I have a Craftsman GT 5000 garden tractor with a dozer blade for plowing snow. I have chains and 55lb wheel weights on each of the rear wheels. I want to improve traction and have considered mounting dumbell weights to the support assembly from my grass catcher attachment which attaches to the drawbar. However, the support assembly bends inward so the weights sit high almost to the bottom of the seat. Does this present a safety factor? Would it be better if the weights were mounted lower using a different method of attachment? Would it affect the center of gravity and/or improve traction?
Adding weight to garden tractor to improve traction
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blrozner
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If they are designed to take it, then it should not be a problem.
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The only downside to wheel weights is taking them on and off in order to change trires. If you go on that theory, then chains are a downside because their added weight causes stress on the transaxle too. Not happening.
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I've NEVER seen or heard about a broken transaxle caused by wheel weights on a 8 mph speed limited lawn tractor. this is another internet legend.
and about the suitcase weights; if mounted behind the rear axle, the weight will ALL go to the rear tires and even more with the lever effect stealing weight from the front axle.
but standing on the sleeve hitch will add more than your 250lbs to the rear axle and reduce weight over the front.
I added a 300lbs rear snowblower on my 900lbs Massey-Ferguson MF-12. Previously the 900 lbs was distributed like 600lbs on the rear axle and 300 lbs on the front. Now with the rear snowblower weight on the sleeve hitch, I have less than 50lbs on the front axle (I can lift the front with 1 hand) so I can say around 1150 pounds of the tractor and blower are on the rear axle when the snowblower is lifted off the ground.
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"Smog" said:
If those suitcase weights are attached directly to the axle then ALL or almost ALL their weight will be transferred to the ground via the tires BUT if they are attached to a bracket that is attached in anyway to the frame, then ALL their weight is not transferred to the ground. A great deal of it would be but not ALL.
Now, if you stand on the sleeve hitch, you will indeed lessen the amount of down-pressure exerted on the front wheels but since you are standing on the sleeve hitch, which is mounted to the frame, much of your weight will be dispersed througout the frame.
Let's cut to the chase. The most effective way to add weight to the rear tires is via weights installed directly to the tires/wheels and fluid in the tires. That's my .02¢ anyway.
"Rim-Guard" (first told to the forum (MTF) by "JDFANATIC") is very good and windshield washer fluid is good too along with calcium cloride.
The use of anti-freeze is just plain irresposible.
We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one "Smog".
If those suitcase weights are attached directly to the axle then ALL or almost ALL their weight will be transferred to the ground via the tires BUT if they are attached to a bracket that is attached in anyway to the frame, then ALL their weight is not transferred to the ground. A great deal of it would be but not ALL.
Now, if you stand on the sleeve hitch, you will indeed lessen the amount of down-pressure exerted on the front wheels but since you are standing on the sleeve hitch, which is mounted to the frame, much of your weight will be dispersed througout the frame.
Let's cut to the chase. The most effective way to add weight to the rear tires is via weights installed directly to the tires/wheels and fluid in the tires. That's my .02¢ anyway.
"Rim-Guard" (first told to the forum (MTF) by "JDFANATIC") is very good and windshield washer fluid is good too along with calcium cloride.
The use of anti-freeze is just plain irresposible.
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so explain to me how I can lift the front end of a 900lbs garden tractor with one hand something I couldn't do before I added the 300lbs blower on the sleeve hitch, having most of the 300lbs about 24 inches away from the rear axle. If I only need 50lbs of force to lift the front, the remaining of the weight must be on the rear axle, meaning adding the 300lbs blower added close to 550lbs to the rear axle.
the weight must go somewhere; if it's not on the front axle anymore, it IS on the rear axle. and that's exactly why they add weight on the front bumper of tractors with rear implements.
:goodl:
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Yep, I see it. I'm just saying that not ALL the weight on a frame mounted bracket is not transferred to the wheels.
If you have a truck that weighs 4000 lbs, then if you go by your logic then each wheel has 1000 pounds of weight on it and further that if you sit directly above any tire (say on a fender) on the truck then your weight will all go to the wheel you are sitting over. Ain't gonna happen.
I guess I'm not talking errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr typing plain enough and I guess I'm not getting you guys.
Leave it at that and have a merry Christmas.
If you have a truck that weighs 4000 lbs, then if you go by your logic then each wheel has 1000 pounds of weight on it and further that if you sit directly above any tire (say on a fender) on the truck then your weight will all go to the wheel you are sitting over. Ain't gonna happen.
I guess I'm not talking errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr typing plain enough and I guess I'm not getting you guys.
Leave it at that and have a merry Christmas.
