[gojira]

Just a data point for folks here - I have a 2017 X590 with the 48" mower deck and 47" snowthrower. I clear about 175' of driveway length with another 20x30' area coming up to our house's garage.

I used it for the second time this winter and put it in my shed the way I always do. A couple of days later I went into the shed and saw what I thought was water on the ground under the snowthrower, which was odd. Nope, it was gearbox oil leaking from the right-side rubber seal. I tried pressing the seal back in place but it would not stay. I called the dealer, who picked it up, repaired it under warranty and returned to me Friday. (Good thing, as we're expecting 18-20" of snow overnight tonight!)

The service invoice said the gearbox had internal damage, a partial seizure and they had to replace the gearbox. It is a single part (AM142007) which was invoiced at $587 (JD picked up about $860 in total parts, labor, and delivery charge.) When the guy dropped it off, he said that they don't repair the augur gearbox on those but just replace the whole gearbox, and mine was not the first one they had seen recently. So, for those that have newer snowthrowers, it might be something to keep an eye out for (especially while you are still in warranty!)

 

[jgayman]

Just a data point for folks here - I have a 2017 X590 with the 48" mower deck and 47" snowthrower. I clear about 175' of driveway length with another 20x30' area coming up to our house's garage.

I used it for the second time this winter and put it in my shed the way I always do. A couple of days later I went into the shed and saw what I thought was water on the ground under the snowthrower, which was odd. Nope, it was gearbox oil leaking from the right-side rubber seal. I tried pressing the seal back in place but it would not stay. I called the dealer, who picked it up, repaired it under warranty and returned to me Friday. (Good thing, as we're expecting 18-20" of snow overnight tonight!)

The service invoice said the gearbox had internal damage, a partial seizure and they had to replace the gearbox. It is a single part (AM142007) which was invoiced at $587 (JD picked up about $860 in total parts, labor, and delivery charge.) When the guy dropped it off, he said that they don't repair the augur gearbox on those but just replace the whole gearbox, and mine was not the first one they had seen recently. So, for those that have newer snowthrowers, it might be something to keep an eye out for (especially while you are still in warranty!)

This is basically the same gearbox used on all 47" and 54" front blowers. The reason they don't repair them is that JD does not offer any individual parts for the gearbox. I find it ridiculous that a snowblower that costs this much money has an auger drive gearbox that is only available as a whole unit for nearly $600. So if you have a leaking seal.... $587. Bad bevel gear... $587. Bent front cover... $587. The bent front cover is the best because JD recently changed the design of the front cover such that it has an edge that protrudes around the gearbox case. The previous version of the cover was flush all the way around. Stones can get caught between the auger tip and the corner of the cover and it will peel the cover over just like a can opener. There are many examples and photos on-line. Since a new cover is only available with the $587 complete gearbox assembly your only recourse is to pound it straight with a hammer and seal it up with silicon.

I have the 54" blower on my CUT and had I know parts were not available I would have never bought the thing. I have a 25 year old 33" MTD that I can still get almost every part - including auger gearbox parts. JD should be ashamed.

 

[uwaeve]

As a last thing before the snow I tried to see if I could get the idler fender washer grease seal mod done, but the current bolt isn't long enough to take the lock washer and fender washer. I looked it up and it looks like it's a standard M8x50 so I probably just need to source a M8x60. I tried pulling the bolt but I think I'm going to have to do it with the blower off the hitch, as the bottom plate of the hitch sort of keeps me from dropping that bolt out and everything's under tension with the belt on.

Oh well, hopefully it survives the winter. We'll see how it goes with tonight/tomorrow snow/rain/ice extravaganza.

I tried both sets of chains because why not, and the Terra Grips make the tractor bounce like crazy and I can't get the regular chains tight enough. I don't have any of the tensioning springs/webbing setups so maybe that would help but they were like hanging off the HDAPs at their absolute tightest (I'd have to skip over a cross chain to get it any tighter). They are the right size according to the package, and were sealed so idk what's up with that. In the interest of science I'm leaving everything off to see what 4 suitcases and the HDAPs can do, and the Terra Grips will be on backup.

