I'm getting no snow in the dc area. I lost power last week for three days from the winds. Trees falling down. I had to use a portable generator. A company here quoted me a price for a whole house generator to be installed. 22 KW generac that's fueled by natural gas. I have gas heat so they would tap the gas service. I'm debating on having it done. You can buy a new car for the price they are asking.
Transfer Switches and Interlocks
My craftsman 917.27308
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Why would the meter need to be upgraded in this case? The power from your generator shouldn't be going through the meter...I would think the meter should be disconnected as being part of the "utility side"...
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I would assume the "meter" Larry is talking about is the natural gas meter. I also had to get a bigger gas meter installed when I had my standby generator hooked up. I think I had to pay something but not the $450 Larry mentions.
Isolation switches are designed to provide power to your circuits from one source OR the other... from the grid (normal) ...or... from a generator, but the two are never connected at the same time. It protects linemen from shock sent out through your panel by your genset.. Home Depot used to sell these, they are easy to install with a 240v outdoor plug, and they work. Even has meters to show power flowing in each circuit. Mine covers 5 circuits that I decided were essential during a power outage. I connect the generator to the outdoor plug, fire it up, then on my way back into the house, flip the 5 switches on the transfer box. That's it. My generator is now isolated from the grid and my 5 circuits are powered up. Pretty easy even with sleet pouring down your neck, and the house doesn't even begin to cool down. Older I get, I will likely get a whole house, maybe this year. Thanks for the Ziller posting, I'll check them out.
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If you have access to natural gas - I would not even consider using any other fuel source for a generator.
I know, because I live in a rural area and don't have natural gas lines. My choice was gasoline, diesel, or propane. And all three are a pain for extended outages.
I have a 8k (10k surge) gas generator. I burn through 5-8 gallons of gasoline in 12 hours, and I need to keep it running 24/7 for my well pump. Over a typical 3-day outage, I can use 30+ gallons of gas. So I'm going to a gas station every day with 5 gallon cans.
I considered propane, but was told that it would still be the same unless I got a 200 gallon propane tank. The small 20 lb cylinders are actually only filled to about 18 lbs, and that's enough to last about 12 hours.
Diesel is better for long-term storage, but can gel in the winter and you're still filling diesel cans every day.
Another consideration should be the noise. Inverters are a lot more quiet (and expensive), but will only produce about 3kw unless you have more than one running in parallel. Water-cooled generators are quieter than air-cooled, but cost much more and are usually not portable. So look at the decibels when you compare units. Some are unbearably loud.
I guess you should first decide: 1) Do you need to run it 24/7? 2) How often do you want to refuel it? 3) How much noise can you & neighbors tolerate? 4) Add up the wattage of everything you really need to run (I run my whole house - except dryer & central A/C on 8kw with good power discipline. But I don't need power for my stove or hot water.) 5) How much do you want to spend? Then you can make a better decision about interlocks or transfer switches.
Good luck. Cal in Connecticut
I know, because I live in a rural area and don't have natural gas lines. My choice was gasoline, diesel, or propane. And all three are a pain for extended outages.
I have a 8k (10k surge) gas generator. I burn through 5-8 gallons of gasoline in 12 hours, and I need to keep it running 24/7 for my well pump. Over a typical 3-day outage, I can use 30+ gallons of gas. So I'm going to a gas station every day with 5 gallon cans.
I considered propane, but was told that it would still be the same unless I got a 200 gallon propane tank. The small 20 lb cylinders are actually only filled to about 18 lbs, and that's enough to last about 12 hours.
Diesel is better for long-term storage, but can gel in the winter and you're still filling diesel cans every day.
Another consideration should be the noise. Inverters are a lot more quiet (and expensive), but will only produce about 3kw unless you have more than one running in parallel. Water-cooled generators are quieter than air-cooled, but cost much more and are usually not portable. So look at the decibels when you compare units. Some are unbearably loud.
I guess you should first decide: 1) Do you need to run it 24/7? 2) How often do you want to refuel it? 3) How much noise can you & neighbors tolerate? 4) Add up the wattage of everything you really need to run (I run my whole house - except dryer & central A/C on 8kw with good power discipline. But I don't need power for my stove or hot water.) 5) How much do you want to spend? Then you can make a better decision about interlocks or transfer switches.
Good luck. Cal in Connecticut
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This is the most effective and cheapest transfer switch I've seen. https://www.ebay.com/itm/GE-100X-Ge...0991145284?hash=item43c06c8144:g:z9MAAOSwjyVT0PD7:sc:USPSFirstClass!14616!US!-1
$970 for the solar link is nice but I ain't got that kind of $$$ It will effectively turn off/isolate the main line switch and then power the panel via the input circuit. All you need to add is a generator input box and wire it to you panel with the appropriate size breaker. Now the 15K generator systems are nice but I don't have scads of $$ to blow on something I may never really need. MTF and the internet is important but I may be able to survive without it..
