Questions about wheel height with PowerFlow bagger

mysticfm · Oct 9, 2017

I am trying to prepare for my first use of my new X380 with PowerFlow bagger. But I've run into a couple of confusing things:

The dealer rep told me that the deck had been leveled at the dealership without the bagger installed, and that I should not re-level the deck with the bagger installed, but rather simply lower the right-hand pair of deck wheels one notch in order to support the deck. However, I am having two problems with this. (Pictures also included below.)

1) The difference in the wheel height adjustments from the left side of the mower to the right side seem wildly different. I'm not sure how much of a difference there is in the deck height with the blower on board, because I can't get underneath it to position the deck measuring tool. But I'm guessing there may be at least an inch or so of difference. However, as you can see in the picture, the right front wheel is already adjusted almost as high as it will go and is still nearly touching the ground, while the left front wheel is adjusted to approximately a middle position. Is it normal for the wheel height posts to be this different between the two sides?

2) Even if this is correct, I can't even get at the right rear wheel to move it down one more notch, because the J-pin is blocked by the blower assembly. Is it correct that I have to remove the blower in order to adjust the height of that wheel? That seems kind of painful, given that the point is to adjust that wheel so it will be at the proper height (nearly touching the ground, as I understand it) when the blower is installed. Do I have to remove the blower, take my guess at the right height, then reinstall the blower to check if I guessed right, and repeat if I didn't?

Assistance would be greatly appreciated. I am hoping to use this thing later on this afternoon, but right now I am concerned that I may have some setup to do on it yet, despite what the dealer rep said.

Left front wheel (notice wheel post height):

Right front wheel (notice wheel post height):

Right rear wheel (notice both wheel post height and J-pin blocked by blower):

mysticfm · Oct 9, 2017

Replying to myself with what I've learned from a call to the service department at my dealership, for the benefit of anyone else with similar questions:

1) Normally the wheel heights should be the same when the deck isn't laden with a PowerFlow blower, but when it is, that side of the deck can dip by an inch or more, so that explains why the post heights of the wheels are so different. All that matters (or so I was told) is that the deck is level when without the bagger, and with the bagger, the right deck wheels (especially the rear one) should be pretty much on the ground to help support the blower.

2) Yes, to pull the J-pin and adjust the height of the right rear deck wheel, you have to partially remove the blower. It's sufficient to just release the drive belt and swing the unit away from the deck.

BillBoost37 · Oct 9, 2017

I bought my powerflow after the fact and when installing it, read the directions/parts. First off, that back corner J pin is supposed to be removed and replaced with a straight through pin and ring to retain it.

Under Install Gauge Wheel Adjuster Pin they mention pulling off the old one and replacing.
OMGX25588

As for adjusting.. looks like I didn't follow the procedure. Here it is thought.
Adjust cutting height and level mower deck side-to-side and front-to-rear as described in tractor operator’s manual.

Lower mower deck to pre-set cutting height.

Adjust both right-hand mower deck wheels to one position lower than they were positioned when leveling mower deck.

Hope that helps

mysticfm · Oct 9, 2017

BillBoost37 said:
I bought my powerflow after the fact and when installing it, read the directions/parts. First off, that back corner J pin is supposed to be removed and replaced with a straight through pin and ring to retain it.

Under Install Gauge Wheel Adjuster Pin they mention pulling off the old one and replacing.
OMGX25588

Interesting, but I don't think that applies in my case, since I have a 48A (Accel) deck, and that seems to be targeted at their "C" decks.

BillBoost37 · Oct 14, 2017

You would be correct, I have an edge deck (x) and the kit also fits a C deck. Might be worthwhile switching over if you want to move it w/o partially pulling the power flow though.

For a while, I entertained switching to the pins like you have in order to make deck wheel moves even faster.

wwxx · Oct 14, 2017

Probably just a silly suggestion but make certain all your tires are at equal pressures, do this on a cold morning if possible, as tire pressure can change, always do this before adjusting any lawnmower deck.

There is more than one way to skin a cat, I don't have your instruction sheet, but, on a new unit it is acceptable to consider that blades and spindles as straight and undamaged. So therefore you might level your deck in such a way [primarily side to side] by aligning your blades 'cross wise, with the cutting tips as far left & far right as possible', there is where you would measure the blade tips for equality for both the L & R sides to match.

But you say you can't get in there to measure, I think you can.

Use homemade measuring blocks, one for the Left & one for the Rt sides. This could be something as simple as two short length blocks of 2X4 wood. Position both blocks so that the Left blade tip & RT blade tip will come to rest upon the blocks as you lower your deck down upon them. Make sure only the blade tips are 'just barely' resting on the blocks, not really supporting any weight, 'just touching' don't let the deck shell or other stuff get hung on the measuring blocks. Now at this point you know for sure your blade tips are the same height from the concrete floor [as if you were reaching under there with your other measuring device] Adjust your deck L & R if necessary, to conform to being level side to side.

