I think wheel weights are actually preferable from an engineering stand point ...if the holes are in your wheels...just get any wheel weights for 23" wheels...if no holes , you could drill your own...just a little hard to get them properly centered and spaced

 

Just get them from John Deere and paint them, we won't tell !

 

I was going to suggest he consult with Steve Urquel for some advice on method and color scheme

 

The difference between wheel weights and suitcase is 1) wheel weights are not as easy to remove as suitcase weights and 2) you can have suitcase weights on a front mount or a rear mount.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

 

On my initial order for my 2020 XT3 GSX in late August, I wanted the Cub Cadet wheel weights as a separate item alongside the tractor. Dealer said that wasn't possible as they were required to install the weights and also charge me an hour of labor to do so. Told them to just forget the weights. Very same day, I ordered the Arnold (MTD) wheel weights from Amazon.
Something is just a tad screwy there as MTD is the overall corporate owner, Cub Cadet is their premium line and Arnold was bought by MTD years ago. So it is all under the same umbrella.

For your question of suitcase weights vs wheel weights, it pretty much all boils down to use. The wheel weights are semi-permanently mounted to the wheels and the suitcase weights can be moved around to the front or rear, or even removed more easily.

 

Ok, thanks everyone! It seems to be mainly a convenience issue.

 

Not exactly. You add weight to a tractor for one or more of 3 reasons. Traction, counterbalance of attachments and stability.

Having both types of weights is useful for adding traction weight. You can have more total weight using suitcase weights (frame weights) and wheel weights together. Your traction gives you your power to pull and push things. Weight gives you more traction. Good treads, chains and weights gives you traction. You can have suitcase weights, wheel weights and loaded tires for maximum weight and power.

Suitcase weights are good for traction weight and are the ones needed for counterbalance with various attachments. A FEL, plow, brush and snowblower need counterbalance in the back. A backhoe, scrapper blade, rototiller, etc needs counterbalance in the front.

Now wheel weights can be counterbalance some but not direct front to back. Wheel weighs are excellent for traction Wheel weights provide more weight right over the wheels. If you don't have traction you don't have the full power of your tractor.

Loaded tires add the weight right inside the tires. This would theoretically give the best weight over tires results.

Wheel weights, and even more so loaded tires, also lower your center of gravity and thereby give greater stability when cutting grass or moving on slopes and hills.

So it comes down to what kind of things do you do with your tractor to determine what weights to use.

 

They do still have wheel weights Wheel Weights - 100 lb. - OEM-190-784 | Cub Cadet US they Just say for 2006 & Prior But the wheel weight Mounting Holes are still On the rims on the XT3 series But it actually about Marketing 4 Suitcase weight get them $246.36 two wheel weights gets them $142.99 if Going with OEM.
I run 4 suitcvase weights and two 50lb wheel weights On My JD GX335 for Plowing snow Going to let is sit our this winter Possibly and use the XT3 GSX with 4 aftermarket Black suitcase weights and let it do the Plowing this winter since I now have a Set of HDAP style tires On the Rear of the GSX now No need for chains or Terra-Grip rubber chains either I can Plow Just fine with 4 suitcase weights But adding wheel weights the JD GX335 is almost unstoppable and I have never used the diff/lock on the JD GX335

 

One important difference is that wheel weights and filled tires are not loading the axles. With suitcase weights the maximum load for axles needs to be taken into account.

 

Basically the same information as Tractor Beam displayed, but with a bit of extra info.

Liquid ballast is supported by the ground. It actually pinches the tire tread between it and the ground for the best possible traction from existing conditions.

Wheel weights are supported by the air cushion in the tire. The added weight causes the tire to squat slightly resulting in more tread area to support the load.

Liquid ballast and wheel weights are primarily for traction and stability.