$970 for the solar link is nice but I ain't got that kind of $$$ It will effectively turn off/isolate the main line switch and then power the panel via the input circuit. All you need to add is a generator input box and wire it to you panel with the appropriate size breaker. Now the 15K generator systems are nice but I don't have scads of $$ to blow on something I may never really need. MTF and the internet is important but I may be able to survive without it..
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There are so many varieties of transfer switches and interlocks. They all do the same thing. For example Reliance Controls Pro Tran 2 switches essentially 'load side' style switches which use the existing wiring in your main panel including branch circuits. They interrupt the breakers feed to the branch circuit powering it from the switches buss which is connected to a portable generator, isolating power from the utility. These are the most flexible for a portable generator and for someone with only specific circuits to be powered.
Interlocks employ a non-defeatable bracket between a generator feeder breaker and the main breaker so they cannot both be on simultaneously. They are good in the sense that you can power every circuit in your panel assuming your generator is big enough, but one may have problems with their portable generator, specifically balancing the loads between the two half winding that give you 240VAC. If you have a 5kw genset and 4kw of it is on one winding, it causes the neutral wire to be heavily loaded which can cause it to melt. If you have 2.5kw on one side and 2.5kw on the other, then the neutral is balanced carrying net zero current.
I have also personally installed a 22KW air cooled Generac whole house generator with an automatic transfer switch with 14 branch circuits. The ATS relocates the original breakers in the main panel to the ATS. The large solenoid that switches from utility to generator is lightening quick. When I had the installation inspected, the inspector told me that I needed a ground rod at the generator even though it was a non separately derived system. He approved it after my cousin and I hammered an 8ft copper rod into the dirt!
Interlocks employ a non-defeatable bracket between a generator feeder breaker and the main breaker so they cannot both be on simultaneously. They are good in the sense that you can power every circuit in your panel assuming your generator is big enough, but one may have problems with their portable generator, specifically balancing the loads between the two half winding that give you 240VAC. If you have a 5kw genset and 4kw of it is on one winding, it causes the neutral wire to be heavily loaded which can cause it to melt. If you have 2.5kw on one side and 2.5kw on the other, then the neutral is balanced carrying net zero current.
I have also personally installed a 22KW air cooled Generac whole house generator with an automatic transfer switch with 14 branch circuits. The ATS relocates the original breakers in the main panel to the ATS. The large solenoid that switches from utility to generator is lightening quick. When I had the installation inspected, the inspector told me that I needed a ground rod at the generator even though it was a non separately derived system. He approved it after my cousin and I hammered an 8ft copper rod into the dirt!
We have a local contractor around here who recently started advertising for a Generac Whole House Generator for $7899 Installed.
They are starting to get my attention, lol.
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So after talking to one PSE&G guy today he has never heard of the generlinks before but was going to check on it for me to see if it was doable........
Now the interlockkit may be the way to go to.......maybe.... our electric panel is a square d.
so which system would be safer............cost doesn't matter if it someone will get hurt.
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Grid tie solars employ a disconnect when the utility power goes out as the solar panels and inverter cannot power house loads by itself without the grid power present to backfeed it. Its also for saftey so as not to energize rhe power lines risking injury to linemen. How it senses utility is often on the line side of the main breaker at the meter. If you were to put an interlock or load side transfer switch it should not interfere with the solar. Being on generator power means no solar, which isnt a bad thing.
On that note, not all solar systems are created equal, best to check with the right experts familar with the specific system.
Cheers!
Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
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I should have made myself clearer. I am talking about the gas meter that supplies the fuel for the generator. Gas is measured in column inches and my old gas meter did not meet the requirements needed for the generator
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That is correct. I thought it was very high also. Even the service guy that came out was surprised by the cost. He did the job in about an hour. I had to send them a check before they would even create a work order to have it done. The public utility has the upper hand. No place to appeal. I did tell the engineer that came out to look at it and quoted the price that I thought it was a rip off. I said I feel like I'm paying for the cost of a meter that I will not own. I told him I have a licensed plumber tapping into and running the gas line to the generator so just leave the meter and I'll have him install it when he taps into the line. He wouldn't do it. They came back out about 6 months later and did a leak check and found the line coming out of the ground attaching to the inlet side of the meter was leaking at the meter. They said they would have to send a repair guy out to fix it or shut off my gas, and I would be billed for it. I argued with him that the line coming in was theirs and the meter was theirs and they just installed it 6 months ago. He said he has to follow procedure and I would have to call the main office if I wanted to complain. I asked him if he thought in all honesty this was right. He said off the record, no, but he has no choice. i asked why he was even there, he said they check all their meters periodically. So I asked him if he was done in my area and he said no. I asked him if he would do me a favor and come back tomorrow and check it again as if he wasn't here today. He agreed to do that but if it was still leaking he would have to shut me down. I got it fixed myself that night.
