ThkU for the detailed experiment TMM, - sure opened my eyes, on the home brew AFT/acetone

Is the SuperTech Lubricant product a WallMart brand ??

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1992 JD 318 original paint w/484 hr. on P218g Onan & #49 snow blower / 1998 JD GT262 w/brand new Kawasaki OHV & 48" rebuilt deck
http://www.mytractorforum.com/showthread.php?t=135838

1986 Toro 824 snowblower, Honda HS624 track drive blower, STIHL 2 stroke F5 85 & F5 35 grass trimmer,
TORO 20526C push mower 21" Recycler w/Suzuki 4 stroke, HONDA CT70 MiniBike & COKE COOLER Chest
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1966 Beaumont Custom original paint,
1967 Beaumont Custom, 1967 Beaumont Custom original paint, 1967 Beaumont 396-350HP Sport Deluxe M21-411's
- SOLD 1970 GTO Judge RAIII, original paint, triple black, # match, 4 speed

 

Is the SuperTech Lubricant product a WallMart brand ??

yes it is. like all the super tech stuff, its a little cheaper but equal to name brand products (IMHO)

 

The info I found most interesting is that ATF and acetone totally separate and stay that way. Makes this potion seem less than useful... Mixing ATF with a petroleum thinner might be a better way to go or maybe just plain 10-30 oil thinned down (with oil of clove for that distinctive industrial gotcha odor.)

I'd like to see a test of engine oil and kerosene or some other petroleum distillate. I've got a squirt oiler with 20wt + Marvel Mystery Oil as the thinner... always seemed to work as well as anything. Beats WD-40 hands down for olefactory appeal.

 

That's some good information. I haven't been all that impressed with PB Blaster but just started using it and didn't really have anything to compare to. It would be interesting to see the same test using the 1/2" material. Thanks for the information.

 

ok....NAPA sell a product....think it's called.....knock-er-loose....comes in a spray can like WD-40...I use this with darn good results.....like on muffeler "U" bolts that r all rusted up....spray it on....couple minutes later twist nut gently till it just stops....spray it again on back side....then retighten the nut...spray again....loosen nut till stops....spray....thghten & keep doin this till nut will come off with out breakin a 5/16 or a 3/8 "U:"bolt

the forcin the nut over all the rust (all the way off the bolt) will build up the rust in the threads & make it get even TIGHTER... eventually breakin the bolt....

by sprayin each time as I described u wash off the freed up rust

P.S. u can reuse the "U" bolts again too

 

I am VERY suprised at the results!!! I have NEVER gotten WD-40 to work for me at all...

 

I use WD-40 by the gallon...

 

Thanks for putting this together!!! I've had good luck with PB, never would have thought it would perform so poorly during your test....

 

It's the shearing part that I question. Are all the bolts the same quality? Most of the bolts now come from China. I have had 5/8 bolts shear with nothing more than a 1/2" ratchet. Maybe a repeat test with all thread. :thanku:

 

I am surprised by the acetone and ATF separation too. I have used the solution with good results in the past, but didn't look for separation.

I read the Wiki article on it here, Wiki Acetone, and learned that we produce it in our own bodies. I didn't know that.

Under the uses section, the article says that it is used as a heavy duty degreaser, but doesn't go into any detail.

 

" in addition to any other magic potions or products that someone might want me to try."

Consumer Report claimed that perhaps one of the first such products, Liquid Wrench, was the best and least expensive.

That said, I have little regard for Consumer Reports opinion.

Walt Conner

 

thanks for the feedback!

i did actually want to try Marvel mystery oil, but didn't feel like buying more bolts. :/ i'll add it to the list of things to try next. do you guys think straight marvel or a mix of marvel and engine oil would work better?

i could try oil and kero or some other distillate. i'd think gasoline would be better, no? it's more of a solvent than kero.

i'll keep an eye out for the "knock-er-loose" product.

that's also a good point on turning the nut over the rust, especially a good point with extremely rusted muffler bolts. with my test, i was more concerned with breaking the nut loose rather than getting it off, and the only times i sheared the bolt was during the initial turning, not after the nut broke free. i also noticed the threads on the ends of some of the bolts were worn down, i assume it's from the rust building up as i turned the nuts.

another thing i should mention is that after the soaking, i only applied an even, slow, steady force with the wrench. no tapping (except to seat the socket over the rusted nut), turning back and forth, etc.

the nuts and bolts were standard grade-2 hardware store 1/4-20's. yea, they're probably made in china and crappy in quality, but that's why i used three per each fluid to obtain more of an average. i have several feet of the 1/2-13 threaded rod, so i may even do 4 or 5 test pieces per fluid.

captndan, what do you mean by "a repeat test with all thread"? you mean the threaded rod?

walt, i believe that the consumer reports article you mentioned is the article that inspired me to do this experiment. i didn't exactly trust them, and apparently for good reason!

EDIT: nope, it was in an edition of "Machinist's Workshop".

tmm

 

Yup, threaded rod. Sorry for the confusion.

 

no problem.

i did some more searching online, and found several things about that MW article that i found odd. firstly, they measure the breaking force for the nuts in pounds. now i'm no professional, but i know that torque can't be measured in pounds! also, i found that the article "might have been wrong" and the ATF "might have been" power steering fluid (which is nearly the same thing...?) and the acetone "might have been" some sort of nasty chemical that i forget the name of.

i also re-discovered this stuff called oil or wintergreen... anyone use this? apparently this is what is in MMO and gives it the distinctive smell.

also found another couple suggestions for ATF/kero mixtures.

tmm

 

I've used about every "penetrating oil" and found few if any,EVER soak into the threads of anything I poured it on after I fuinally got it off..but I still use it anyway..I guess its more a psycological thing than actual reality that penetrants actually DO anything..