Suitcase weights are supported by the bearings in the axle housings.Their primary use is to counter the weight of attachments at either the front or rear of the tractor. The added weight causes the tires to squat slightly resulting in more tread area to support the load. Traction benefits are dependent on the existing setup of the tractor and can range from less than normal traction (weights added to the front without the corresponding rear implement attached, to substantial (weights added to the rear without the corresponding front implement attached).

Suitcase weights do not contribute significantly to stability like liquid ballast and/or wheel weights.

 

Wheel weight put the weight right where you need it, and without putting extra pressure on bearings.

 

I would rethink that one. May not add weight to the vertical load. But any added weight at the end of the axle adds to bearing stress. Increased traction and even lack of it can create bearing stress.
Some remember pressure on bearing can be both vertical and horizontal.

 

Wow... thank you guys for the education! This all makes a lot of sense.

I mow on 2 acres of pretty hilly terrain with a few steep grades, so it sounds like the wheel weights may be useful for year-round stability when cutting the grass (especially in the spring). I will add the suitcase weight for when I am using the bucket or plowing snow as a counterbalance and a little added traction. Finally, from the other thread, a set of new HDAP tires are going on this weekend to improve traction year-round. Very helpful!

 

Nice! There's also kind of a hybrid approach. Someone apparently used to sell adapters that bolt to the wheels, the way that wheel weights do. Except these provide a horizontal rod, and you slip iron weight-lifting weights onto them.

So the weight is still on the wheels. But you can more easily adjust the amount of weight, sort of like suitcase weights.

I think someone used to sell them on eBay? They could likely be fabricated as well. They just struck me as an interesting option.

 

I didn't like how those were designed because they put all the weight on the wheel and studs. The ones I made use compression of the plates against the wheel to provide support and limit endshake.

 

What Tractor Beam and Tudor said.

I once bought a GT3200 that had wheels about to break in two and fall apart, and it had the bolts that hold the differential together come loose and cause internal damage. The tires were filled to the max and even with the valve stems at the top, fluid would come out if the valve core was depressed.

The tractor also had the "neutral return spring" missing and it was very abrupt when going from F-R or R-F. I am not sure how long it was operated that way by the PO. Apparently too long.

I suspect that the damage to the wheels and loose dif bolts was primarily caused by the spring being missing. I think the very heavy wheels was also a factor, but probably to a lesser extent.

 

GT tires filled to the correct 75% level will have the fluid level about 1" above the outside of the rim. The fill valve is about 2.5 - 3.5" below that point in the well of the rim where the bead is placed to begin the process of installing the tire.

In the early morning, when atmospheric conditions are just right, dew (or frost) will form on the tire and show the exact level of the fluid.

The differential bolts were probably not torqued correctly resulting in them loosening off over time. This happened to me after rebuilding the final drive. Once the bolts were re-torqued, no more problem.

The neutral return spring only really comes into play when the foot comes off of the control pedal. It's a pretty light spring and not meant to affect operational control. Some GTs have a shock absorber to slow response time when going from forward to reverse or reverse to forward, mostly on hand controlled hydros. Most foot control hydros don't have that shock because the foot can't rock the pedal as fast as the arm can move the drive control lever.

I can rock the foot pedal back and forth on my MF1655 fast enough to chew divots in the lawn with the chains and bury the rear wheels until the final drive hits the ground, and not move the tractor more than an inch forward or backwards in the process. This was with tires filled with 160 lb of CaCl liquid ballast and 40 lb of wheel weights each. The tractor ran for 12 years (1200 hours) with no problem with the rims that couldn't be accounted for by the corrosive effect of the calcium.

Calcium will rust out GT rims to the point of leaking fluid in 12 years. First set from January 1982 to October 1994, second set from October 1994 to June 2006.

I assume that when you say "wheels about to break in two and fall apart" that you were referring to the spot welds for the spider (wheel center) were pulling apart. This is a (slim) possibility with weights that heavy and lateral (side sloping) forces on the rims, but several members run with two sets of 50 lb weights on their rims without similar problems.

