progress is being made, I have to pull all the hardware back off and clean it up and prep it for paint. I also have to wire up control and limit switches. In addition I have to make proper clevis pins, at this point I have just been using long bolts where the pins shoud be. At this point I have been using a spare deep cycle battery for testing (you can see it in the backround). I am very happy with the performance of the winches for the investment, although the controllers are horribly clumsy. Fortunately I will not be using the supplied controllers when the project is complete. With the bucket, winches (2), steel, tow strap and electrics I have less than $600 in it. When setup for the lifting mode you can raise the bucket to 34 inches above the ground (bottom of bucket) with the bucket remaining level thru the entire lift I will try to get better pictures and possibly some video when I have it completed.
DIY_Guy
Swisher Bucket project
1 reading
progress is being made, I have to pull all the hardware back off and clean it up and prep it for paint. I also have to wire up control and limit switches. In addition I have to make proper clevis pins, at this point I have just been using long bolts where the pins shoud be. At this point I have been using a spare deep cycle battery for testing (you can see it in the backround). I am very happy with the performance of the winches for the investment, although the controllers are horribly clumsy. Fortunately I will not be using the supplied controllers when the project is complete. With the bucket, winches (2), steel, tow strap and electrics I have less than $600 in it. When setup for the lifting mode you can raise the bucket to 34 inches above the ground (bottom of bucket) with the bucket remaining level thru the entire lift I will try to get better pictures and possibly some video when I have it completed.
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that looks good to me , how about some pictures of the other side , and closeup of the winch mount .
silver hair deere
silver hair deere
Did you reinforce the frame? Very interesting job. All the load will be on the frame and the spindles (the weak links).
Thanks to all for the nice comments.
I won't have any more pictures until I get it painted and mounted back up because I took it apart last night to prep and paint it. I doubt if I will get that done before Friday when I leave on a two week "four wheelin" trip with my son. When it is done I will get more detailed pics from all angles and closeups of both whinch mounts.
I expect that I can safwely carry 250 lbs. in the bucket. I tested it by raising it up and down while I was standing in the bucket (190 lbs,) with probably 40-50 lbs of my son's truck parts. Then I bounced up and down without any problems exept that the tractor wouldn't have had any traction on the back wheels untl weight has been added there.
To answer the Professor's question: Yes, I reinforced the frame! One of the reasons I went with this design is that the bucket is carried several inches closer to the frame than would be possible otherwise. That should reduce the leverage forces which are aplied to the frame. I know that the spindles and frame are the weak links (see the Bent Frame thread in this forum). If there is a way to mount a front bucket on a GT without the forces biing applied to the frame an spindles maybe you could enlighten me as to how it would be done.
Also before someone asks; Yes, I can open the hood. I have to put the bucket on the ground and pull 2 clevice pins and the frame folds down out of the way.
I won't have any more pictures until I get it painted and mounted back up because I took it apart last night to prep and paint it. I doubt if I will get that done before Friday when I leave on a two week "four wheelin" trip with my son. When it is done I will get more detailed pics from all angles and closeups of both whinch mounts.
I expect that I can safwely carry 250 lbs. in the bucket. I tested it by raising it up and down while I was standing in the bucket (190 lbs,) with probably 40-50 lbs of my son's truck parts. Then I bounced up and down without any problems exept that the tractor wouldn't have had any traction on the back wheels untl weight has been added there.
To answer the Professor's question: Yes, I reinforced the frame! One of the reasons I went with this design is that the bucket is carried several inches closer to the frame than would be possible otherwise. That should reduce the leverage forces which are aplied to the frame. I know that the spindles and frame are the weak links (see the Bent Frame thread in this forum). If there is a way to mount a front bucket on a GT without the forces biing applied to the frame an spindles maybe you could enlighten me as to how it would be done.
Also before someone asks; Yes, I can open the hood. I have to put the bucket on the ground and pull 2 clevice pins and the frame folds down out of the way.