 

[dave_r]

Maybe check for any part numbers on the gearbox. JD is unlikely to make them, and the actual manufacturer may have parts for the gearbox.

Ariens does the same thing with the gearbox on their Power Brush (the original ones they used from some Chinese manufacturer didn't have one, but after replacing 2 of them under warranty [these only lasted for 2 months of light use], Ariens switched to a name-brand manufacturer, and now if it fails, I can get parts for it from that manufacturer, but it's lasted 5 years now).

Same with their engines, someone else makes 'em, JD slaps their label on them and charges a bunch more for parts for the engine, and people buy them for that extra money because they might possibly be different from the OEM part...

 

[gojira]

I have the 54" blower on my CUT and had I know parts were not available I would have never bought the thing. I have a 25 year old 33" MTD that I can still get almost every part - including auger gearbox parts. JD should be ashamed.

I understand that - I sold a 12-year-old Husqvarna 27" walk-behind that I did nothing to other than PM, and that lived a hard life; the driveway was shorter but we were at the dead end of a street so I'd have to deal with cleaning large amounts of snow to keep my driveway widened out. You could get all the parts for it also.

Maybe check for any part numbers on the gearbox. JD is unlikely to make them, and the actual manufacturer may have parts for the gearbox.

Ariens does the same thing with the gearbox on their Power Brush (the original ones they used from some Chinese manufacturer didn't have one, but after replacing 2 of them under warranty [these only lasted for 2 months of light use], Ariens switched to a name-brand manufacturer, and now if it fails, I can get parts for it from that manufacturer, but it's lasted 5 years now).

Same with their engines, someone else makes 'em, JD slaps their label on them and charges a bunch more for parts for the engine, and people buy them for that extra money because they might possibly be different from the OEM part...

The gearbox has a made in India sticker on it; I'll have to copy down what I can find for part numbers on it.

 

[jgayman]

The gearbox has a made in India sticker on it; I'll have to copy down what I can find for part numbers on it.

I was just going to mention the Made in India marking. A few years ago folks tried to find the OEM and if anyone offered any parts and came up empty.

 

[mrmagloo]

Yes, I believe the final consensus was, this was not a generic unit but more, a spec build gearbox. Sure would however love to find out otherwise.

 

[Sergeant]

Many Deere Gear Boxes are Made at a Deere Facility In Pune India for the snow Blowers and Many other applications

Mowing deck Gear Boxes are made In Spain at another Deere facility for Most Deere mowing decks

Bean counters at Deere decided it easier to keep complete Gear Boxes on hand than Individual Parts Not every Body Is Mechanically Inclined to rebuild it themselves and it does Cut down On the Labor time for the customer:thThumbsU

 

[mrmagloo]

Many Deere Gear Boxes are Made at a Deere Facility In Pune India for the snow Blowers and Many other applications

Mowing deck Gear Boxes are made In Spain at another Deere facility for Most Deere mowing decks

Bean counters at Deere decided it easier to keep complete Gear Boxes on hand than Individual Parts Not every Body Is Mechanically Inclined to rebuild it themselves and it does Cut down On the Labor time for the customer:thThumbsU

And most importantly, when they break out of warranty, they can sell us the entire unit at a ridiculously expensive cost, instead of just the parts we need.

Frankly, anyone who has the ability to take the augers off, is fully capable of changing the gear set in one of these boxes. Trust me, JD doesn't make any decision based on what's best for the customer.

 

[rudedawg]

...... Trust me, JD doesn't make any decision based on what's best for the customer.

and that my friend is why I've not committed to buying a new JD lawn/garden tractor.

 

[Sergeant]

And most importantly, when they break out of warranty, they can sell us the entire unit at a ridiculously expensive cost, instead of just the parts we need.

Frankly, anyone who has the ability to take the augers off, is fully capable of changing the gear set in one of these boxes. Trust me, JD doesn't make any decision based on what's best for the customer.

Oh they do Take it Into consideration By trying to keep the service costs down That part of the Bean counters Job Because they want a repeat customer.

