Is the hub splined? or is it a key way? May be simple enough that you sheared a key way off on the axle.

Do you have the model number that can tell use exactly what hydro you have?

djl

 

There's dozens of different hydro models on Sears tractors.
What's the number under the seat?
https://www.mytractorforum.com/14-c...om/14-craftsman-sears-forum/1095242-new-posters-please-read-before-posting.html

 

Tractor: 917-258911

Hydro Gear 218-3010

Original HG assy part number should be 150073 which supersedes 114043 and was superseded by 163198. As Husgvarna now owns AYP, they list it as 532114043 and claim that I can buy one new in the box for $1500. Yeah, that option is way down the list but would be interesting to see if I can actually order one.

 

If the transaxle has an open differential,then it is normal for the tire with the least resistance to spin if the other is held still..

The "bang" does sound like something "bad" broke internally though..

My experience with hydrostats that have high hours and start "slipping" when hot,are usually roached,the pump and internal guts and the case all get scored and eventually "leak" enough pressure to prevent any power being transmitted...

I'd just try to get a good used one,or new,if you dont mind the price..
You could gut the thing and maybe get lucky and find it is just a broken coupling or something inside,but I wouldn't get my hopes too high..

 

It's definitely an open diff so drive torque switching sides doesn't surprise. The noteworthy symptom there is how little effort I had to exert with my hand to stop the side that was spinning. As in: not that much power coming though the pump / axle. As in: only enough power to spin the wheels when they're off the ground.

The bang may have been more of a snap and may have been the one axle mounting bolt breaking. Dunno for sure, but there was a definite feeling like something just plain disconnected in the way that it stopped. Pulling fine one second, dead stop the next.

That's kinda the bit I don't get. Broken enough that it free wheels with the bypass valve in drive mode but connected enough that it will spin the wheels fwd, rev and diff side to side. Does that sound more like really low pressure from the pump? Something in that bypass circuit that popped open?

Have a line on a used one with "only" 800 hrs to get me through the cutting season and this one is getting torn apart either way.

 

Looking at the breakdown in the Owners Manual, it appears there are a couple parts that might break without destroying the transmission.

I'd check axle key and the axle itself.
The axle comes in an "Assembly". I see a used one on Ebay for $60.
I just Googled-
AYP 142877

 

Looking at the breakdown in the Owners Manual, it appears there are a couple parts that might break without destroying the transmission.

I'd be interested in that list - and some of the theory behind it.

I'd check axle key and the axle itself.
The axle comes in an "Assembly". I see a used one on Ebay for $60.
I just Googled-
AYP 142877

The only key I see is between the axle and wheel hub. If it was slipping there, the parking brake wouldn't keep the tractor from rolling (which it does).

If I extend that theory and "assume" that everything from the brake shaft to the wheels is connected enough that the brake locks the wheels, then it should be connected enough to drive the wheels. The conclusion being that the fail has to be upstream in the pump.

 

Sorry for your loss... :-(

I have lost one HYDROSTATIC Unit, and have swore on the Peerless 3-Hi/Low since.

I even have a "spare" that I have "sortof" rebuilt, but can't really find the correct destination for parts & literature for.

I hope this "potential" one with ~800+ hours works for ya...

Happy Tractoring!

-Thomas (12)
Port Orchard, Washington

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

Parking brake only works on one axle. If the other side was messed up....

 

Drive wheels off the ground, bypass valve in drive position:

Parking brake on: spin one wheel, opposite side spins opposite direction. Try to spin both in same direction, they both lock. Not able to hold one in place and spin the other. I'm thinking that means the wheel hub is turning the axle, key in place and everything connected through the axle / diff / reduction up the brake shaft.

Parking brake off: spin one wheel either direction, other side does noting, noticeable noise coming from center of axle. Basic mechanical rattling like ball bearings rolling around. Spin both wheels in same direction and it gets twice as loud. Spin each wheel in opposite directions and it goes away entirely. Thinking that's kinda normal too - either wheel spinning rotates gear drive thru diff, both in opposite directions and the input side of the diff should be stationary.

Drive wheels off the ground, bypass valve in transport position:

same tests, same results.

My theory here is that the pump is in bypass mode regardless of where that valve is. Hole in that is how I got it to drive the wheels when they were off the ground. That would make me think check valves, maybe. More likely one of the pumps not putting out enough pressure / not holding off reverse pressure.

 

Drive wheels off the ground, bypass valve in drive position:

Parking brake on: spin one wheel, opposite side spins opposite direction. Try to spin both in same direction, they both lock. Not able to hold one in place and spin the other. I'm thinking that means the wheel hub is turning the axle, key in place and everything connected through the axle / diff / reduction up the brake shaft.