DIY_Guy that looks great! A few of the things I like are the simple design, the bucket mounted close to the tractor (as you mentioned), and the added height so you can feasibly dump things into a pile.
I think Professor was recounting instances posted on this site and others where GT's equipped with FEL's ran into issues with the front spindles, usually those with 3/4" diameter spindles. The heavier GT's seemed to used 1" spindles and that seems to be the preferred equipment for FEL equipped GT's. Not sure what your machine came with, but if you ever run into problems you can rebuild or reinforce with the fabrication skills you've got!
Keep us posted on further progress, and more pics would be great both of the loader and action shots.
David
I think Professor was recounting instances posted on this site and others where GT's equipped with FEL's ran into issues with the front spindles, usually those with 3/4" diameter spindles. The heavier GT's seemed to used 1" spindles and that seems to be the preferred equipment for FEL equipped GT's. Not sure what your machine came with, but if you ever run into problems you can rebuild or reinforce with the fabrication skills you've got!
Keep us posted on further progress, and more pics would be great both of the loader and action shots.
David
David, Your points are well taken. My GT has 1" spindles on the back (this GT has the heaviest Hydro that Husqvarna offers), but only 3/4" up front. I have checked as much as possible and Husky doesn't appear to make anything with 1" front spindles. I am of course aware that this is a potential problem area but hope to deal with it by using good judgement when operating the bucket. Better to make two trips than overload one and break something.
I don't really consider it to be a FEL, just a bucket with extended capabilities. Lifting much of anything is an issue with me and I wanted to be able to use the bucket to lift and move small heavy objects in and out of my pickup bed.
I am vacationing in Utah for another week, but hope to get back to work on it when I get home. I will try to get more pictures up as soon as possible including some sub assembly pics. The frame support is such that you could bolt this thing up to a log, throw on a 12v battery and operate the bucket.
Things will still take some time due to my physical limitations, but I will get it done.
Mike
I don't really consider it to be a FEL, just a bucket with extended capabilities. Lifting much of anything is an issue with me and I wanted to be able to use the bucket to lift and move small heavy objects in and out of my pickup bed.
I am vacationing in Utah for another week, but hope to get back to work on it when I get home. I will try to get more pictures up as soon as possible including some sub assembly pics. The frame support is such that you could bolt this thing up to a log, throw on a 12v battery and operate the bucket.
Things will still take some time due to my physical limitations, but I will get it done.
Mike
Just got home from Utah on Saturday. While there I fell on the rocks (4-wheelin' in MOAB) and banged up my one good arm pretty good, fortunately nothing got broke, but pretty sore yet. Still, I hope to get started on paint prep this afternoon and have it reassembled by the weekend. I will post more pics then if I don't get any pics of the subassemblies done while painting.
Here is the update: Most of the painting is finished so I am ready to start reassembling everything. Because there was some discussion regarding reinforcement of the tractor frame I have included a couple of pictures of the subframe assembled off the tractor. The first picture is the basic frame, the second has one of the outside supports from which the bucket assembly will pivot. The entire mechanism (including the winches) is mounted to this frame which would support the bucket if bolted to anything with enough weight. The subframe will attached to the tractor frame with 16 bolts. The crossmember on the back of the subframe runs accross the top of the tractor frame just behind the engine block. It was added after seeing Sirwin's post on his bent frame (thank you Sirwin). Just for grins I included a pictuere of the winch contactors I will be using in the control circuit.
I should have it completely reassembled by tomorrow, but will not have the control circuit done by then as I need to make a trip to town for some wire and switches. look for another update on Saturday.
I should have it completely reassembled by tomorrow, but will not have the control circuit done by then as I need to make a trip to town for some wire and switches. look for another update on Saturday.
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Sorry guys (and gals), I know I promised an update today but I haven't accomplished as much as I had hoped. I could probably come up with a number of excuses, but the bottom line is that I overestimated how much I could accomplish in a couple of days. That is a mistake that I often make these days despite my best effort to make conservative estimates. Of course I always under estimate the pain that will be the product of the task at hand.