I asked this question to the a Bean counter at Deere I was Interviewing for My Book. As to why the don't offer rebuild-able Gear box on certain things. Because Today's Consumer is Not Interested In dealing with the re-build themselves or the cost of Having the shop re-Build them as He Put it. He also said "It Not Like It was 50 years ago when You Deere dealer Might be 100 Miles away. That the cost of doing it yourself Made Financial sense".

Now a Majority of there customer base in the consumer Products Line wants Plug & Play for the up keep of there Machine.

(keep Mind these type of forums represent a very small Percentage of Deere's actual customer Base).

It's Just to bad were In the Minority. If were were In the Majority they would Probably still produce rebuild-able Gear Box's.

Even with Harvesters(combine/Corn Picker) there starting to use some non rebuild-able Gear Boxes as It easier for the Farmer to Just have Plug & Play because it Limits there down time. When You Machine is down Your Productivity is also down. I don't Like it anymore than You.

But Deere does take customer feedback Into consideration and the Gear Box for the snow blower is actually a Prime example of taking customer feedback into consideration :thThumbsU

 

[jgayman]

I asked this question to the a Bean counter at Deere I was Interviewing for My Book. As to why the don't offer rebuild-able Gear box on certain things. Because Today's Consumer is Not Interested In dealing with the re-build themselves or the cost of Having the shop re-Build them as He Put it. He also said "It Not Like It was 50 years ago when You Deere dealer Might be 100 Miles away. That the cost of doing it yourself Made Financial sense".

It sounds like the bean counter you spoke with had just finished off a bottle of Scotch!

This may apply to other equipment but not the snow blower auger drive. I mean, there are a lot of folks who have only damaged the top cover. And the damage occurred because JD redesigned the cover to stick out around the edges. The original cover didn't have the problem. So instead of replacing a $10 cover customer's WANT to have the entire gear housing replaced? I can see them offering the gear drive as a unit, but why not at least sell the cover as a part? And what about a leaking seal? The time to pop the cover, pull out an auger shaft and pop in a new seal would be WAY less time than totally disassembling the blower to replace the auger drive. And the cost of a $10 seal compared to the $500 auger box. Heck, you could replace the auger box and end up with a seal leaking again. We're not talking about an automatic transmission here... it's a simple snow blower bevel drive.

Even with Harvesters(combine/Corn Picker) there starting to use some non rebuild-able Gear Boxes as It easier for the Farmer to Just have Plug & Play because it Limits there down time. When You Machine is down Your Productivity is also down. I don't Like it anymore than You.

Again, I can where there is some equipment where this would be beneficial. But again, not with the snow blower auger drive. Replacing the top cover takes 10 mins. Replacing the entire auger drive requires total disassembly of the blower which is HOURS of work. So a $50 dealer repair becomes $800. Instead of being down 20-mins you are down all day. And to think, the problem was caused because JD changed the design of the cover to make it easier to damage. Auger drives on snow blowers are very simple. There are just a handful of parts. I've replaced a bevel gear in my MTD gear box and it was no big deal. If you can get parts for a $600 snow blower you should be able to get parts for a $5000 snow blower. By comparison, virtually ALL 3PH snow blowers have parts available for the auger box - including JD's Frontier units. Same goes for most walk-behinds.

 

[mrmagloo]

Sarg, as you know, I think the world of you, but I've had more than enough conversations with the JD tier 2 engineering support about easy fixes on countless different items that would cost them next to ZERO to improve the durability and reliability of a given component, and I have never once received a positive response

Not to rehash with what jgayman just stated, but that's exactly the point I was going to make. Being forced to replace an entire gearbox just over seals? I mean, JHC, all they have to do is tell the Indian plant to send a skid of misc parts, and that would supply the entire USA for a year or two, no doubt at a higher margin on the individual items than the entire unit. Over time, they would more than make out.
To the contrary, this is the kind of Information that is disenfranchising their long term customers.

 

[Sergeant]

It sounds like the bean counter you spoke with had just finished off a bottle of Scotch!

