110 Head Gasket Plus Maintenance

walter g · Nov 25, 2013

When I put my John Deere 70 lawn tractor back together, I went to John Deere to get the head bolts and washers for the VH70 Tec. engine.
Even tho the numbers hadn't been changed they were using standard bolts and washers not Tec. Parts.
This was before Tec. Stopped making parts.
So you might want to ask if they are selling genuine Kohler or reg. bolts.

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QAFarm · Nov 25, 2013

And studs.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-aj2000-12g/overview/

Diesel Powered · Nov 25, 2013

If you go with ARP hardware, I expect an ARP decal on the side of the hood! This will be one high performance 110 by the time it's all done. :sidelaugh :thThumbsU

mrbeef · Nov 25, 2013

Y'all are going to make my head explode! Great suggestions but what a lot to ponder/research.

Remember I am just a simple egg head that happens to enjoy mechanical things for a hobby.

walter g said:
When I put my John Deere 70 lawn tractor back together, I went to John Deere to get the head bolts and washers for the VH70 Tec. engine.
Even tho the numbers hadn't been changed they were using standard bolts and washers not Tec. Parts.
This was before Tec. Stopped making parts.
So you might want to ask if they are selling genuine Kohler or reg. bolts.

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Good to know, something to look into.

Diesel Powered said:
If you go with ARP hardware, I expect an ARP decal on the side of the hood! This will be one high performance 110 by the time it's all done. :sidelaugh :thThumbsU

Killer Kohler in a 110 :sidelaugh

Its going to be a sleeper so no decals if I can help it.

k91 · Nov 25, 2013

jar19800 said:
toss the old head bolts and get new if ye can. dont get grade 8 "hardware" bolts. get PROPER head bolts.

:dunno: Simply sharing what worked in my case :dunno: I wasn't going to spend more on hardware than I spent on the tractor itself and its still running AFAIK at least the buyer has not called to complain. Is it the "right" fix? Probably not :hide:

Good luck MrB I'm sure you'll get it squared away :fing32:

walter g · Nov 25, 2013

On the JD website you can look up the specs on the head bolts. I think you will find a grade 8 bolt exceeds those specs. So it should work fine.

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jar19800 · Nov 25, 2013

by that i menat that not all grade 8 bolts are created equally.

i searched ARP extensively yesterday for a kit for the Kohler they dont have one at this time but they do have the individual pieces to make a kit.

i can vouch for their quality in hi performance use where stock fails. QA no doubt used their stuff in his sprint cars as well.

KWDAILYD · Nov 25, 2013

Wish I could be of some help Kyle but it's been interesting to follow along. Sorry you're having theses problems. Makes me want to go check my head bolts for the proper torque.

mrbeef · Nov 25, 2013

Heads (both from the 65' and 66' K181s) are at the machine shop and I should be able to pick them up this afternoon.

Went to Deere and had a good conversation about the bolts. This is what I learned: In this case the head bolts are actually between Grade 5 and 8 and specific. They do stretch over time...... You can use grade 8 without many issues. Also typically if the leak is around the exhaust valve it is most likely a block issue and if it is elsewhere it is a head issue (heavily summarizing).

Got the head bolts orders as well as the studs, glad I only needed two. The reason I opted for the studs from Deere was A) they are the specific part I need B) I have a good relationship with the parts guys and they are going to try and give me little break on them (typically they can) C) by the time I paid shipping for the ones I found online (that I know were correct) I was saving $10... I gain enough knowledge walking into the dealership and talking with some of the parts guys and older mechanics, that it is worth the 10 bucks... IMHO Maybe I am wrong. I really looked into those racing bolts and studs last night and I might use those for the 110 restoration, certainly did not discount them, but the route I went serves my exact purpose right now and gives me the best chance with parts that I know will work and allow me to check things off the list if something goes wrong again.

KWDAILYD said:
Wish I could be of some help Kyle but it's been interesting to follow along. Sorry you're having theses problems. Makes me want to go check my head bolts for the proper torque.

Larry I really think this issue is a combination of a warped head bought about by me actually working the tractor, coupled with a few other operator errors, and a very dirty breather. It has probably worked harder in the last three months than it has in the last 20 years. Mowing, hauling trailers, pulling brush etc etc. I figure if I am not going to restore this one I might as well use it as it was intended. Cant wait to run it into a pile of snow for the first time.

mdchambe · Nov 25, 2013

I think I speak for everyone when I say we ALL can't wait for you to run it into a pile of snow for the first time!

jar19800 · Nov 25, 2013

if you are worried about the valve Clearance to the head do the following

put some modeling clay in the head where the valves would be.
put the head on the engine with an old gasket and bolts.
crank engine by hand
remove head and inspect clay. you want the clay to be no thinner than .020"

the racing bolts are really good stuff. IDK about Kohlers but we used to blow the heads clean off Briggs when we hopped them up for go cart racing...yea it was cool!...as long as it happened to someone else:hide:

mrbeef · Nov 26, 2013

Picked up the heads, now just waiting on the bolts and studs.

