Ok, a few more basic questions:

When it does start, are you saying you have to use full choke to keep it running? IOW, you back off the choke a little and it just quits? If you stick the choke back on before it spins down, does it catch again?

You said it started a couple of times out of 30 attempts. What happened the rest of the time? Sounds like it just cranked a bunch, but didn't catch? Maybe a few coughs?

A few things:

If you haven't already, take a look at www.oldgravelys.net There's all sorts of great info there, including operator manuals for your tractor.

It's not good to just crank ad nauseum, as it's hard on the starter. Gravely recommended cranking for no more than 15 sec and letting it cool for 30. I will confess I have sometimes exceeded those limits, but it's worth keeping in mind

For starting, I recommend no more than about 1/4 throttle. Others will differ on that point, but that's what works for me. You also probably don't need full choke. On my 812, which has a very similar engine to your 432, I use throttle bumped up from idle a bit, and about 2/3 choke, and it lights right up.

It sounds like your compression is good, and ignition is working. It also sounds like you may have some kind of crap clogging up the carb, or at least it's badly out of tune. I recommend that you put fresh fuel in it, and set up the carb per http://www.oldgravelys.net/pdf/424_430_432_450_Serv_Man_0972.pdf If that doesn't work, you may need to pull the carb apart and clean it out.

Good luck, and keep us posted as to your progress!

 

That is one great looking tractor!

I can't add anything to what JRD has said and I agree completely.

 

whoops, I just posted on your intro thread. From what you've just posted, I'd go with what jrd said. I'd still check the carb.fuel bowl though. It may be full of crud.
Great looking tractor, and I see that it has the old Gravely 2 piece wheel weights too.

Just looking at your pic again. I have the same blower. I noticed that your driftcutters are reversed. The left one should be on the right side and visa versa. They should be mounted against the inside of the reel housing with the flared edge facing forward and outward.

 

... just wanted to add that I would still also remove both mixture needles, spray a little carb. cleaner in the bores, the throat, and re-install the needles, screwing them all of the way in, but ONLY (Important) to the point that you feel them seat. Then back the run needle out 2 turns, the idle needle 1 1/4 turns. Try starting.
If you get it running, you can then adjust the 2 mixture needles.
If you have a Kohler carb., the idle mixture is the lower needle, and the run mixture (high rpm) is on top.
If you have a Walbro carb., the order is reversed. The easy clue in I.D.ing the Walbro is the Run needle screw head. The run needle head (lower of the 2 on the carb.) is MUCH smaller then the idle needle head.

And just for the heck of it, have you checked/adjusted the gap on your points? They should be .020 in. in the open position.

 

Mine although a Briggs if I move the throttle or choke will not start if I leave the throttle in the idle and choke off it starts everytime. I know its sounds strange but it works!!!

 

Welcome Julison. Nice looking setup you have . I have a 430, 12hp, that is also tricky to start. What i do is I give it full chock and no throttle turn the key and it catches right away and turns really slow then I let it stay like that for about 5 seconds then very slowly I give it throttle to about 1/4 throttle and let it warm up a little, about 15 seconds, then start to back down the choke while I listen to it so that it runs smooth. If I back the choke too fast it will stall. It takes about two minutes at 30* like that before the chock is off all the way. Also make sure you have a good strong battery. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

I'm having the same starting issues with my recently acquired 812. I follow the same start up procedure you are using, which works great on my C10A. I suspect my carb is the culprit, although I expected that ether spray would overcome the starting problems, it doesn't seem to.

Anyway, you are not alone, and that tractor looks GREAT! Once you get beyond this "little" starting issue, you will love the way it moves snow.

I learned a long time ago to check (bare hand to the engine) if the prior owner had recently run the engine when looking at any kind of gas-engined equipment. I like to know what it will do when starting from dead cold. I've been surprised a few times when getting a piece of equipment home and finding it won't start for me.

Good luck with it - :ditto: the suggestions made earlier.

 

Definitely a carb issue. These carbs are cake to remove and take apart. Guarantee she'll start and run fine after a quick rebuild.

Lastly, someone installed the drift cutters incorrectly. Swap your left cutter out with your right one and make sure the curved part faces out.

 

Mark is right, Rebuild the Carb via a kit from NAPA. Just give the engine specs and you should be in business!

 

I have to just pull the choke with no throttle and she fires up too.I know mine acted up a few times until it wouldn't start.found out the wire going to the coil was shorting out on the seat.It had great fire when seat was up which was stumping me.I do agree with the others,rebuild the carb and throw in a new float.

 

Recommend you try half throttle (or less) and full choke, depending upon your climate and temps. Choke should not be necessary at all if your carb. is cleaned and in adjustment and the ambient temps. are > 32 F. I have a 424 and can start it in the coldest temps. with no choke and throttle on idle. The k241 is the least tempermental engine I own. Take it to half choke while warming up and finally no choke.