Parking brake off: spin one wheel either direction, other side does noting, noticeable noise coming from center of axle. Basic mechanical rattling like ball bearings rolling around. Spin both wheels in same direction and it gets twice as loud. Spin each wheel in opposite directions and it goes away entirely. Thinking that's kinda normal too - either wheel spinning rotates gear drive thru diff, both in opposite directions and the input side of the diff should be stationary.

Drive wheels off the ground, bypass valve in transport position:

same tests, same results.

My theory here is that the pump is in bypass mode regardless of where that valve is. Hole in that is how I got it to drive the wheels when they were off the ground. That would make me think check valves, maybe. More likely one of the pumps not putting out enough pressure / not holding off reverse pressure.

Friction between broken parts can drive the rear wheels with no load. I've had the key fail in a hydraulic pump and it would still lift the loader bucket. Throw a shovel full of dirt in the bucket and it was done for the day until the key was replaced.

Your testing indicates failure in the final drive gear train. Parking brakes are normally mounted on an intermediate shaft that uses gear reduction to increase rear axle torque. The flip side is that it takes substantial force at the rear wheels to get the same braking force. If it was a hydro failure, valves or otherwise, you wouldn't hear increased noises in the center of the axle.

 

If it's a Tuff Torq yes it can be repaired but deere doesn't sell parts, will need to contact TT directly. I think deere just replaces units due to Time/cost factor and warrantee afterwards. T called them when I had a x300 with a k46 I thought was going out. They were quite helpfull and free with I formation. The K46 is considered non servacable sealed tranny by deere.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

 

Oops didnt realise you were not in the John Deere forem. My bad, but maybe my post will help someone.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

 

Perhaps way off in yonder field... I have had a Snapper shear the pin that connects axle to wheel hub. It seemed to lose power, and did not want to climb slight inclines. I steered it the 'long way' back to the garage and checked. The drive pin was sheared, and it was only friction that got enough power through to carry me home...
Point being that friction will make the rear wheels turn, but put a load on it and you'll get slippage if not complete lack of power transfer. Seems worthwhile to me to check that before assuming the worst. I did not analyze the above testing.
I know that some of these hydros have a drive chain that could also snap internally. It may or may not flop around and jam the works completely, or it could (lucky for someone) fall to the bottom and stay out of the way.
I think the only way a hydro could go out with a bang is the chain, the key, or a key on the pump or motor shaft shearing.
I also would take it apart, even if non-repairable. If you are good, and can find parts, they can be repaired successfully. If you do, don't go whole hog on the sealant when slapping the case halves back together. Too much goo is not a good thing. Whatever you put there will be squashed out to almost paper-thin, so it does not take a lot. Pay attention also to where sealant is used, and where not. Some of them have 'internal' spots that are sealed, I think those that have separate differential case areas. The real thought here is to pay attention to where you have to remove old sealant and match that.
tom

 

In the drawing part number 16 is known to go out often in this particular transaxle.
One end goes to the brake disk. Other end is hollow with splines inside.
The splines on the inside of the shaft ware off, brake off. That might explain why you can still turn wheels with the brake locked.

Some where on MTF there is a thread about replacing this shaft with pictures if you can find it. I could not. Hope the poster did not use photo bucket.

 

Potentially relevant detail here: my brake disk does hold the wheels from spinning when I try to spin them in the same direction. aka will keep the tractor from rolling when the brake is on.

I recall seeing a thread or two about this a couple months back when I joined this site. Was able to track down one of them where the initial fail symptom sounds identical to mine, fix ended up being the brake shaft, picture links broken:

https://www.mytractorforum.com/14-craftsman-sears-forum/18149-hydro-gear-trans-busted.html

Found another one talking about the fix without getting in to the fail that has working pictures:

https://www.mytractorforum.com/14-craftsman-sears-forum/209998-hydro-gear-help.html

The interesting bit is that both talk about a coupler between the pump and the brake shaft that is the actual culprit. My diagram doesn't show that piece but I can imagine it being part of part #16. All this is really making me wish I just ripped the thing apart blindly looking for obvious damage instead of trying to figure out how the whole thing works and what might have gone bad. All I'm gonna say is I have a bad cold and virtual wrenching seemed easier in the moment.

Some actual wrenching to follow.

 

I love craigs list: The day after mine blew up, an ad was posted for a similar tractor. Turns out to be identical model number and is currently in the back in my pick up. Starts, runs, drives, cuts but is more of a donor than a project.

It was probably in better shape than mine when the seller bought it a couple years ago - leaving it outside all year didn't do it any favors. The amp gauge "fell" out of the dash, seller says a mouse chewed through one of the plug wires but he's got it taped up. The big ugly that made him give up on it is something wrong with either the stator, regulator or a connection because it won't charge the battery.

