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2 GT's, 235 and 245

23K views 71 replies 6 participants last post by  Cannon51  
#1 ·
I pick up 2 more project tractors last night. I really didn't need them but I couldn't pass them up. Both have missing hoods, torn up seats, tires that need tubes and neither is running. I first saw these 4 years when I helped a buddy of mine clear some downed trees at his dad's house after the storms in 2011. They have been setting behind his house uncovered since then. I saw him at the gas station yesterday and he made me a good price on them. I got them home and checked the oil, hooked the battery cables to them to see if they would turn over. The 245 (Kawa- 1020 hrs) cranked but wouldn't start. I removed the air cleaner, removed the gas line from the fuel pump and put a line in a bottle of gas. Then put a little gas in the carb and it ran for a few seconds. It would never pick up the gas from the pump. I found a tar like substance in the carb at the choke plate.
The 235 (Vanguard-912 hr) will engage the starter but the engine does not turn. I can turn the engine by hand and started to remove the plugs and try it but there was a lot of crap packed under the tins at the plug hole. I'm going to have to remove the shroud and tins to clean that out.
I don't have any plans for them they just kinda landed in my lap. I may sell one to finance fixing the other, I like GT's but they are a little more expensive the fix than LT's.
Cannon
 

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#3 ·
I took the air filter housing off the 245 so I could get to the carb a little better. I sprayed carb cleaner in the air passages and it ran badly for about 5 minutes. I'm going to have to take the carb off and clean it out.
I never could get the starter to engage on the 235 so I took the shroud off so I could see if the starter gear was coming up. It was not, so I removed it and tested it with a battery. I hooked the red cable to the solenoid and used a screwdriver to put power to the spade connector. Maybe I should put the red jumper cable directly to the starter side of the solenoid. It's awful hot to be fooling with junk mowers in GA this week.
Ray have you had the 2 barrel carb on your Kawa apart?
Cannon
 

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#4 ·
Many times unfortunately. When I first got the unit it had been sitting. IIRC I took it all the way apart and soaked it and used new gaskets on the rebuild. I also discovered that somewhere along the way somebody had removed the "idle mixture screw anti tamper cover". What they actually pried out was a cover over the transition slot well. Needless to say the motor wasn't going to run well. I turned a new cap on the lathe and epoxied it into place.

THe motor ran ok for about a year of occasional use and then started running super lean. Surging up and down. Pulled the bowl, no issues, couldn't find any reason for it. Evenually I put in much larger main jets and the thing ran great. Again iirc, the manual call for 105ish jets [ larger on one side, shorthand here], mine had 115s and I ended up with a 135 and a 137.5 out of Mikuni motorcycle carbs [ I have lots of mc jets from the old days ].

I didn't use the machine enough and occasionally had to pull the bowl to get rid of the ethanol crystals that form not to mention the honey consistency [ but gritty] old gas in the bowl. When I started buying multiple dead GXs the GT got sold [ about a month ago ]. I got good at pulling the bowl with the carb still bolted to the intake. I also started doing an "Italian Tune Up" [ used to mess with Fiats ]. Sometimes the motor would run for 5 or 10 mins and then start running poorly. I guessed it was bad gas or a bubble of water in the main jet. I would rev the motor to max rpm and then hit the choke full on and let the rpm drop as low as I dared and then let off the choke and let the motor eventually clear out the excess fuel and rev back up. 3 to 5 of these treatments and the motor would then run like a top the rest of the day. MY theory was that by hitting the choke I was forcing the small amount of bad gas or water to be sucked through the jets and into the motor. All it takes is the smallest bubble of water in the main jet to stop the motor. It most always won't suck it through on it's own in normal running conditions. Hitting the choke at high rpm creates a massive low pressure area in the venturi which sucks all the crap through the jets. THat's my theory. Seemed to work.

When I sold the unit I pulled the bowl and cleaned it out good just to make sure the new owners had no issues. Adj'ed the valves, replaced the crankcase breather cover and gasket, etc. They are extremely happy with the machine.

You will also notice that there is a throttle limiter on the butterfly shaft. The butterflies will only open to about 1/3 throttle. Weird. The 2 bbl carb issues on the "big block Kawasakis" [FH601V and up ] is one reason why I like the small block Kawis [ FH541V/580V and smaller ]. The SB have 1 bbl carbs. The cylinders fire one at a time why have 2 venturis for a 3600 rpm motor? This ain't a Ducati. There are also some oiling differences but for homeowner use they probably are moot although with lots of hours I would be checking for wear on the top main bearing especially if the motor looks to have been leaking or burning oil.
 
#5 ·
You can use a junk screwdriver to jump across the large solenoid studs to bypass the solenoid. Sparks will fly so make sure you don't have flammables nearby, carb cleaner, brake cleaner, spilled gas, etc. I had to do this to that LT180 to verify that the solenoid was a dead duck. This was a remote solenoid not starter mounted so I was able to use a spare one I had off some other dead JD.
 