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Well if I were to do this, I have 2 breakers just for the 2 inverters seperate from the regular electric panel, I have 63 solar panels on my house, 1 inverter is for 31 panels and the other inverter is for the other 32 panels.
So as soon as the power goes off I would go out and turn both those breakers off.............and then go to the electric panel and turn all those breakers off.............then go outside start up the generator and connect the cord to either the Generlink or the interlock system.....then go back to the electric panel and turn on whatever breakers I would want on at the time. Does this sound realistic? in a perfect world would it work like this?
BTW..........last month (February) we had $0 electric bill
Do you need a generator that big. Mine is 8kw and it supplies 10 circuits. This gives me water pump, furnace, pellet stove, fridge, freezer, TV, microwave and some other lights and plugs. I put it in myself for 2500. I'm sure it wouldn't be more than 4000 installed. Would I like a whole house one sure but do I need it? Absolutely not. This one is totally automatic and goes on or off as needed. No human intervention required. Getting a large one is also going to run a lot more on fuel. JMHO
Ron
Ron
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That would work, but you will need to write down the wattage draw from all of your motorized appliances, including the starting wattage, which is substantially higher than the running wattage. Then estimate the total wattage draw from any other breakers you want to power. When using the gen, don't exceed the total.
The plug goes into a 220v socket placed on an outside wall and wired to the breaker box. If you have a transfer switch it connects to that. I would think the wires would connect directly to an interlock, but I haven't seen one in person.
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Probably use something like this to get a general idea what wattage is for each appliance. Probably not enough power to run the central air in the summer though. That is most likely the highest draw in the whole house..........Toasters are crazy high too. We have a gas heater which wouldn't take much to run, just power to ignite and run the blower. Not sure if Gas water heater high too or not.
Gas range, stove you can light with a match.............oven just needs a little power to ignite.
GenerLink - Connecting a portable generator made easy and safe. - Genersafe - Canada
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That's a good reference chart to go by.
Forget the A/C. With my 5500w gen on a transfer switch, I can run a gas water heater, furnace, refrigerator, freezer, 220v grinder pump and kitchen lights, and they can all be on at the same time, although that never happens. If I had to buy another portable unit now, I would get at least 7500w to be able to use the microwave. With an interlock, you can pick your circuits, as long as you're careful. Electric heating elements use the most wattage.
Forget the A/C. With my 5500w gen on a transfer switch, I can run a gas water heater, furnace, refrigerator, freezer, 220v grinder pump and kitchen lights, and they can all be on at the same time, although that never happens. If I had to buy another portable unit now, I would get at least 7500w to be able to use the microwave. With an interlock, you can pick your circuits, as long as you're careful. Electric heating elements use the most wattage.
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The interlock is just a metal plate that attaches to the surface of your electrical panel, next to the main breaker, so that you physically have to turn off the main before you can turn on the feed breaker from your generator. You then have to remove two breakers just below the main, and replace them with a 30, 40 or 50 amp, 240 v, double-pole breaker that you use to feed from your generator. A 240 v line runs from that feed breaker out to your generator plug box. The breakers you remove have to be relocated within your panel.
The interlock makes it impossible to have the main and feed breakers on at the same time. When you lose power, you have to shut off the main, slide the interlock plate up so it blocks the main, which then clears the feed breaker so you can turn the feed breaker on.
As mentioned, you then have to decide which individual breakers you will have on, and which ones you will turn off based on the wattage of each circuit, what you need to run, the capacity of your generator, and the size of your feed line and feed breaker. It's best done by an electrician.
This site will give you examples of various interlocks: https://www.natramelec.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI6JOXs6Ht2QIVVbbACh05mg27EAEYASAAEgKbFPD_BwE
Cal
The interlock makes it impossible to have the main and feed breakers on at the same time. When you lose power, you have to shut off the main, slide the interlock plate up so it blocks the main, which then clears the feed breaker so you can turn the feed breaker on.
As mentioned, you then have to decide which individual breakers you will have on, and which ones you will turn off based on the wattage of each circuit, what you need to run, the capacity of your generator, and the size of your feed line and feed breaker. It's best done by an electrician.
This site will give you examples of various interlocks: https://www.natramelec.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI6JOXs6Ht2QIVVbbACh05mg27EAEYASAAEgKbFPD_BwE
Cal
Attachments
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This is what the current electric panel looks like, looks like I might have issues with not having anymore space........at the top of the panel there are 2- 50 amp breakers which I believe are the main breakers.
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Also here are pictures of the 2 inverters for the solar panels which are along side the electric panel inside the garage.
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Also here are pictures of the 2 inverters for the solar panels which are along side the electric panel inside the garage.
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