On the upside, the dead-ish battery is less than a year old. The drive belt and both deck belts are new. The blades are new, the deck is in great shape (had to replace mine). That stuff alone adds up to almost the $150 I paid, never mind that's almost what a used hydro sitting on a shelf would cost.

The plan for tomorrow is to harvest the rear and put it in my tractor. Shows some signs of wear but works and should get me through the month of so of cutting left this year. Hey, has 300 less hours and pretty unlikely that its's spent those hours dragging the weight of (2) tow mowers around so should have $100 worth of life still in it.

Right after I get that done, it's tear down my blown one and find out what's really broken. I think the big problem here will be keeping myself from fixing the rest of the stuff that's wrong with this thing after I use it to test my transaxle repair.

 

Sometimes it is hard to put one down. "Just a new thisthat or one of the multiple used thatthises will make this baby run like new." 'cept that you do not need a second machine, it takes up space, the spouse wants it GONE, now! or sooner. But she will refrain from saying a lot, knowing if she does, things will grow stubborn...
When something is designated a 'parts machine', then decide. What parts are good to keep, and what should be turned into razor blades(used to was, CV's, BBs, CGs...). Fasteners can all go into a coffee can(well no longer as it does not come in cans) or plastic, rods & blades can be tucked into a shipping tube or longish waste basket, but the big parts? They have to hang on the wall, or go over the rafters in the garage or ???
I got a freeby. Fixed up the tires that were maypops(cracked sidewall) using tubes, new belt, battery, clean carb & fuel tank, adjust valves, etc. Sold it. But with minimal investment. Could have gotten more for the parts, but wifey was GLAD. So, happy life.
tom

 

I've had a few cars that contributed to my stash of spare parts on their way to becoming something else made out of metal so I get the concept. One of them I wish I had kept but oh well. All my daily drivers are 40ish yrs old and having more than one has come in handy a couple times and I'm starting to have that mindset when it comes to my 20 yr old mower. see also: I like this one and don't want to try finding something else that might be able to handle my 3 wide set up. Right now the best justification I have for having a 2nd tractor is the 2 or 3 times a year I get stuck in a mud hole that I should have known better than to drive in to - again. Ok, maybe the better one is the expectation of more transaxle fails in my future.

For example: I can roll the donor I just picked up with the bypass valve in the drive position. Only in one direction, but shouldn't be able to do that at all. I'm trying my best to gloss over that until I autopsy my blown one. It also has what appears to be the original filter on it so another case of believing the manual that says "no service required".

So anyway, unloaded it yesterday and my intellectual curiosity got the better of me on the way to taking it apart. Poked around at the battery charging problem and pretty sure I fixed that. While in the middle of harvesting the rear that I bought if for, I took 15 minutes to fix the drive belt tensioner that was annoyance during the test drive. If I know how my compulsions work, I'm pretty sure I'm gonna end up looking at the carb when using the thing to test my hydro repair. If (ok, when) I fix that, I'm only one flat front tire away from something I can jump on when I need it.

I also hate craigs list: another identical high hours tractor popped up yesterday and priced below market. As with my cars, I see the problem mostly as a critical lack of garages.

 

Yeah,you do tend to run out of room fast,with so many "repairables" available on craigslist..

More than one "parts tractor" I bought cheap or hauled away for free,has ended up in the fleet as a working unit..a few had less issues than the one I got the parts tractor for,so I fixed that one instead!..and waited to find the part the other tractor still needed,usually I'd come across a donor or the part cheap,next thing I know I have 6+ tractors..

 

Yeah,you do tend to run out of room fast,with so many "repairables" available on craigslist..

I really hope to avoid that.

Based on age, hours, what the internet says about hydro life span - have been occasionally surfing for a back-up for a while. This exact model hasn't popped up very often and before recently, they've mostly been priced above my "might be nice to have" threshold. Lately I've been seeing a few that are price friendly but have almost as many hours as mine does. I'm trying to avoid taking it as a hint from the universe while balancing my experience with automotive junk yards.

Not that long after a bunch of them show up, they all disappear.

 

some pics because pics.

 

There is a post somewhere on MTF,about combining both pieces and drilling through both, on a drill press,then secure with a roll pin.

 

Now there's an interesting idea.

I will admit to having considered using JB Weld.

 

Perhaps grinding a flat on the pump shaft, and drilling and tapping the brake shaft for a grub screw would do the job. I'd trust that torque being held by a grub more than by a roll pin. Personally.
An alternative would be to drill through both, aligned properly, and use a bolt and self-locking nut.
You do want the combination to be concentric, though the rotation speed should not be excessive or cause a lot of vibration. A spline, unless tight, will allow a bit of wobble when it is not in a supporting bushing. The driveshaft in rear drive automatics use splines to transfer all engine power, but they keep the driveshaft centered by using bushings, with the actual spline engagement not so tight.
Either way, I doubt you will be able to purchase the input shaft to the pump unless internal parts are sold separately. For it to wear that way, either it had a LOT of hours, or there was a lot of flopping around without any lube, and there was slop that allowed rubbing friction to wear away the teeth. If tight, it would likely not have much motion.
tom

 

I love that you're taking the time to pull this apart and show us your progress.