This may apply to other equipment but not the snow blower auger drive. I mean, there are a lot of folks who have only damaged the top cover. And the damage occurred because JD redesigned the cover to stick out around the edges. The original cover didn't have the problem. So instead of replacing a $10 cover customer's WANT to have the entire gear housing replaced? I can see them offering the gear drive as a unit, but why not at least sell the cover as a part? And what about a leaking seal? The time to pop the cover, pull out an auger shaft and pop in a new seal would be WAY less time than totally disassembling the blower to replace the auger drive. And the cost of a $10 seal compared to the $500 auger box. Heck, you could replace the auger box and end up with a seal leaking again. We're not talking about an automatic transmission here... it's a simple snow blower bevel drive.



Again, I can where there is some equipment where this would be beneficial. But again, not with the snow blower auger drive. Replacing the top cover takes 10 mins. Replacing the entire auger drive requires total disassembly of the blower which is HOURS of work. So a $50 dealer repair becomes $800. Instead of being down 20-mins you are down all day. And to think, the problem was caused because JD changed the design of the cover to make it easier to damage. Auger drives on snow blowers are very simple. There are just a handful of parts. I've replaced a bevel gear in my MTD gear box and it was no big deal. If you can get parts for a $600 snow blower you should be able to get parts for a $5000 snow blower. By comparison, virtually ALL 3PH snow blowers have parts available for the auger box - including JD's Frontier units. Same goes for most walk-behinds.

JD frontiers are Made By woods and Not John Deere

Yes I agree with You On there reasoning.

But the feedback Deere got Was Consumers wanted Plug and Play They didn't want to deal with re-Building the Gear Box's even if it was a simple fix.

But I have never Had a Problem with the Modern Gear Box On My 47inch Blower. Doesn't mean it won't Happen But for the Last 4 & 1/2 Years It Been trouble free

Because I honestly haven't Heard of the damage to the gear Box except for Tractor forums and again we only represent a small Portion of Deere's actual customer Base. I have heard of Maybe 10 gear box issues out of the thousands produced worldwide

My Brother who is a Large Volume Deere dealer service Manager Hasn't even replaced a snow Blower Gear Box yet for outside damage and They have 17 Deere dealerships for which he is head of service for . They have had them fail do to Internal problems But Not external damage. But He would also rather Have them to be rebuild-able.

But the Customer expects a New Gear Box and Not a fix half the time which Is what he has encountered with older Blowers that they were able to fix the Internals On.

You and I and Many forum members are a dying breed. That want to be able to service our Gear Boxes. It is such a shame. But it's the way of the world Now with these Millennial's :thThumbsU

 

[jgayman]

Darn... If you think you have it bad. I was just helping someone out with a parts look-up on the main gearbox for the 59-inch front blower. Surprise surprise, JD only sells it as a complete unit for $1276 !!! Supposedly it just needs a new main gear but of course no parts are available.

And if you really want to feel good about your 47/54-inch blower. The front auger bevel gear box on the 59-inch also only comes as a complete unit along with the two auger half shafts for a tidy price of $1114.

Please someone tell me again how this is all due to JD giving customer's what they want?

 

[Sergeant]

Darn... If you think you have it bad. I was just helping someone out with a parts look-up on the main gearbox for the 59-inch front blower. Surprise surprise, JD only sells it as a complete unit for $1276 !!! Supposedly it just needs a new main gear but of course no parts are available.

And if you really want to feel good about your 47/54-inch blower. The front auger bevel gear box on the 59-inch also only comes as a complete unit along with the two auger half shafts for a tidy price of $1114.

Please someone tell me again how this is all due to JD giving customer's what they want?

Like I said above we are Dinosaurs In the minds Of today's world because we Like to fix it our self's But Deere Bases a lot of there design changes Based On Customer Feedback.

The X300 is a Prime example The LX200 series had serviceable transmissions that you didn't need to removes the Transmission to service it.

But the feedback they got was Most were Not servicing there Transmission themselves So they Just Had Tuff-Torq send them Transmissions with out drain Plug and Deere doesn't Put In Fill tubes In the fender deck anymore .

The world changed and Deere changed with it to Match the Majority feeling about serviceability or the Lack there of.

I would say If You got every Member On this forum regardless if the Deere owners or Not to send Deere a email about Having serviceable Gear Box In the Blowers we Might Just get them back In the Blowers

Sometime In the 1980's the was a Letter writing campaign to change something On Row Crop tractors Hydraulics and Deere changed it Based On all the feedback they Got.