On seized engines I have had good results using various fliuds,but on bolts or studs I feel its a waste of time and money using any--HEAT works best and what results in success much more often than oils..

I mix Marvel Mystery Oil and gasoline for a poor mans penetrant,but when I'm really poor I use drain oil & gas or ATF and gas..Acetone,laquer thinner and other solvents are out of my budgets reach!..I tried fingernail polish remover with ATF and I feel it was no better than gas was..the candle wax trick does seem to work when you try it,but I suspect the HEAT had as much to do with loosening the stuck part, as the wax did..

My friend deals with rusted studs and bolts daily at his shop,and he swaers by WD-40,says the other stuff like P-B Blaster tends to ensure the bolt snaps instead of loosening,and Wd-40 seems to work best--for HIM..everyone has their favorite,some swear by "Kroil" or castor oil,vinegar,etc,but I find any home brew to work about as well as any product I wasted 4 bucks on at a store..even plain diesel fuel works pretty good,and I suspect that is all that 80% of these penetration oils are made of..you can buy a gollon of diese for the price of a can of store bought do-nothing spray stuff!..

 

Great experiment. I'm new to PB Blaster. I just tried it because of what I've read on MTF. I only used it on some deck bolts so far, expected better results by the rave reviews. Honestly it didn't seem to work any better for me than WD-40 or even Liquid Wrench.

 

if you do any more tests trying putting some nuts on with anti-seize and see if they come off with nothing going thru the same tests.

 

Really an interesting test and thanks for going to all the trouble. Makes me really glad I bought a gallon of PB awhile back due to the rave reviews I'd seen.

If you decide to do another test I'd suggest using diesel as one of the soaking solutions. I've used it for years to break loose rusted bolts and parts of ancient firearms. I just hang them in a barrel of diesel and check them ever few weeks. Some really badly rusted ones take several months but then these are really fine thread, closely fitted screws that have had years to seize up tight.

Mike

 

I have heard of this stuff called Deep Creep, I think it is made by the same people that make Sea Foam, that is supposed to be phenomenal; but I have not personally tried it yet.

 

CRC Freeze Off - No turning back once you try it.

 

Very interesting and impressive results. Thanks for sharing your findings.

I am a Kroil fan and would like to see how it compares shouldyou do any more testing. As to the ATF home brew, I have tried a brew called Ed's Red (google for info and recipe) and it works very well.

 

Very interesting and impressive results. Thanks for sharing your findings.

I am a Kroil fan and would like to see how it compares shouldyou do any more testing. As to the ATF home brew, I have tried a brew called Ed's Red (google for info and recipe) and it works very well.

Ditto!!! Have used Kroil and Fluid Film for several years, mostly with better results....(Try to get it on sale or from sales man..../)

interresting thread.......:thanku:

glenn

 

I dont see how that "freeze-off" stuff works,I would think freezing a part like a nut,would only shrink it, and make it even harder to remove--or the bolt more likely to snap off!...also the price of that stuff is way too high,I can fill my oxogen tank for the price of two cans of that stuff and loosen litteraly hundreds of stuck bolts & nuts with it..

 

It's only $4 a can!

The freezing cracks the rust, and pulls the penetrating oil in using capillary action.

 

I would like to see a set of bolts run thru a electrolysis tank during the next test with no "loosening agents".

 

flhusa, you read my mind about the anti-seize. i figure i'll rust the all-thread and nut separately as before, clean them off a bit as if i wanted to use an old rusty nut and bolt, and put them together with anti-seize. if/when i do another experiment, i will do this.

i heard about Deep Creep, i will try it. i've never used any of sea foam's products.

i hope diesel works well! i have an old Browning A5 shotgun soaking in it in an attempt to loosen it up.

just researched ed's red, looks interesting. i'll try it.

and don't you know, i just finished making an electrolysis tank! i'll try that too. i suspect it will only clean the surface, though, and not penetrate at all.

so, for my next test, i'll try:

ed's red
crc freeze-off
kroil
electrolysis
deep creep
anti-seize applied pre-rust
marvel mystery oil, (straight, mixed with...?)
heat applied with torch?
oil of wintergreen? (straight or mixed with...?)
diesel?
and a repeat of:
WD-40
ST "Lubricant"
PB blaster
maybe an ATF/kero or ATF/gas mix? since ATF/acetone don't mix i won't re-try it.

anything else? and, any insight on the oil of wintergreen stuff? i've heard a couple drops will unseize something in a hurry. i'm intrigued.

tmm

 

anything else? and, any insight on the oil of wintergreen stuff? i've heard a couple drops will unseize something in a hurry. i'm intrigued.

Give CRC 5-56 a try. We used to use a LOT of it in the shop. Always had better luck with it than WD-40. Lately I've had good luck with Marvel Mystery's penetrant.

Wintergreen oil essence is really pricey- way, way beyond Freeze-off. We had a guy who was restoring a '30 Packard Business coupe and he was a chemist for an outfit that manufactured different extracts like that. He used some of the low-quality stuff as penetrant on the Packard; said it worked fantastic if you gave it a little time. But it was worth $150 an OUNCE. And that was in 1973 dollars.

 

my can of "knock-er-loose" is almost empty here.....will stop at NAPA & get a new one....take a pic of it & post it so u know wat to look for ....hope u buy if u can & try it too.....