Methinks that the Great Gods, Chance and Opportunity, along with a healthy dose of Mr. Murphy and his Laws, collaborated to generate your problem.

 

What a great topic!
I've really enjoyed reading all of the different experiences and viewpoints about weight over the years here at MTF.
Everyone has always seemed to have an honest and interesting approach based on their applications.
It seems to me none are wrong; just different.

My 2 pennies, from a northern New Englander's perspective;
Not long ago I owned a CC GT-2542 that I bought new in early 2009. (Gave to our son in-law when we sold our home and moved to this one a year or so ago)
Used that very capable machine year-round for mowing, hauling, pulling, pushing, ripping, and snow blowing (200'+ paved driveway).
When I bought it I got both the wheel weights "and" the suitcase weights and bracket - thinking that I would need that kind of weight with chains for the kind of duty that New Hampshire winters sometimes demand.
Well, the 1st winter I used all of the weight (and chains). Tractor handled it easily and... I Certainly did not lack for traction.
But, here's where experience comes in (mine anyway...);

The 42 pound suitcases (I had 4) were relatively easy to handle putting on and off the bracket, (while standing up) and stored neatly.
The 70 pound wheel weights were difficult to grip, a pain to line up on the long bolts, and all around knuckle smashing s.o.b.'s to handle both on and off - all while squatting in front of the rear wheel (with 70 pounds of slippery plastic covered weight).
More than once I either smashed a finger, dropped the weight or, grew tired trying to line it up and ended up on my back side with the weight dropped somewhere between the wheel and my crotch.
Maybe I'm just clumsy...😆

Oh, and lets not forget that lugging them to and from the spot where you want to store them is a treat as well. (Squat to place them there/squat to pick them up to move them - Uurruuumph!).
But I digress...;
After the first couple of seasons dealing with the above I decided to forgo the wheel weights and simply use the suitcases... aaand never looked back for the next 8 seasons. Never had traction issues with just the suitcases (and chains) in winter either.
Plus, I recall there were a number of times that I felt that I wanted a little extra traction for some heavy hauls/pulls in the summer or fall and simply put the suitcases on for those jobs (I left the bracket on year-round).
So for my purposes; I found the suitcases far more convenient (and easier on my back, hips, knees, and fingers) than the wheel weights and - more than adequate.

Best Regards !!!

Renster

 

😉 In your signature I distinctly see the Kioti with FEL...after the wrestling matches with the wheel weights...is that when you decided to get the loader?😉

 

Wow! I would not have expected to see the wheels themselves actually cracking. Though I suppose, if something was going to break, I'd much rather break a wheel, than the axle, or the frame. One is fixed with an easy & comparatively-cheap swap, the others are substantially more involved.

I don't have much context for how abrupt it can be. But my tractor stops smoothly when I let off the forward pedal, but rather abruptly when letting off reverse. And from some reading, this affects the XT3 as well, so I don't think it's just my machine. I'm trying to get a better feel for it, but need some more practice. When I ease off gradually, I often either to too slowly (backing up further than intended), or I stop more abruptly.

Softening that transition would be nice, if there was an easy solution. And I do have to imagine that wheel weights would add some meaningful stress on the tranny, if abruptly letting the tranny's valves stop the machine in reverse. Hopefully not enough to be a problem, but more than when you're not using weights.

 

Wow! I would not have expected to see the wheels themselves actually cracking. Though I suppose, if something was going to break, I'd much rather break a wheel, than the axle, or the frame. One is fixed with an easy & comparatively-cheap swap, the others are substantially more involved.

I don't have much context for how abrupt it can be. But my tractor stops smoothly when I let off the forward pedal, but rather abruptly when letting off reverse. And from some reading, this affects the XT3 as well, so I don't think it's just my machine. I'm trying to get a better feel for it, but need some more practice. When I ease off gradually, I often either to too slowly (backing up further than intended), or I stop more abruptly.

