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JD 400 with bouncy deck? Mowing too fast?

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somethingclever

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Hello, new to the forum. New home owner looking at tractors/zero turns for spring time. Will be mowing about 3.5 acres of pretty flat land. (for SW PA anyway)

Buddy of mine has a restored JD400 that I test drove the other day. (light dusting of snow at the time!) I was pretty sure I was going to buy it as I know the history of the tractor. It is pretty much all new and it can be had for $2500.

I don't want to spend a couple days a week cutting grass and want something that will mow as fast as possible. Zero turns seem to be faster at mowing but are also more expensive and not as versitile as a big garden tractor.

I took the tractor (JD 400) out in low range with full throttle and full hydro...started going through his yard (i would say typical smoothness for a yard) and the deck seemed really bouncy at this speed. Not sure quite how fast but I would guess 5 mph or less. I noticed the deck has a big roller in the front with only 1 caster wheel on the right side, and nothing on the left side. It has two wheels in the back of the deck. Anyway, I was disappointed in how much the deck was bouncing around at that speed. Is this typical of older 400's? I see newer generation 425/445/455 have a caster wheel on the left side of the deck where it was missing on the 400. Does adding this caster make a big difference on deck smoothness? How about the deck design and mounting to the chassis? Did JD change anything on the newer tractors vs the older 400? Would pneumatic tires on the deck in place of the solid wheels keep the deck from bouncing around so much?

Granted the ground is rock hard right now but I don't believe it would make that much of a difference....

So...did JD redesign the deck wheel arrangement in later tractors (425/445/455) to keep the deck from bouncing around so much?

Can anything be done to the 400 deck to keep it from bouncing around?

This has me looking at a used JD z445 zero turn or possibly a big cub cadet super...

Thanks in advance..:fing32:
 
#2 ·
I have a 400 and find that you want to use the mower in the low range of the 2 spd transmission. When I mow in the low range the deck works just fine and it doesn't beat its self up. If you use it in the high range it tends to beat up the mower deck pretty good unless the yard is like glass. With a 60 inch deck you will cut a pretty good swath. You have to remember the deck weighs close to 200 pounds and you don't want that bouncing around a lot as it will stress the daylights out of the deck components and the components used to mount the deck to the tractor. When I first got the mower I tried to mow like that but didn't like the beating the deck was taking and decided I liked seat time more than I like replacing deck components. If you are going to do anything else beside mowing, I would get the 400 for the price listed. That's a good price if everything has been rebuilt on it, especially the engine.

If you are looking at sheer speed and manueverability then a zero turn is probably the way to go. I have never owned a zero turn but everyone I have ever seen use one, goes like a banshee unless they are on a slope, then the slow way down. If you are going to get a zero turn, then get a Dixie Chopper, they seem to be the best brand out there for Zero turns, at least they price them like that. My former neighbor has one for his lawn cutting business and loves it.
 
#3 ·
That vintage Deere was designed that the deck wheels and rollers not be in contact with the ground when mowing, they should be set up about 1/4 to 1/2" above the ground and hang off the tractor. That would eliminate some of the bouncing.
 
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Discussion starter · #4 ·
bontai Joe said:
That vintage Deere was designed that the deck wheels and rollers not be in contact with the ground when mowing, they should be set up about 1/4 to 1/2" above the ground and hang off the tractor. That would eliminate some of the bouncing.
Click to expand...

Well that is interesting...I don't believe the deck was setup this way.


Do you know if JD made any changes to the mower deck or mounting in later 60" decks? (except for the additional caster wheel of course)
 
#6 ·
To the best of my knowledge, Deere has always recommended the decks hang off the tractor. The wheels are there to touch the ground only if you hit a bump to prevent scalping. Other manufacturers might do it different (Simplicity comes to mind).
 
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Discussion starter · #7 ·
Does anyone mow in high range with their 400/420/430 without beating up the machine too bad?

How fast (mph) does one think I could mow in a (typical) residential yard with a 400?

Basically I don't see myself NEEDING a garden tractor for anything other than cutting grass, but if I can have a garden tractor that mows quickly yet has the capabilities of mounting a plow, then that is better than a zero turn.

Having my cake and eating it too.
 
#8 ·
Sounds like you are interested in going fast and mowing at a fast pace. Tractors mow fast by using large(r) decks and driving at a reasonable pace. Zero turns are meant to fly around the lawn and mow fast through speed and quick, easy turns. If all you are ever going to do with your machine is mow grass, then buy a zero turn.
 