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Sorry, but even as the new guy here, this reasoning is incorrect. Imagine a fixed weight, say, 100lbs. You build a bracket and hang it out the back. You build a "beam" and start moving that 100 lb weight further and further back, maybe, (let's be ridiculous) 10 feet back. I'm thinking that at this point the front of the tractor is going to be OFF THE GROUND. What you find is, that if you can move this weight fore/ aft until the tractor is perfectly balanced, I.E. the front wheels off the ground and the rear weight off the ground, the entire total weight of the machine as well as any other weight "on" the machie as well will be on the back wheels.
I realize fully this is an extreme, ridiculous example. The point is, that WHERE you put the weight determines the effect. This also means, generally speaking, that weight on the rear hitch is "more effective" because it transfers through this teeter effect, some of the weight from the front towards the rear.
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Some time ago I moved my seat all the way back. Wow, what a difference and the traction gets better with every passing year.
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This is a interesting subject. I have been thinking about adding weight to the back of my Wheel horse D 160 for plowing snow. Not sure if i should. I have used pulling garden tractors, in fact i have one. I know the weights should go
over top of the axle as close as posable. If you run the weight back you lose too much off the front end and it wont turn. Putting weight in tires and on wheels, does not put undue stress on axle and bearings. But if you put too
much an the back of the tractor, there is a lot more stress on axle and
bearing. My D160 weights about 900 lbs, 100 lbs wheel weights. chains
56" blade about 100Lbs and me at 200lbs. Thats 1300 Lbs. I was thinking
of maybe another 200 lbs in the rear??? What you think Paul
over top of the axle as close as posable. If you run the weight back you lose too much off the front end and it wont turn. Putting weight in tires and on wheels, does not put undue stress on axle and bearings. But if you put too
much an the back of the tractor, there is a lot more stress on axle and
bearing. My D160 weights about 900 lbs, 100 lbs wheel weights. chains
56" blade about 100Lbs and me at 200lbs. Thats 1300 Lbs. I was thinking
of maybe another 200 lbs in the rear??? What you think Paul
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I may not have said it well in my post, but that is exactly correct. Any drag racer........
440roadrunner - agree your analogy is saying the same. I actually think we may all be in agreement on this. Maybe just a misinterpretation earlier in the post.
Hope I didn't step on your toes by re-iterating. I find when things get confusing it is best to simplify to the lowest form.
Thanks!
Hope I didn't step on your toes by re-iterating. I find when things get confusing it is best to simplify to the lowest form.
Thanks!
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When you hang the weight off the drawbar (back of the tractor) you are essentially creating a first class lever with the rear axle as the fulcrum between the effort force (front implement) and the resistance force (rear weights). I could describe the vectors of the forces involved but I would need markers and an easel.
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I agree but I would just change wording : first option to add weight is via wheel weights... or tire fluids. The reason : most newer lawn and garden tractors got cheapo aluminum case transaxle that won't stand the abuse of adding weight to the tractor frame, supported by the axle tubes.
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I would add the skinny 3/4 or 1" axle shafts on most "tractors" wont like the added stress of adding wheel weights, and fluid in the tires,even if they do only spin at 8 mph at the most,you'll all have to agree the "flywheel effect" WILL add considerable stress to the axle shafts..a lot more!..
I'd say once you get 100+ lbs spinning,even slowly,it'll be MUCH harder to stop than something weighing only 25 lbs would,and will generate a LOT more torque than a unloaded tire & rim with no wheel weights--plus they act like a gyroscope in a way,any imbalance or wobble gets eggagerated greatly,with all the added weight..I've seen axles snap off from the torque of repeated spinning and grabbing when used on an icy asphalt driveway to plow,with wheel weights,loaded tires, and chains..even without any "extra"weight added to the tractor itself..
I agree the cast aluminum transaxle housings wont like having much over 600 lbs total on them too,after seeing how thin they are, when I busted one in two when a tractor fell off the ramps ,when I was loading it into my truck!..the old cast iron ones were weak enough,but MUCH beefier than todays aluminum ones are...
I feel they use much too wimpy transaxles (and chassis!) on many of todays machines,give me the old cast iron ones with hi and lo range anyday..how they expect them to hold up for any length of time if used for dirt or snow plowing with lots of weight on them is beyond me,it's asking for failure,IMO--.
-..that said though,I HAVE been surprised at the amount of abuse a few "wimpy" transaxles took I have had in the past, without failure,but I never put wheel weights or loaded the tires either,just used chains...but more than a few failed wihout much abuse at all too!.
Why they dont just use automotive type trannys like an Economy tractor I dont know,it wouldn't have to be a 1 ton truck one to "live" behind a small engine with 25 hp or less..they aren't much costlier than todays aluminum transaxles are really,in surplus catalogs I see them selling for 300+ bucks!..I've seen brand new Saginaw 3 speed GM trannies sell for about 300 bucks in years past,one of those would probably never fail,if it can pull a 3500 lb car around for 100,000 miles..and making a narrow version of a typical RWD car differential wouldn't cost that much either,once it's tooled up..