Softening that transition would be nice, if there was an easy solution. And I do have to imagine that wheel weights would add some meaningful stress on the tranny, if abruptly letting the tranny's valves stop the machine in reverse. Hopefully not enough to be a problem, but more than when you're not using weights.

Yes, my XT3 is rather aggressive when you let up in reverse. I've heard some complaints but you get used to it and learn to ease up very gently when backing up. My guess is that this is an intentional safety feature to protect kids, pets etc.

 

WOW!...that thing really plows through...I know you did a lot of work getting it right...looks like it paid off

 

Not bad for a piece of MTD junk huh?

 

You don’t really need wheel weights for a garden tractor. You’d only need them when you plowing snow or something related to that.

 

I'm sorry, I should have been more clear... I use this tractor for mowing, a JB bucket for mulch, and a plow for snow. All of it, so I want to better understand the role of wheel weights, suitcase weights or both.

 

Come on man. If nothing but mowing grass maybe. Some of us use them for other things. Right now it's carrying an extra 400 lbs. And clay dirt pushing and digging mud. Try that without extra weight.

 

I have rear wheel weights and chevron tires on my Craftsman GS6500,they put the added weight directly to the ground and do not load my axles. I also had a Johnny Bucket Junior with lift and dump cylinders on front of the tractor. The weight of the bucket along with the loads that I carried loaded the front axles and spindles and I had to replace them twice in 5 years. I removed bucket 5 years ago and the front end is holding up with no visible wear and misalignment. I would not put suitcase weights on the front end of a garden tractor.

 

I would not put suitcase weights on the front end of a garden tractor.

That depends on what you have on the rear hitch. I have a 385 lb tiller that makes steering an exercise in frustration without adding 150 lb of weight to the front.

 

I've needed weight on the front when lifting 400lbs with my rear forklift set on my GT with no loader.

My loader wouldn't do anything without 200lbs of wheelweights. It also needs 2-300lbs of rear hitch ballast when filling the loader bucket.

I put weight where it needs to go and don't put it where it doesn't.

 

Interesting discussion! Though oof, the required amounts of weight are a bit eye opening.

There's been a discussion going in a Craftsman thread, starting here, about homemade weights:
What did you do to or on your Craftsman today?

He made forms, and concrete weights, with handles, to fit his weight box.

I like the idea, for cost, though if possible, I'd like to keep it simpler. Once I can find them in the store, I want to check out these 2.5 gallon Poland Springs containers, $3, they seem like they might have some promise. There's a handle, and the rectangular shape would let you make better use of space.
Poland Spring Brand 100% Natural Spring Water - 2.5 gal Jug

My understanding is concrete is around 20 pounds/gallon, so these would be around 50 pounds each. They'd be bulkier than iron weights, obviously, but cheap. Four of those would be about 200 pounds. And at $12 for the containers, and about $6 per 80-pound bag of concrete, that's around $30 for 200 pounds, or $0.15/pound.

Not as nice, compact, or elegant as iron weights, of course. But something like this, or filling 2-gallon buckets, would at least be an inexpensive way to add weight. You'd need to make a weight box or platform, of course.

 

Interesting discussion! Though oof, the required amounts of weight are a bit eye opening.

There's been a discussion going in a Craftsman thread, starting here, about homemade weights:
What did you do to or on your Craftsman today?

He made forms, and concrete weights, with handles, to fit his weight box.

I like the idea, for cost, though if possible, I'd like to keep it simpler. Once I can find them in the store, I want to check out these 2.5 gallon Poland Springs containers, $3, they seem like they might have some promise. There's a handle, and the rectangular shape would let you make better use of space.
Poland Spring Brand 100% Natural Spring Water - 2.5 gal Jug

My understanding is concrete is around 20 pounds/gallon, so these would be around 50 pounds each. They'd be bulkier than iron weights, obviously, but cheap. Four of those would be about 200 pounds. And at $12 for the containers, and about $6 per 80-pound bag of concrete, that's around $30 for 200 pounds, or $0.15/pound.