The good news is that we went to town today and I was able to find the electical supplies that I needed. The bad news is that I could not find clevis pins in the size and lengths that I needed, so I will have to make my own. As they always say, the devil is in the details.
I still "hope" to be finished in the next couple of days, but whenever it is done I will post an update with pictures.
BTW, Carl, I stand corrected. What you say about adding weight to the back is true and I do expect to add weight in the back, but I was thinking of possibly wheel weights. I not a math/physics wiz, but maybe you can tell me how many pounds I have to add out back to take each pound of the front spindles. In this senario the back axle (hydro) becomes the pivot point for the weight that is transfered. Considering the distance between the back axle and the weight up front in respect to the distance to weights added to the back it would be my uneducated guess that it would be a ratio of 3 or 4 to 1. Would this not cause excessive stress to the hydro? The reason I like the idea of wheel weights is because you get the benefit of addition weight without the stress to the hydro's wheel bearings. I am probably the least knowledgable member on the forum with regards to tractors and would seriously like to know if my thinking is flawed? I know that using a bucket on the front of a newer (ie; flimsy) tractor is is probably asking for trouble, but I would think repairing the front spindles would be easier than repairing a damaged hydro? In the end I may not have a choice but to add weight out back to make steering easier as I have to do it with one arm, an arm which itself is not funtioning 100%.
Advice is always welcome, Please.
The good news is that we went to town today and I was able to find the electical supplies that I needed. The bad news is that I could not find clevis pins in the size and lengths that I needed, so I will have to make my own. As they always say, the devil is in the details.
I still "hope" to be finished in the next couple of days, but whenever it is done I will post an update with pictures.
BTW, Carl, I stand corrected. What you say about adding weight to the back is true and I do expect to add weight in the back, but I was thinking of possibly wheel weights. I not a math/physics wiz, but maybe you can tell me how many pounds I have to add out back to take each pound of the front spindles. In this senario the back axle (hydro) becomes the pivot point for the weight that is transfered. Considering the distance between the back axle and the weight up front in respect to the distance to weights added to the back it would be my uneducated guess that it would be a ratio of 3 or 4 to 1. Would this not cause excessive stress to the hydro? The reason I like the idea of wheel weights is because you get the benefit of addition weight without the stress to the hydro's wheel bearings. I am probably the least knowledgable member on the forum with regards to tractors and would seriously like to know if my thinking is flawed? I know that using a bucket on the front of a newer (ie; flimsy) tractor is is probably asking for trouble, but I would think repairing the front spindles would be easier than repairing a damaged hydro? In the end I may not have a choice but to add weight out back to make steering easier as I have to do it with one arm, an arm which itself is not funtioning 100%.
Advice is always welcome, Please.
I don't think that the wheel weights will do what you want -- the idea being to pull down on the back of the frame behind the rear axle, thus pulling up on the front of the frame (because it's pivoting around the rear axle), to take up some of the load that the bucket puts on the machine. Putting the weight directly on the wheels does not pull on the frame, and thus does nothing to the load on the front axles.
If you mentioned how much weight you intend to carry, I missed it... so just how bad will the loading be on the front axles?
Oh, and what kind of tires do you have on it (2-ply? 4-ply?) ?
By at least an order of magnitude...
If you mentioned how much weight you intend to carry, I missed it... so just how bad will the loading be on the front axles?
Oh, and what kind of tires do you have on it (2-ply? 4-ply?) ?
Thanks guys for the kind words of advice and encouragement. I didn't expect that wheel weights would unload the front spindles, I was just thinking of traction. I had figured on adding some weight to the back of the frame as well. I honestly haven't looked at the number of plys on the tires yet because I figured I would need to change them out to ags. My first priority was to get the bucket working. Then I will add weights and tires as finances allow. I too have had the idea of electric power steering running around in my head, but just haven't conceptualized it yet. A powerful servo motor would probably work but I think would be expensive and hard to find. I think there must be a way to use a linear actuator. I know that some new cars are using steering by wire, maybe I should look into what makes them tick? If you have any thoughts on the subject, I would be more than happy to listen.