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#10 ·
If your just wanting to mow (fast) and maybe plow your drive then you should look into a front mount Grasshopper. I've got a snow blower for mine and they make a snow blade also.
I've got a JD400 and it's a great tractor. The only problem with the 400 is the turning radius. If your wanting to till or plow a garden then you can deal with it because the 400 is more a true tractor than just a lawn mower. If your just wanting to mow then you'll be doing strange elliptical circles to cut around any trees because of the turning radius. I hate to steer you away from a model 400 because they are a great tractor and I'll probably never get rid of mine but for mowing I wouldn't be happy with anything but my Grasshopper.
It's been awhile since I've had the deck on my 400 but it should have four wheels plus the scalping rollers. One up front and one underneath. The wheels are adjustable for height and the deck should be riding on them. That's probably why it was bouncing because it's lacking a wheel and setting catawampus.
It used to take a couple hours to do mine too but now it's about fourty five minutes.
 
#11 ·
IMHO, full speed is more for transport than for mowing. Any tractor, old or new, is going to bounce around a lot at full speed, ESPECIALLY on frozen ground.

I agree with some of the replies above. If you want/need to mow at that speed, a zero turn might be your best bet. If you want the versatility of a garden tractor, look for one with as big a deck (60" or better) as you can find.
 
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#12 ·
CP7 said:
The wheels are adjustable for height and the deck should be riding on them.
Click to expand...
If you didn't leave out one important word, "not", between deck and should, you really ought to check your information. I've been involved in a few tractor decks and one Z-turn and none of them advocate having the weight of the deck riding on the deck wheels/rollers. What they all do advocate is having the wheels/rollers set some distance, usually 1/4-1/2" off the ground so they serve to lift the deck over high spots.

Other brands may have other ideas on it but both Deere and Exmark, the ones I am familiar with, want those wheels in the air.
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
THanks everyone for your opinions and responses.

That is also interesting about the turning radius and I appreciate that information. I think I read on weekendfreedommachines that the turning radius was improved on 420 models..I will have to go back and re-read that to confirm.

There is a real nice looking 425 for sale near me with a 60" deck and JD snow blade for $3500. I'm just not real sure if I will need the snow blade much since the township actually plows my driveway. :) (last house on dead end steet and no where to turn around except in front of my garage.)

I have three buildings and probably 10 trees to mow around on 3.5 acres...not sure how much time a zero turn would save me over a 400 series garden tractor with 60" deck...
 
#14 ·
CP7 said:
If your just wanting to mow (fast) and maybe plow your drive then you should look into a front mount Grasshopper. I've got a snow blower for mine and they make a snow blade also.
I've got a JD400 and it's a great tractor. The only problem with the 400 is the turning radius. If your wanting to till or plow a garden then you can deal with it because the 400 is more a true tractor than just a lawn mower. If your just wanting to mow then you'll be doing strange elliptical circles to cut around any trees because of the turning radius. I hate to steer you away from a model 400 because they are a great tractor and I'll probably never get rid of mine but for mowing I wouldn't be happy with anything but my Grasshopper.
It's been awhile since I've had the deck on my 400 but it should have four wheels plus the scalping rollers. One up front and one underneath. The wheels are adjustable for height and the deck should be riding on them. That's probably why it was bouncing because it's lacking a wheel and setting catawampus.
It used to take a couple hours to do mine too but now it's about fourty five minutes.
Click to expand...
Not all 400 decks have 4 wheels.... Not all 400 decks have adjustible wheels.

Wheels should not be riding on the ground.


The 425 is a nice machine and will cut really fast and smooth
 
#15 ·
I could (read I'm probably) be wrong Alan but I sure remember the deck riding on the wheels. If I remember right it rode like a three point finish mower on four wheels. Like I said it's probably been a few years since it was even on. You know as well as I do that they're a tractor and not just a mower. Since I've had the Case loader the 400 has sat and didn't start last month when I tried. I do think from what clevers told us the piece of equipment he's needing is a ZTR. It will cut your mowing time in half.
 
Discussion starter · #16 ·
CP7 said:
I do think from what clevers told us the piece of equipment he's needing is a ZTR. It will cut your mowing time in half.
Click to expand...
Well if a zero turn would cut mowing time in half if doing 3.5 acres with 3 buildings and 10 trees, I would definately go zero turn. Considering the lot size, I don't think I really have a whole lot to mow around regarding buildings and trees.
 
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somethingclever
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