I feel your pain, there's very little repair info available, and replacement parts are stupidly expensive. Most folks either swap the tranny or junk the tractor. You'd think there'd be a good market for used parts out of these things, but I honestly don't know too many folks that would make the effort.

I also got a good laugh from all the comments from several posters here about the dilemna of actually parting out or letting go of a donor or broken machine. Been there, done that (and currently have three machines, only one of which is currently running...).

Mike

 

It's kinda interesting, if not actually annoying, how many instances of this coupling stripping out that are posted here - when ya search for something like "stripped brake shaft". As in: if I had searched for that in the first place I could have skipped a few days of reading about fluid levels, filters and purging. On the upside, I haven't found any instance of anything else breaking in these things. That tends to give me confidence that if I fix this thing right, I'm good for another 1,000 hrs.

I do have concerns about how strong of a fix it will be. How likely it will be for the pump shaft to crack / split / break where I drill a hole through it when some torque gets applied. Thinking about maybe grinding down a bolt to make a solid set pin instead of using a hollow roll pin. I got nuthin to lose but time by tryin.

 

Please continue to post pics (or better still, a video) of your repairs. I found one pretty good video on YouTube a while ago, but it focused on replacing the pump/motor/pistons. The symptom was slipping tranny that purging didn't fix (much different than what you're dealing with).

Mike

 

You should be able to find a dead hydro somewhere that died from other causes,that still has that splined coupling intact..

Too bad they dont make shaft collars that are splined,I have seen some for PTO shafts,and common ones used on hydraulic pumps, but it is unlikely you'd be fortunate enough to find one with the exact size and spline count you'd need for that ..(see link below )..

Depending on how much stress is on that coupling,drilling it and the shaft and pinning them back together might result in the coupling or shafts snapping off if they have high torque load..those shafts are likely hard metal that wont drill easy too..
Maybe a keyway could be made in both shafts,then you could use a keyed coupler like ones sold at the Surplus Center..
https://www.surpluscenter.com/Power-Transmission/Shaft-Couplers/1-Piece-Solid-Couplers/

 

Hope I never strip mine out,must be reason its two piece,guess you cant weld with mig/flux,or maybe ?

 

Based on the tear down I just did, I'm beginning the think the only thing that actually breaks on these things is the coupling and which ever shaft it chews up when it goes. As in: any high hour donor is gonna need the same fix and any low hour donor is gonna cost at least 2x the price of fixing it.

Yeah, apparently the coupling is hardened. I wasn't able to put much more than a dimple in it - with a brand new, never used drill bit. I did consider wading through some hardware catalogs looking for a coupling but decided to just bite the bullet and buy the brake shaft kit. I still find it annoying that hydro-gear can't come up with the part numbers for the pieces they put in to the 62877 kit. I mean, how do they order it ???

brake shaft kit: $130
motor shaft: $43
pump gasket: $2
filter: $15
ammeter: $12
shipping: $17
total: $218

Bought the ammeter because apparently I intend to keep the donor tractor as a spare. Add the $150 I paid for the "parts" tractor and some gas to get it and some oil and I'm right about $400 for this adventure [so far]. Right now there's (2) more of these things on craigs - 1032 hrs for $600 at a mower shop and 900 hrs for $400 from a private seller.

 

The 2nd link in post #17 on pg 2 covers replacing the brake shaft. Here's getting the motor shaft out.

The (8) 6mm cap head screws came out real easy. The gasket had the center section very stuck to the housing. I put a putty knife in the gap just above the vise jaw and tapped with a small hammer and came right apart. The springs under the motor pistons pushed the cover up. Note the white out marks on the charge pump cover and see below. The motor and shaft came out with the center section. Didn't find any kind of grit, metal shavings, varnish, tar or any sort of FOAD.

 

The 2nd link in post #17 on pg 2 covers replacing the brake shaft. Here's getting the motor shaft out.

That was msg #33 on pg 3.
Here's a more detail version of getting the brake shaft out.

Washed down and mounted in tear down jig (trick I read here).
New parts that landed today.

 

Most of the pistons fell out of the cylinder block as it was lifted up. HG serv man says use a rubber band to hold them in place during assembly. That should be interesting. All 5 of them still fit very snugly in the bores. The retaining ring was a PIA to get off but at least it don't go flying across the garage when I finally got it free.