Back on the subject of weights. I have a 15 gallon sprayer that I want to make a rear mounted rack for and I'm thinking when I am using the the bucket I could simply fill it with water. 15 gallons translates into roughly 120 pounds, what do you think?
With regards to how much weight the bucket will carry: I think it could handle 250# as a max limit, but I intend to try and keep the loads closer to 150# or less. During the prototype testing phase I lifted about 240# while most of the welds were just tacked. With materials such as rocks and dirt it will be difficult to estimate the load, so I figure the best plan is to shoot low and hope I don't stress things too much.
Thanks again, :thanku:
Mike
Back on the subject of weights. I have a 15 gallon sprayer that I want to make a rear mounted rack for and I'm thinking when I am using the the bucket I could simply fill it with water. 15 gallons translates into roughly 120 pounds, what do you think?
With regards to how much weight the bucket will carry: I think it could handle 250# as a max limit, but I intend to try and keep the loads closer to 150# or less. During the prototype testing phase I lifted about 240# while most of the welds were just tacked. With materials such as rocks and dirt it will be difficult to estimate the load, so I figure the best plan is to shoot low and hope I don't stress things too much.
Thanks again, :thanku:
Mike
I agree with Mark777, use it as is and if you break something, fix it then. Here is a link to spindle upgrades if the time comes; http://www.p.f.engineering.50megs.com/photo.html
I would definetely go with the wheel weights, for traction, and then add your water tank, or whatever out back to help counter balance the FEL.
The max static weight that Tuff Torq says to load the rear down with is 697lbs, so you have some room to play with.
I would definetely go with the wheel weights, for traction, and then add your water tank, or whatever out back to help counter balance the FEL.
The max static weight that Tuff Torq says to load the rear down with is 697lbs, so you have some room to play with.
I've contemplated using an old GM power steering box on my MTD,once I get hydraulics hooked up on it (a GM P/S pump..)..doesn't look like an impossible job to make one fit and work,just very time consuming ,making brackets..
Even a MANUAL steering box off an auto would be a 110% improvement over the stock crappy open gear steering 90% of all riding mowers use!..
I put an old manual steering box from an old 50's Dodge step van, on a home built tractor I built,I can steer it with one finger,no matter how much weight I put up front!..there is nothing I hate more on my MTD when using my econo-bucket,than having to wrestle the steering wheel with both hands,and having the gears pop,skip,and jump when I attempt to take sharp turns!..it probably wont be long before it wont steer at all!...especially frustrating,when I need those hands to work the hydro shifter,which is on the fender,and also to control the winch!..need 6 hands to drive the darn thing!..and your arms ache like **** after using it awhile..
Robert
Even a MANUAL steering box off an auto would be a 110% improvement over the stock crappy open gear steering 90% of all riding mowers use!..
I put an old manual steering box from an old 50's Dodge step van, on a home built tractor I built,I can steer it with one finger,no matter how much weight I put up front!..there is nothing I hate more on my MTD when using my econo-bucket,than having to wrestle the steering wheel with both hands,and having the gears pop,skip,and jump when I attempt to take sharp turns!..it probably wont be long before it wont steer at all!...especially frustrating,when I need those hands to work the hydro shifter,which is on the fender,and also to control the winch!..need 6 hands to drive the darn thing!..and your arms ache like **** after using it awhile..
Robert
TeslasBrain, Great Link!!! I have bookmarked it for future use. Thanks for the info on the hydro, but the Husky GTH2648 uses the Hydro-Gear 344-3000. If memory serves me correctly the spec is 700#.