#9 ·
Yesterday afternoon when I quit fooling with the 235 I did put some 3 in 1 oil on the bendix and shaft. This morning it would turn so I thought it was fixed. I put it on the tractor and while it would spin it would never come up into the flywheel. I took the starter apart, greased the bearings, cleaned the crud out of it and put it back together. I think regular starters use centrifugal force to get the gear up into the flywheel but this one has an arm on the solenoid that pushes it up. After I got it back on the tractor it turned the engine over and with a little gas squirted in the carb it ran for a few seconds. I rigged up a bottle of gas because the fuel lines from the tank are all to pieces. It cranked and ran on choke but not with it off. I started taking the carb bowl off and noticed the fuel solenoid wire was missing, after I got it out I saw where the plunger had been cut off. Cleaned the bowl out and sprayed carb cleaner in various holes and put it back together. It cranked and ran. I drove it around the yard about 10 minuets until one of the steering linkage arms came off the ball. I got it back to the garage and shut it off. I was surprised how much gas it used . In about 15 minutes of running it used half a bottle of gas. I need to get the shroud back on, change fuel lines and filter, change oil and filter, air filters and get tubes in the tires. The 2 back tires are flat an hour after their aired up. Notice the battery cable adapters, is there a 'Hack of The Day' award.
Cannon
 

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#10 ·
I use the small batts in all my GT and GX units. The cheapest $20 one Wally sells. Works just fine. I actually think the big batts put out a lot of corrosive gas and are more prone to spill electrolite which rusts the dash support structure. Every GX I've ever fooled with had a rusty batt area, even the ones that didn't catch on fire !!! :thThumbsU :sidelaugh :sidelaugh :hide:

If there was a good coating of crud in the float bowl it may be that the float needle is not controlling the fuel flow properly which makes the motor run rich. You may also have obstructed air correction orifices which cause the same issue. Be forewarned that Briggs Vanguard parts are amazingly expensive. Iirc the carb kit is $90 something :wow: You might can get by with just the bowl gasket, intake manifold and air filter housing gaskets.

If the motor doesn't seem to be burning oil it would be worth the money to do an extensive refurb and get the unit operating properly. You could do one of my Hot Rod Hood conversions to help with the cosmetics. It's been my experience that you can't get a good price without a decent looking hood. A new hood top is $140 and some LT hood graphics are about $20 and about $30 worth of alum at Lowes. You probably have fasteners already.

When I sold my GT245 I put new aftermarket spindles on the 48C deck I refurbed and genuine JD idlers, belt and blades. I spent $500 or more on the thing just doing the deck, upper hood and minor motor stuff. This on top of the major refurb I did a couple of years ago on the running gear [ including drag link ends :) . Sold it for $2300 to some happy buyers.
 
#11 ·
This morning I took the rear tires and deck off. I took the tires to get tubes put in them and washed the deck at the 25 cent car wash. One of the spindles on the deck would not turn until I used the blade to work it back and forth. I need to get a wire brush in the pulley groves and clean out the rust. I had a hard time getting the spring pins pulled on the deck, looks like the hanger has worn a little. I got all the covers back on the engine but nether of the local auto parts stores had any 1/4 inch fuel line so I didn't get them changed. Looks like I'm missing a spring on the deck.
Cannon
 

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#13 ·
I got the deck up on some horses this morning and got the blades off, it was all I could do to break the bolts loose with a pull handle. The baffle is broke loose on the front where the clamp is, I'll dob on that some when I work on the lift arm. I need the blade bolt torque or better yet a PDF of the 48C deck manual. The deck is not nearly as beat up as some of the others I have but the PO has a big smooth yard.
Cannon
 

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#15 ·
After church today I sharpened and installed the blades, drove the GT235 to get the cart, moved the deck to the shed where the welder is and welded the loose baffle in the deck. Then hauled some stuff back to the garage. I used it about 20 minuets and it did fine except the battery light would come on and stay on for a while then go back off. I checked the battery voltage once when the light was on and it was 14+ volts. Also with the fuel solonoid cut off it tries to keep running when I cut the switch off. I bought a 4 inch wire brush for my drill last night at the mart to work on the pulley groves with. I hope to get this one operational this week and get on the GT345.
Cannon
 

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#18 ·
went out this morning and cleaned the rust out of the pulleys and idlers, installed the new secondary belt, welded the hole in the lift lever and was going to move the tractor in and put the deck back on. The the tractor would not crank. I spun so fast I decided to check the compression, nothing on either side. After making sure the pistons were moving I removed the valve cover and found one intake push rod laying loose and the other out on the cam end. neither looked bent. I got them back in and it cranked right up. I cranked it 3 or 4 more times and decided to get that old oil out of it and changed the oil and filter. then no crank again. I removed the covers and found both intake push rods bent. Both intake valves are very sticky, I can tap them in a little and they will not always come back out. I'm surprised this happened after it had been run for a while, and on both sides.
Cannon
 

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#19 ·
If I were you, I would replace the two intake valves and pushrods now. Then clean the tank and replace all the fuel lines and only use pure gas from now on.

Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada


The valves sticking is caused by the ethanol **** we get today. It gums up the stems and cause them to stick and then bend the pushrods.

I only use pure gas now and add some oil like Marvel Mystery Oil or two cycle oil to it so it will keep the valves lubed.
 
#20 ·
I saved an early 90's Simplicity LTH12.5 from the scrap metal yard. It had { has actually } a Vanguard that was partly disassembled. VCs off, pushrods out, intake off iirc, etc. Heads still on. The intake valves were stuck open in the guides. I could see that the intake valve stems had several tiny rust pits on them. I sprayed in some penetrating oil and tapped the valve tips with a plastic mallet. In short order the valves were working freely. I let the pene oil do it's thing for a day or so occasionally opening the valves all the way. I then blew all the oil out of the intake ports and reassembled the motor with any necessary new parts and gaskets. Probably cleaned the carb.

The motor ran like a top and I used the machine on my own yard for a couple of years and then sold it to the guy across the street where it's still going strong.

I think the valve stems are not plated and when the motor sits they develop the rust. Since the valve stem to guide clearance is less than a thou' the valves stick in the guide. Running the motor won't fix it because the action of the fuel in the air isn't going to remove the pits like pene oil. The ideal fix would be to replace the valves but pulling the intake and doing the pene oil thing may work for you like it did for me.
 
#21 ·
I've got the intake valve on the right bank freed up, I can move it in and out buy hand. The left one is still tight but better. I straightened the push rods best I could and put them back in. I cranked it through with the plugs out and the right push rod stayed in but the left fell out every time. From what I have read this almost had to be caused by bad gas (both at once) but I first cranked it with another tank and purged all the old gas from the tank. All I can figure is that there was enough varnish or whatever in the tank and lines to get in the fresh gas and gum up the intake valves. I'm going after lunch to pickup 2 more push rods.
Cannon
 
#22 ·
If you don't get the valves completely freed up and the existing varnish and rust removed from the stems then all the running in the world won't remove it. All you will do is add more. Your new pushrods also will have short life. Removing the intake is an easy job especially if you leave the carb on the intake. The 2 gaskets won't cost much.
 
#23 ·
This morning I checked both intake lifters and both were free so I put the new rods on. I used a Seafoam bottle to run it off of and let it run about 5 minutes, then I used a squirt bottle to put Seafoam in the carb 2 or 3 times. The last time I cut it off just after I squirted the Seafoam and lit it set for 15 minutes. I drained the gas out of the tank, what I put in fresh less than a week ago smelled like it was 2 years old. I put the deck on to try it out and make sure the PTO was working. I mowed about 100 feet and it looked OK but there is a lot of bearing noise coming from the deck. What can I put in the tank to clean the crap out.
Cannon
 

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#24 ·
Yesterday I drove the 235 out of the garage and hauled the 245 in. This morning I removed the deck, put a tube in one front tire, and started trying to get the bowl off the carb. I have a 90 degree screwdriver but the screws seemed tight so I removed the carb. I blew out all the passages I could find, cleaned the bowl (not any trash just a little water) and put it back together. I don't think I could ever get that oring gasket back in right with the carb on the engine. I got it cranked and drove it out of the garage but didn't go far because the carb was trying to flood the whole time. I guess it needs to come back off to see if I got the float/needle back in right.
This deck has a lot more rust than the other on, The left idler in the picture is bent out of the plane of the other pulleys and the front baffle is broke loose in the same place as the other deck. I don't know what's going on with that piece of PVC.
Cannon
 

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#26 ·
I took the carb back off and apart. The needle looked OK and the seat was only slightly tarnished, float was level when carb was held upside down. I took a Qtip and some toothpaste and worked on the seat until it was "Gleaming" and put it back together. It cranked and ran good after I nursed it with the choke for a few seconds. I took it on a little test drive and noticed that this one is much slower in reverse than the 235, forward about the same. I'm running it on the bottle, not going to hook this one to the tank until I get it cleaned out and new lines on it.
Cannon
 
#27 ·
Today I removed the fender pan and gas tank then loaded it on the trailer for a trip to the car wash. I had drained all I could from the tank earlier but There was still some in it. When I got it off I got a bottle and funnel and poured what was left in the tank in it. It looks like chicken broth that has separated. I was going to leave the down tube in the tank but the grommet had turned to mush and needs to be replaced. It was nasty under the fender but I've seen worse.
Cannon
 

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