Not as nice, compact, or elegant as iron weights, of course. But something like this, or filling 2-gallon buckets, would at least be an inexpensive way to add weight. You'd need to make a weight box or platform, of course.

RO have you considered concrete pavers? $.08/lb. 2x12x12 is 22lbs and $1.88. Or 8"x16" for $1.48. Flat and easily stacked.

 

Oh yeah. If you wanted to be able to move them easily and it agreed with how you decided to carry them you could use some tapcons to mount these to them. Poor man's suitcase weights.

 

Nice, that's basically what I was imagining. Putting a sleeve hitch mount on the box wouldn't take up a lot of space. I haven't measured yet, but I'm hoping that I could make a sleeve hitch mount from 2 pieces of my 2"x3/16"-thick angle, welded to the box.

I need to take a closer look at this, to see what the best approach would be for mounting the box. For now, if I needed to use the weights sooner, I could secure them to the top of the cultivator, and just keep that raised. It's no 3-point or anything, but I really like the options that the sleeve hitch provides.

 

Nice, that's basically what I was imagining. Putting a sleeve hitch mount on the box wouldn't take up a lot of space. I haven't measured yet, but I'm hoping that I could make a sleeve hitch mount from 2 pieces of my 2"x3/16"-thick angle, welded to the box.

I need to take a closer look at this, to see what the best approach would be for mounting the box. For now, if I needed to use the weights sooner, I could secure them to the top of the cultivator, and just keep that raised. It's no 3-point or anything, but I really like the options that the sleeve hitch provides.

Just check the depth on the angle to make sure you can get the hole in and still get your pin in it. The inside of the sleeve hitch is ~ 3.25-3.5" I think. Check my math to be sure though.

Yeah, I use implements for ballast all the time. Weight is weight--even if it's a gravity-challenged buddy standing on the hitch.

I posted these cheap HD pulls in the Craftsman weight thread.

GBGS Spring Loaded Pull Handles with PVC Grip for Tool Box, Trunk, 110lbs/unit Load Bearing, Heavy Duty, Surface Mounted(10 Pack): Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

GBGS Spring Loaded Pull Handles with PVC Grip for Tool Box, Trunk, 110lbs/unit Load Bearing, Heavy Duty, Surface Mounted(10 Pack): Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.com

 

Best to not ask a gravity challenged wife for assistance with the either.

 

I still can't figure out if gravity-challenged means they weigh 50 pounds, or 500.

Regardless, I think it's a good idea to be mindful of who you ask for help with that stuff.

 

Factoryguy, You're scaring the heck out me with your statement, " I will add the suitcase weight for when I am using the bucket" !! READ YOUR MANUAL and put the required amount of ballast on rear of tractor. Even if just pushing snow with your bucket, you never know when you may want to lift your bucket high to, 'just dump it over there.' ROP or not, it's still embarrassing to go in the house in front of wife and kids and say, 'Excuse me, I have to shake this out of my pants leg and change my underwear.'...never mind figuring out how to get the tractor back on 4 wheels and repair possible damage!
Correct ballast is not so much important, it's critical !

WHEW, back to the original post. All the info above is correct. Each weight, where ever it's added, has a critical function: traction or counterbalance. Determine what you need and act accordingly. Bob

 

agreed.... i learnt that lesson the hard way a few yrs back, thankfully it was in a Deere skid steer, but lifted too large a load (full 300gal tote of waste oil to dump in the barrel for the waste oil heater we did it all the time with the 324, this time was using a 318, since found that the 324 had the forestry spec weighted skid pan and about 500# of additional ballast over the 318) got it about 6ft off the ground, and found out real quick how quick things can go wrong without proper ballast... it was fine right up till the point that it wasn't, then it went downhill in a hurry...LOL no pun intended... next thing i know i am trying to lower the load and i am seeing the floor of the shop in front of me...