Welcome aboard Arlie, saw your post over in the Kubota section.
What is wrong w/the OEM valve? They are rebuildable. Does Kubota still have a kit for it?
For the most part the OEM valves are pretty good. I'm going to guess that either you've probably priced an OEM and are looking for a better deal or it's not available anymore correct?
We had a member that recently added a single spool valve to control his front blade in this thread: http://www.mytractorforum.com/showthread.php?t=161693
and he's thinking of fab'ing up an FEL later on which will require a different valve, one that would be similar to what your looking at. Perhaps you two can help each other out
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
We enjoy tractor projects around these parts, including pics
Dave

 

I agree with Volfandt regarding repairing the old valve. Usually they can be resealed and put back into use. You might want to take the old valve to a hydraulic repair shop in your area and see what they think. Most valves use standard sized seals and o-rings and you may find that a competent repair shop can recondition your valve quickly and at a fraction of the price of a new one. If for some reason your valve is not repairable they could probably also give you information regarding spec'ing out a new one.

Good luck!

JN

 

:ditto: to the above comments.

One question is "Why do you want regeneration?".

A second question is "What do you mean by hose orientation?".

For my thinking on the second question: There are basically 6 ports on a 2 spool valve (7 with power beyond), and they are usually labelled (cast in the body) P, T, A and B. The Pressure port connects to the pump. The Tank port connects to the reservoir. The A and B ports are the work ports for the cylinders, one A and one B in line with each other for each cylinder or set of cylinders that the spool controls (A1/B1 and A2/B2). Which spool controls which cylinder or set of cylinders is usually set up with the left controlling the boom lift and the right controlling the bucket tilt when you are facing the joystick.

Those Brand diagrams can be confusing to the uninitiated, it took me a couple of minutes to sort them out. Mostly an orientation thing with 4 views of one item rotated 90* for each view.

Label the hoses before removing them, switch fittings from one valve set to the other, switch valve sets and hook them up the same way. There will be no other way to do it and have it work right. Float and regeneration circuits are internal to the valve, not external.

 

Thanks for the replies.

The linkage on my valve is worn out (very sloppy). The float detent does not hold. The valve leaks internally.

The dealer does not have a kit. The valve without linkage is almost $800.00:Stop: individual parts for rebuild may be available. I prefer to replace the unit.

My understanding is the valves must be installed in a specific orientation so handle movement will be correct. Float detent with north movement, bucket tip forward with east movement, regeneration at the end of east travel. That is why they make 4 versions.

My valve sits horizontal with hoses up. As far as I can tell the Brand units at NT and SC mount vertical but I'm not 100% sure. I could build a vertical mount but prefer not to and certainly not without knowing for sure how they mount.

Regeneration is not a big deal to me but would be a nice upgrade that allows faster bucket tip over. I notice my B7610 has it.

I think I will be able to order from Brand from a local hydraulic shop.

I had my wife take vid of blowing with the B7610 today so I can humor the folks here if I can figure out how to post.

Try this. L

Arlie

 

My understanding is the valves must be installed in a specific orientation so handle movement will be correct. Float detent with north movement, bucket tip forward with east movement, regeneration at the end of east travel. That is why they make 4 versions.

My valve sits horizontal with hoses up. As far as I can tell the Brand units at NT and SC mount vertical but I'm not 100% sure. I could build a vertical mount but prefer not to and certainly not without knowing for sure how they mount.

Arlie

The 4 versions are actually only 2 different spool configurations of the valve in 4 different orientations. The joystick itself is also in only 2 different orientations. In any event it is changeable by the user as are the spools. You should be able buy any one of those valves and change it yourself to the version that suits your need. If the one I needed wasn't in stock, that's what I would do. (Retired millwright talking here.) For instance, A1B only requires that the joystick be dismounted, rotated 180* and reinstalled to get your A3B, while AB requires that the spools be switched. A2B needs both joystick and spools changed.

The A3B is the one you want and the hoses should be a straight swap from the old one to the new. But you already had that figured out anyway. Just confirming. :fing32:

If it will help, you can put a 15*- 30* bend in the handle to make it work better for you in your horizontal application. I don't recommend a sharper bend, too much stress on the joystick mechanism. Loosen the locknut and unscrew the handle, bend it, and scew it back in so the handle points up and tighten the locknut. If you have the correct die to make new threads, you can also shorten the handle, although I wouldn't get carried away with that idea.

I hope I'm not confusing you. :sorry1:

 

Second try.

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g350/Esau9/0c6fdb02.mp4

Very wet snow/slush. Poor B1550 in background waiting for valve. Power jump from B1550 to B7610 is substantial. Transition to hydrostatic - priceless

Arlie

 

No confusion at all. Makes perfect sense. I'm guessing you have looked at these units to know the joystick position can be changed by the user. I had thought maybe, but no way to know by looking at the drawings. Very possible they could have different linkage parts.