Hammerhead, You obviously know your way around automobiles, you lost me after microprocessor. I was wondering what the bottom line motive device that turns the wheels is, hydraulic motor, electic motor-actuator or some other device?
Tractor-Holic, You have some great ideas. Maybe a manual automotive steering box would work for me? What is an econobucket? I would love to see pictures of your machines, espicially your homebuilt tractor.
Thanks guys,
Mike
Hammerhead, You obviously know your way around automobiles, you lost me after microprocessor. I was wondering what the bottom line motive device that turns the wheels is, hydraulic motor, electic motor-actuator or some other device?
Tractor-Holic, You have some great ideas. Maybe a manual automotive steering box would work for me? What is an econobucket? I would love to see pictures of your machines, espicially your homebuilt tractor.
Thanks guys,
Mike
Little bit... my brother's the real car genius (he's the chief troubleshooter at a Ford dealer in the SF Bay area). I'm a software guy; specializing on the Mac; but I do dabble in DIY electronics, robotics, and CNC stuff...
Standard power steering on a car is hydraulic, with a servo valve controlling an actuator (either a ram or a rotary actuator driving the rack-and-pinion mechanism). Electric, as found on some of the newer cars (off the top of my head, the Mazda RX8 is one) uses a high-torque electric motor to boost the force that the driver is putting into the steering box; the load cell senses the force on the steering wheel (how hard the driver is pushing it), the microprocessor figures out how much additional force needs to be put in (taking into account speed, wheel angle, etc), and the H-bridge is (now, this is an over-simplified explanation, but...) a gizmo that takes the low-voltage, low-current signal from the microprocessor and steps it up to the required voltage and amperage to drive the motor (the reason it's called an H-bridge is because the schematic for it looks like an H, with the motor being in the middle of the H, and transistors being the "legs" of the H; it also handles reversing the polarity of the motor to make it go the other way).
It's finished as of about two hours ago. Too late for pictures but will get some up as soon as possible. It's supposed to rain here tomorrow, so it may be Wednesday before I can get it out of the carport. I have lot's of things in mind to do to it now, but the wife needs a new/bigger building for her sewing business and that needs to get started next. Hmm... I wonder how many ways I can find to involve the tractor in that? Also traditionally anytime I do a project for her I seem to run up against a problem that can only be resolved with a new tool of some kind, so I need to start thinking about that!
Mike,I got the idea from here in the "home built accessories" forum on how to build the "Econo-Bucket"..it's very similar to the Johnny Bucket,only simpler,easier to build..it uses a plow blade as the "foundation" and you build a swinging clamshell "bucket" that attaches with pins to the plow blade..
I'd post a link to the thread,but I can't seem to get it to work..if you search "Econo-Bucket" you'll find the thread on how the first guy built one..
I'm using a winch to lift mine so far,but I am planning on converting it to a hydraulic cylinder someday when I gather up all the stuff to do it..been VERY handy so far around the yard!..
I'd say a manual steering box is an improvement over the junk stock steering on most riding mower/tractors,but if your going through all the work to add a REAL steering box,why not go all the way and get a power steering box?..many older cars and trucks had "integral" power steering boxes that are fairly easy to adapt to other applications..a lot easier if your machine already has a hydraulic pump though..but not impossible to add if it lacks one..
Robert
I'd post a link to the thread,but I can't seem to get it to work..if you search "Econo-Bucket" you'll find the thread on how the first guy built one..
I'm using a winch to lift mine so far,but I am planning on converting it to a hydraulic cylinder someday when I gather up all the stuff to do it..been VERY handy so far around the yard!..
I'd say a manual steering box is an improvement over the junk stock steering on most riding mower/tractors,but if your going through all the work to add a REAL steering box,why not go all the way and get a power steering box?..many older cars and trucks had "integral" power steering boxes that are fairly easy to adapt to other applications..a lot easier if your machine already has a hydraulic pump though..but not impossible to add if it lacks one..
Robert
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