If you don't feel like getting into a carb. rebuild and worrying about getting the needles just right (and potentially damaging them), try just removing the air cleaner housing. Replace air cleaner and prefilter if dirty. Verify throttle and choke plates are adjusted and working properly via the cables. Attempt to start with cover off. On a successful start, shoot some carb. cleaner into the intake and let it cough it out when running slightly above idle. Could be your carb.'s idle screw is out of adjustment.

To do it right, disassemble, clean and rebuild the carb with a new gasket kit. Adjust the needles according to the manual and I like to put a digital tach. on the flywheel for final RPM tuning.

 

Will do on the carb cleaner idea. I used to be good at automotive work ~20yrs ago but have been completely away from it since then. However, I do remember cleaning the float, needle valves, seats and other back then, so I think I will try to do this on my own...Anyone out there live in ontario, canada and have a good parts source?

 

how long did you let it run with choke? and how well did it run with choke?

 

Hi,

It only required choke for 30 seconds - as the RPMs seemed low, with the choke off it revved up nicely and runs well...other than the one time it ran away down our 11 degree driveway, scary - I'll have to figure out how to manage that once I get it started again (one problem at a time).

thanks all,

Julison

 

Also a weak spark floods out very easy...

 

Next time you try to start it, remove the plug and add some oil to the cylinder. This will raise the compression and facilitate starting. If the engine runs OK once you get it going, check the valve clearance. If it is too tight, it will make the compression release too effective, making the engine hard to start. It has to start firing on the compression release before the engine will turn fast enough to disable the CR.

 

Julison,:Welcome:. Glad you got it running. As per the previous threads' advice, a good carb cleaning should get her to start alot easier. Good luck.

By the way, beautiful rig there. Looks like you did very well!!

 

Hi,

So here is a good news/ bad news / bad news story.
The guy that I bought the 432 from was kind enough to pick up the tractor and bring it home to fix it. Turns out the points and the condenser were fried. Apparently, if you accidently leave the key in the on position it will energize the points/condenser and depending on whether the points are fully open / closed or part open - it can either have no effect / drain the battery or fry the points. At any rate, the tractor was returned and I waited patiently for a decent snow fall. That was the good news part.

Bad news #1:
Finally 20cm of snow and I couldn't wait to get home from work and chuck some snow. 9:00pm, I finally get the kids to bed and get get out and on the tractor. Starts beautifully. I start to blow the snow and I notice the stuff is piling up in front of the blower. I get off and see the auger isn't turning...the blower part is flying though. I shut it down and clear the snow out, move the auger and the PTO, Blower and the auger all move in unison..hmmm.
I start it up and check again - auger is moving fine. Start to blow and it stops. I bring back to the garage and shovel the driveway for 2 hrs.

This last saturday, I take apart the blower gear box and the gear on the PTO is fine but the one on the auger is worn away for 1/3 of the diameter.

I can't fix that right away and more snow is coming, so I hook up the blade on the front so I can at least plow.

Bad news #2: XXXX thing won't start...it is not even cold! I check the spark - plenty. I continue to try various choke / throttle cominations - no luck. Then all of a sudden it will not turn over. There is only a loud metallic click coming from up under the ignition area. The thing clicking looks like a relay of some sort. What do you think is wrong?

P.S: Any chance of getting parts still for the snowblower?

thanks in advance,

 

sounds like the starter solenoid is either bad overheated or coroded connection! I would first try to clean the connections and tighten them!

 

Julison,

Your blower looks like an MA210. You should go to oldgravelys.net and download an instruction manual and IPL for it (from the snow removal section). The MA210 has reel clutches that are adjusted with the large nut on the left end of the reel (as viewed from operator's position). The clutches could be set too loose and could be slipping under load. The MA210s also had a splined coupling or double u-joint that connects the fan shaft to the gearbox shaft. If your's has the coupling, the coupling splines couild be worn out (happened to my MA210).

For parts, my favorite supplier is Richard's Lawn & Garden in Spencer, West Virginia. He discounts Gravely parts and ships everywhere. See below for contact info for Richard's and others (I'm not sure that Antram's is still in bussiness).