I suppose the Brand rep would be able to tell me this (if I could talk to one). Kinda pathetic that the "sales specialist" at NT has no clue. The local hydraulic shop who sell Brand also did not know this.

Anyway, that's a valuable tidbit that should save me the extra cost of special ordering, and the extra time involved. :thanku:


Arlie

 

Never seen those valves before. Just going by previous experience and common sense. No manufacturer is going to tool up 4 times for a series of items that to all intents and purposes are identical and have several interchangeable components listed as options. They list 3 different spools as options, and if you talked to them nicely, they probably have a couple more available that will fit in the same valve body. Any of these spools will fit either side of the body. For it to be otherwise, tooling costs would drive the price out of sight.

Same thing for the joystick. It's doing the same job in either position only with its centerline offset to the right or left of the valve body centerline. I'm surprised that they don't offer the 90* stick as an option. I'm pretty sure that several other manufacturers do.

Machining tolerances on hydraulic components are tight, but actually working on those components is simpler, for the most part, than working on a small engine's carburetor, for me anyway, with my dry as dust, thick skinned finger tips.

 

I usually do OK with the common sense department although my wife may differ She'd say I'm crazy about things like fishing and hockey. :fing32:

My mechanical background is fair - aircraft maintenance, logging, some carpentry, and skills in the use of binder twine and bailing wire (farming). I joke about the farming but actually I learned a great deal from the farmer I worked for in my teens. He was a brilliant mechanic.

Millwright work I guess would be like the real "jack of all trades" at a higher level. Much appreciated.

Arlie

 

Jack of all trades, master of none. Yup, that's us.

I was a millwright in a steel mill. Millwright = sledge hammer mechanic.

If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer. The biggest hammer that I used weighed 150 tons. :Stop:

Man, my arms were tired. :ROF

We had a newby crane operator and I had to signal every move to him. Changed arms for signalling several times just to give the one arm a break. It was a looonnng job with a sloooowww operator. :banghead3

With my regular operator it would have been a 2 minute job and only 2 signals, "Hit it!" and "Stop!".

 

There's more to this story. Now it's a saga.

I spoke first with a technician at the Brand factory and was told I could change to A3B with a different mounting plate I could purchase. So I got the valve and plate, made the swap, and discovered the spools, are now reversed left to right. Up/Down handle movement moves left spool, Right/Left moves right spool. The spools have different functions. U/D has float detent, R/L has regeneration. Does not work to have them reversed. Nothing was said by the tech about this.

So I removed the spools and swapped sides thinking I can outsmart this problem. Not a hard job. Install on tractor. Ooops - now the function is strange - movements only with both valves partly actuated :banghead3

I went to the online diagrams and noted there seems to be some difference in the valve body side to side. So next day I talk to the tech again - after a long pause he comes back and says they make two valve bodies and agrees to trade me for the one that will work in my orientation. I pay for the shipping.

After a week or so I get it back and install it. Now nothing moves. :banghead3

I'm frustrated at this point so I leave it alone for a few days. I test pressure coming from the tractor - 1700 psi. Test at a loader hose - zero. I'm scratching my head (bald spot now) :fing20: and the only thing I can think of is the relief part of the valve is malfunctioning. I took it apart - seems odd, there's no spring tension and the spring sits on what looks like a seat, but there's nothing to close the seat.

Back to calling Brand. A different tech confirms the relief is missing the poppet valve. This time they paid shipping but at no time did anyone offer any kind of apology for the mistakes.

I put the part in and everything works now. raying:
It only took a couple months.

The take home message:
Brand Hydraulics - amazing ignorance of their own product.
Northern Tool - all questions are deferred to Brand Hydraulics.

Here's a few pics.

The Brand valve with conversion bracket.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g350/Esau9/a33c0ddc.png

The original Kubota on the left, Brand on the right.
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g350/Esau9/ce529357.png

The mod to the mounting plate. Slot is original. Tab welded on lower right and holes drilled. One original hole was used (hidden under hose upper left).
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g350/Esau9/loadervalvemount.jpg

Installed on tractor (lever bent after heating with torch).
http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g350/Esau9/installedvalve.jpg

BTW, if you do this project, the O-ring base to JIC fittings for hoses are a larger size in the Brand valve. Those were the only fittings I required.

 

Wow!!!

:sorry1: if I led you down the garden path on what should have been a simple replacement. I definitely understand the frustration level on a project that should really be pretty simple. It's too bad the service department wasn't more "up" on their own equipment. Maybe a little note describing your tials and tribulations to customer service might get them some training on their own product, or at least an apology.

:thanku: for the update. Forewarned etc., etc.

 

I checked with Brand before purchasing anything so, no need for apologies.

Perhaps I'll send them a link to this thread. I'm sure they have decent and competent people there that would like to know.

There's some saying about things that don't kill you making you stronger. Maybe I'm stronger. I'll just go with that. :fing32:

Arlie