The Bean counter I interviewed was a Former Deere design Engineer who I shared some of the same Dirt with In a Little Caribbean county in 1983. Long before He was a Deere Employee

I asked what it would Take to Change something such as a serviceable transmission being Put Back Into all there Lawn Tractors and He told Me Massive amount's of Customer & dealer Feedback.

1 Voice Just isn't enough nor is 10 little Indians But a 1000 Voices Might get them to change a design. Because They got a lot of dealer feedback On the Transmissions and the use of sealed Gear Boxes Big reason Deere went to them.

Now weather there was a lot of customer Feedback Or Just dealer feedback on the Gear Boxes who knows:dunno:

I am sorry we all have to deal with Non serviceable components But I guess are voice just isn't strong enough compared To the People that want Plug and Play components:tango_face_sad: .

Look at the silly Oil change Kits they Have for the E 100 series. I think that was terrible Idea:tango_face_sad:

 

[jgayman]

Look at the silly Oil change Kits they Have for the E 100 series. I think that was terrible Idea:tango_face_sad:

Yes, but at the same time Deere released inexpensive kits to change the engines back to a conventional oil filter, I assume because they didn't want to lose sales to folks who thought it was a dumb idea.

 

[Sergeant]

Yes, but at the same time Deere released inexpensive kits to change the engines back to a conventional oil filter, I assume because they didn't want to lose sales to folks who thought it was a dumb idea.

Yes That was actually Planned when they came out with the system. Somebody had forethought and the Idea was signed off for Production.

The original sealed gear Box Idea was actual put forth By a Deere dealership. Then Deere got feedback from other dealers who stated there Customers Preferred Plug and Play and we have sealed Gear Boxes.

My guess is Some dealership service department figure since they have the Machine apart why not Just change the whole gear Box out. Great for the dealer But Bad for Guys that Just want to change a Part out. If it was Up to Many of the Deere Design engineers every single component would be serviceable On the Machines they design at least the One's I talked to In WI, NC and GA But they Have to answer to the Bean counters:thThumbsU

 

[uwaeve]

I forgot to post that I am in love with this thing. Worked as advertised. I'm sure I could improve traction with chains but went with just the HDAPs and 4 suitcase to start. No serious traction issues, we will see how it fares in the spring once I get some ice in the poor drainage areas. I don't know that I would have gotten stuck without the diff lock but there were some parts of the walk and lawn (for the oil delivery guy) that got interesting until I stepped on the orange pedal.

 

[uwaeve]

Posted elsewhere but figured I'd repeat here for a follow-on question.

I deliberately waited for the 4" of snow to take on the 1"+ of rain last night/this morning to see how it did. It was heavy and sticky as ****. Took a bit of learning to balance everything but it did way better than my walk-behind. Pushed big piles, sometimes only threw 10', and the chute threatened to clog, but each was relatively easy to overcome with some finesse. I would have been unclogging the walk behind multiple times based on experience, and it wouldn't have thrown 5'. I think the difference was being able to get a bit of a run up to ram snow into the auger/impeller that broke the clog free, while being able to continuously vary the speed so I could back off after the clog broke and resume a normal pace. The discrete speed selector on the walk behind made that impossible to balance out correctly.

My question, probably a dumb one after snowblowing for 20 years and just winging it, is how much is it reasonable to load up/bog down a carbureted 4-stroke like this? Do they run (and last) fine when loaded so that the RPM drops a bit? A lot? Am I doing a disservice to the engine to let it drop at all and should endeavor to keep it running at full RPM by modulating the clearing speed? I mean I know that if I'm bogging down so hard I'm in danger of stalling it I need to ease up, but is it acceptable to run it at WOT and have the RPM knocked down by a couple segments on the RPM display for extended periods? Not that I enjoy torturing the engine, it's just that doing so allows a way to get enough snow into the auger/impeller to actually get it thrown 10-20' as opposed to pushing a pile and having the thrown stuff land just beyond the edge of the housing when the snow is heavy and wet. Just another thing to vary along with how wide of a cut I take at the snow.