I'd think a manufacturer would want to use quality drivetrain parts and get a good reputation going,for ruggedness and dependability,like the Gravely's and Economy tractors--but I guess todays way of thinking is to make it disposeable,no matter how costly it was to buy new...I dont get it!...
This is why I cob my own tractors together from scratch,to use to plow or tow stuff,out of old car parts..for peanuts you can assemble one that will make most of todays tractors look sick!..(One good thing about "disposable" ones though,is they ensure a good supply of good used motors,pulleys,wheels ,etc!,to use on your homebuilts!).
I'd say once you get 100+ lbs spinning,even slowly,it'll be MUCH harder to stop than something weighing only 25 lbs would,and will generate a LOT more torque than a unloaded tire & rim with no wheel weights--plus they act like a gyroscope in a way,any imbalance or wobble gets eggagerated greatly,with all the added weight..I've seen axles snap off from the torque of repeated spinning and grabbing when used on an icy asphalt driveway to plow,with wheel weights,loaded tires, and chains..even without any "extra"weight added to the tractor itself..
I agree the cast aluminum transaxle housings wont like having much over 600 lbs total on them too,after seeing how thin they are, when I busted one in two when a tractor fell off the ramps ,when I was loading it into my truck!..the old cast iron ones were weak enough,but MUCH beefier than todays aluminum ones are...
I feel they use much too wimpy transaxles (and chassis!) on many of todays machines,give me the old cast iron ones with hi and lo range anyday..how they expect them to hold up for any length of time if used for dirt or snow plowing with lots of weight on them is beyond me,it's asking for failure,IMO--.
-..that said though,I HAVE been surprised at the amount of abuse a few "wimpy" transaxles took I have had in the past, without failure,but I never put wheel weights or loaded the tires either,just used chains...but more than a few failed wihout much abuse at all too!.
Why they dont just use automotive type trannys like an Economy tractor I dont know,it wouldn't have to be a 1 ton truck one to "live" behind a small engine with 25 hp or less..they aren't much costlier than todays aluminum transaxles are really,in surplus catalogs I see them selling for 300+ bucks!..I've seen brand new Saginaw 3 speed GM trannies sell for about 300 bucks in years past,one of those would probably never fail,if it can pull a 3500 lb car around for 100,000 miles..and making a narrow version of a typical RWD car differential wouldn't cost that much either,once it's tooled up..
I'd think a manufacturer would want to use quality drivetrain parts and get a good reputation going,for ruggedness and dependability,like the Gravely's and Economy tractors--but I guess todays way of thinking is to make it disposeable,no matter how costly it was to buy new...I dont get it!...
This is why I cob my own tractors together from scratch,to use to plow or tow stuff,out of old car parts..for peanuts you can assemble one that will make most of todays tractors look sick!..(One good thing about "disposable" ones though,is they ensure a good supply of good used motors,pulleys,wheels ,etc!,to use on your homebuilts!).
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again, I have yet to see a failure related to this; flywheel effect is not an issue for a garden tractor
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I admit to not knowing much about such things,but when folks speak of stress on the axle due to wheel wight I have to wonder. The weight of the wheel weight isn't on the perimeter of the wheel - it's incorporated into the wheel;so there wouldn't be 50 lbs. being thrown around. It's not as if it's on a rope being spun around and around. So wouldn't that not be as stressful as some seem to think? Like I said, I'm not too smart about such things. This's more of a question than a statement of fact.
Yeah I do not buy into the flywheel effect at the rate the tire is spinning it would have little impact. I especially do not see how stopping would stress the axle. I could see if one was spinning all that weight wildly on ice with quick directional change, but then only a real fool would do that.
All the weight is on the ground and they essentially stop themselves if you ease off the throttle. I would note that I drive much slower with the wheel weights and loaded tires. I would guess I have never been over 3mph. I don't need to. In the spring I will take the WW off and just used the loaded tires (40 lbs each).
Like others have said - show me a GT that has been damaged by appropriately matched wheel weights or loaded tires. If all this damage and wear is happening it sure is being kept a good secret.
All the weight is on the ground and they essentially stop themselves if you ease off the throttle. I would note that I drive much slower with the wheel weights and loaded tires. I would guess I have never been over 3mph. I don't need to. In the spring I will take the WW off and just used the loaded tires (40 lbs each).
Like others have said - show me a GT that has been damaged by appropriately matched wheel weights or loaded tires. If all this damage and wear is happening it sure is being kept a good secret.
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Stay within the mfg'er recommendations of your particular tractor and there won't be any weight related problems. The last tractor built that could be safely abused by everybody and cartainly was... was the Gravely L. Everything else built since can be considered "wimpy" by those "L" standards of manufacture.
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