Smalljob · Nov 26, 2013

Mrbeef.... Nice. Did they end up just resurfacing or did you decide to try having them milled?

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skiwithjohn · Nov 26, 2013

Did you check with any of the companies that do Kohler high performance engine rebuilds for the head bolts & studs? A few companies that come to mind are Kirk Engines, Lakota Racing and A-1 Miller's Performance Enterprises (Brina Miller). All of these guys build Kohler engines for tractor pulling and sell many parts and services involved with rebuilding Kohler engines.

wolverinenc · Nov 26, 2013

Looks like a standard grade 8 bolt would work. What would be the advantages of using racing application bolts on a standard engine? I'm not flaming. I have the same issue that Mr. B has and I'm wondering if this would help or be over kill.

QAFarm · Nov 26, 2013

wolverinenc said:
Looks like a standard grade 8 bolt would work. What would be the advantages of using racing application bolts on a standard engine? I'm not flaming. I have the same issue that Mr. B has and I'm wondering if this would help or be over kill.

Really nothing. Here was my reasoning for the ARP hardware. I think a good quality grade 8 bolt would work. Probably even grade 5 would have no trouble. The ARP studs and bolts were instead of the deere factory hardware. Mainly just because of price. Especially for the studs. The bolts are a wash as far as price but the studs are about 7 dollars apiece instead of the 21 deere quoted. Most of the time you can get free shipping from places like summit or Jegs. The ARP stuff was cheeper and is the bar none best hardware on the market. The average grade 8 bolt has a psi strength of 120,000 PSI the ARP hardware is a minumim of 170,000 psi. Not needed no but when it was cheeper I thought I would bring it up. However there is the unknown with the thread length and such with the ARP studs. And for a piece of equipment that is needed soon that could be a problem with trial an error getting the right stuff. Would ARP be overkill? Yes. But if it can keep a head on a motor that runs 18 to 1 compression making 906 hp and turnes 9800 rpm it gets my vote every time.:dunno: just remember this is all just my opinion.

mrbeef · Nov 26, 2013

Smalljob said:
Mrbeef.... Nice. Did they end up just resurfacing or did you decide to try having them milled?

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Just a resurface, based on my approx measurements I lost about 0.006-0.01 of thickness. I forgot to write down the original thickness and did not think about it until after I dropped them off.

skiwithjohn said:
Did you check with any of the companies that do Kohler high performance engine rebuilds for the head bolts & studs? A few companies that come to mind are Kirk Engines, Lakota Racing and A-1 Miller's Performance Enterprises (Brina Miller). All of these guys build Kohler engines for tractor pulling and sell many parts and services involved with rebuilding Kohler engines.

I did, it all boiled down to shipping. By the time I would have paid shipping it would have been about the same price. These have a chance of getting here by Wed... gives me something to do on Thanksgiving, Mrs Beef is working and family is not arriving until evening.

QAFarm · Nov 26, 2013

Nice looking heads Mr B. looks like they surface ground them. That's a good idea actually perfectly flat minimum material removed.:fing32:

mrbeef · Nov 26, 2013

QAFarm said:
Really nothing. Here was my reasoning for the ARP hardware. I think a good quality grade 8 bolt would work. Probably even grade 5 would have no trouble. The ARP studs and bolts were instead of the deere factory hardware. Mainly just because of price. Especially for the studs. The bolts are a wash as far as price but the studs are about 7 dollars apiece instead of the 21 deere quoted. Most of the time you can get free shipping from places like summit or Jegs. The ARP stuff was cheeper and is the bar none best hardware on the market. The average grade 8 bolt has a psi strength of 120,000 PSI the ARP hardware is a minumim of 170,000 psi. Not needed no but when it was cheeper I thought I would bring it up. However there is the unknown with the thread length and such with the ARP studs. And for a piece of equipment that is needed soon that could be a problem with trial an error getting the right stuff. Would ARP be overkill? Yes. But if it can keep a head on a motor that runs 18 to 1 compression making 906 hp and turnes 9800 rpm it gets my vote every time.:dunno: just remember this is all just my opinion.

Sound like the reasoning that went through my head. I will certainly look into them for the upcoming K181 rebuild. Here are what the studs look like.

Oh and big thanks to LTG, used his recent thread on moving studs on Wally for the hydro pump!

QAFarm · Nov 26, 2013

Looking at you stud pic. The ARP ones will be equal thread length. The link I sent is for 2 inch studs. With the measurements you posted I'm not sure that's long enough. If your interested I can look into them more and let you know. I spent about 2 minuets looking lol.

110 Head Gasket Plus Maintenance

walter g

QAFarm

Diesel Powered

mrbeef

k91

walter g

jar19800

KWDAILYD

mrbeef

mdchambe

jar19800

mrbeef

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Smalljob

skiwithjohn

wolverinenc

QAFarm

mrbeef

QAFarm

mrbeef

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QAFarm

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