Richard & Cais Juftes
Richard's Lawn & Garden
130 Main Street
Spencer, WV 25276
800-827-4551 or 304-927-4550
http://www.Gravelyparts.com

Dave Antram & Larry Wright
Antram Enterprises
Sommerset, PA
800-324-6842 or 814-443-6468

BALL SALES & SERVICE
Mr. Ray Ball
Morgan Rd
Marcy, NY 13403-0000
P: 315-724-0994


Used Gravely Parts:

Bill Gardner
6112 National Pike East
Grindstone, PA 15442-1108
Ebay user name: wsg3
Website: www.usedgravelys.com
Wsg3@hotmail.com


Good Luck,
George

 

Julison DON'T GIVE UP! These machines just take time to get to know! I'm nearly certain your solenoid needs replacement as this has happened a few times to my Kohler engine. I have a walk behind. Seems to happen after I've operated it in a wet environment. Good news is you can go to any auto parts store here and as for a 12 volt solenoid. Usually they are about $12-15 US. Or you could as the others suggest just take the solenoid off and clean all the places is makes contact with the big red positive battery cable. By the way a good test to see if the solenoid is acting up is to take a automotive jumper cable and connect the positive post of the battery and the positive post on the starter motor. If it turns over your solenoid is either bad or needs replacing.

I have an MA210 snow blower that just did the same thing yours did. I've not gotten into it yet but I'm pretty sure it needs a clutch adjustment. Mark can you chime in here? Do you need to partially disassemble the front of the blower to get at those large nuts on the ends of the reels? Those are the ones that need a tightening! Regarding the gearbox I'm actually going to venture a guess that it's OK. The ring gear on the reel shaft should be cupped a bit but it shouldn't look like the one in this post!

http://www.mytractorforum.com/showthread.php?t=172154

Ditto on George's recommendations for parts. In fact if you follow the above post you'll see that Richard's has the clutches for the reels at $9.00 US each!

Hang in there!

Nate

 

Bummer, that worn ring gear looks very similar to mine.
I will try to find some parts here in Canada and save on customs fees.

Has anyone tried to rebuild a worn ring gear via a weld and file method?

 

I have an MA210 snow blower that just did the same thing yours did. I've not gotten into it yet but I'm pretty sure it needs a clutch adjustment. Mark can you chime in here? Do you need to partially disassemble the front of the blower to get at those large nuts on the ends of the reels?

No disassembly needed to adjust the large nuts on the ends of the reels. I've done it many times on my MA211. A pair of large Crescent wrenches helps. I also use a 2x4 to block the rotation of the auger.

 

As tracktor312 wrote, the clicking noise is the starter solenoid. The fact that it's clicking makes me think it's working.
I had the same problem on the 430 once. The solenoid was closing (clicking), but the starter did'nt budge. I had power at the starter terminal. It turned out to be that the common ground between the starter and the engine was lost. I removed the starter, wire wheeled the contact areas of the starter and engine, wire wheeled the mounting bolts, and re-bolted the starter to the motor. It worked fine after that.
Before you remove the starter, just check to see if the starter motor gear happens to be stuck engaged with the flywheel (extended position on the starter shaft). If it is, you'll experience the same closing of the solenoid, but the starter won't be able to run.

 

Maybe just a little off-topic, but what do you guys recommend for cleaning the jets on a Kohler/Walbro carburetor?

I was thinking maybe of some sort of a can of pressurized air, with a skinny "straw" thingamabob that the air would shoot out of?

And do they make stuff like that with cleaning compounds?

Thanks.

PS: Lots of technical stuff on carburetors here:

http://gardentractorpullingtips.com/carbfuel.htm

 

I only have one thing to add as everyone has had really good suggestions. Kohler starters remind me of old gear reduction Chrysler starters in one way. If the starter is drawing too much power, the spark isn't hot enough to start the machine. I've run into that quite a few times on my kohlers. As recent as last week as a matter of fact.

 

sometimes my 430 is a pain to start it wont start cold WOT i usualy full choke and no throttle and usualy goes. but sometimes i will turn the key as described above and it will fire once turn the key again and repeat the process like 8 more times than it runs, but man its a pain.

 

Okay, Here is an update on my Hard to start Gravely 432. After a summer of instant starts and lots of fun using the grader blade and lawnmower the cold weather has arrived. So, today when I tried to start it and it was back to the same old, same old cold weather no start behaviour.

Surely this type of behaviour must be characteristic of some carb or ignition weakness - do you think the cold is driving the cranking amps down and this somehow affects the spark? It turns over plenty though???

Any help would be appreciated as it will get a whole lot cooler soon (it was only -3C last night).

thanks all,

 

How old is the battery? Just because it cranks good does not mean it has the voltage for good ignition operation.

This fits with the seasonal nature of your problem.

Sheldon

 

Sometimes one has to take a step back and start again. When I have a hard to start engine and am at a loss I make sure I have everything needed for the engine to run.

1 - fuel
2 - air
3 - compression
4 - spark and at the right time.

Since it seems that the cooler weather makes it hard to start, I would check the quality of spark and the compression and the quantity of fuel.

Are you certain you are getting enough fuel? Any cracked or old fuel lines? What happens of you squirt some fuel into the throat of the carb? One or two squirts from an oil can filled with gasoline should be enough to fire it. Do this at 1/2 throttle, not full.

Richard - who has started engines without a carb attached and supplied fuel to the engine by using an oil can filled with gasoline.