Maybe that approach will make it easier for you to accomplish what you want.

wwxx

inspectorudy · Oct 14, 2017

I agree that you should replace the spring loaded "J" hook pin with a straight pin on that right rear wheel. As for the deck leveling and then lowering the right wheels one notch is absurd. Every PowerFlo unit I have had the unfortunate experience to own the two wheels had to be lowered all the way to the ground. Take any deck and level it, and then add forty pounds out beyond the outer edge of the right-hand edge and tell me that all you need to do is lower the wheel one notch! Do you suppose Jd ever played with a seesaw? The last X530 I had with the PF on it had the wheels all the way down to the ground on the PF side. That means no height adjustment on the fly. It is like a fixed height deck. I think you will need to play with it until it works for you. Just remember you will not have the flexibility you had with just the deck alone.

mysticfm · Oct 15, 2017

inspectorudy said:
As for the deck leveling and then lowering the right wheels one notch is absurd. Every PowerFlo unit I have had the unfortunate experience to own the two wheels had to be lowered all the way to the ground.

Do you mean lowered all the way to the ground when the deck is lowered to the cutting height? If so, then as I understand it, when the wheels on the left side are properly adjusted, they'll be riding about 3/8" above the ground, which is just a little more than one notch width. So if the right wheels are lowered one notch, doesn't that just about put them on the ground? (But maybe you mean something different.)

AOW162435 · Oct 15, 2017

How about adding weight, equivalent to the weight of the Powerflow head, on the left side of the deck? Just a thought...

Andreas

inspectorudy · Oct 15, 2017

I have only had three baggers so I am not an expert. The newest one was an X530 with a brand new PowerFlo on it. The only way it would not gouge the grass on the powerflo side was to put the two right side wheels on the ground with the deck set to the height that I wanted to mow. If I put the wheels to one notch above the ground then it would just sag down into the grass right away. JD is not known for it great cutting decks and I have actually followed some advice from others on this forum top lower the wheels down on all four corners to get a decent cut on my 345. If I have to do that with a non-powerflo deck then I know I would have to do it with a PF deck. I have a hilly yard so I might not be the best person to take advice from. On hillsides, the deck always wants to go lower on the downhill side. Throw a PF on it and really wants to go lower. These decks have a built in slop for going over big bumps so that the deck on either side can actually go up above the cutting height if necessary. I cannot see any way to keep the non PF side of the deck from staying in that slop area unless the wheels are on the ground. Think about it. You level the deck without the PF and then they tell you to add the PF and drop the wheels one notch. How is that going to compensate for the extra 40 pounds on the right side of the deck? The right side is going down to the height set and left side is going up into the slop area. The only way to even think about leveling the deck is to put the right wheels on the ground. Like I said being mechanical by training, I cannot see how the PF system is ever going to work consistently unless the wheels are on the ground. JD should have built the PF for a rear discharge deck and that would have ended this mess.

TJR345 · Oct 15, 2017

If you have your deck setup properly then one notch is all you need.Without the PF on if your cutting height is 3" for example the your gauge wheels should 1/8-1/4 off the ground.Adjusting one notch lower on the right when the PF is on should put the gauge wheel on the ground.

jd2854020 · Oct 15, 2017

AOW162435 said:
How about adding weight, equivalent to the weight of the Powerflow head, on the left side of the deck? Just a thought...
Andreas

Old post I remember someone adding weight on the left side. I wouldn't do this, what would happen if using deck without power flow is my thought? How about leveling deck with powerflow installed? I have done the wheel trick and re-leveled but I only use powerflow in the fall on leaves.

BillBoost37 · Oct 15, 2017

Directions read:
Add PF
Level deck to compensate for lead weight (aka PF)
Then bring deck on driveway to level you want to cut at and lower RH wheels (PF side) down one notch.

Makes me think they are ensuring that after you level the deck, it won't dip much based on the wheel position. I'm cutting fairly level ground and it's doing a nice job.

mysticfm · Oct 16, 2017

BillBoost37 said:
Directions read:
Add PF
Level deck to compensate for lead weight (aka PF)
Then bring deck on driveway to level you want to cut at and lower RH wheels (PF side) down one notch.

I haven't seen any other source say that your second step above ("Level deck to compensate") should be done. In fact my dealership told me that the deck should NEVER be re-leveled with the PowerFlow installed. I mean, it actually does make sense to me that one would need to do this in order to have the cut be even with the blower installed, but until this post I've only seen recommendations against doing so. Where did you find those directions?

inspectorudy · Oct 16, 2017

The X530 with PowerFlo I just sold had the PF manual with it and it said to level the deck WITHOUT the PF and then put the PF on and drop the wheel one notch. I just laughed when I read that. That PF head is a backbreaker and to place it beyond the outer edge of the deck is like adding a fat girl to your side of a seesaw! I got the deck leveled and then put the PF on it and the whole deck went down to the old wheel height immediately. One notch didn't do much to re-level the deck. I used it for leaves only so I didn't have any issues but to mow with it looked like a bad idea. This was on a 54-inch deck so that might make a difference.

quackaddict · Oct 16, 2017

inspectorudy said:
The X530 with PowerFlo I just sold had the PF manual with it and it said to level the deck WITHOUT the PF and then put the PF on and drop the wheel one notch. I just laughed when I read that. That PF head is a backbreaker and to place it beyond the outer edge of the deck is like adding a fat girl to your side of a seesaw! I got the deck leveled and then put the PF on it and the whole deck went down to the old wheel height immediately. One notch didn't do much to re-level the deck. I used it for leaves only so I didn't have any issues but to mow with it looked like a bad idea. This was on a 54-inch deck so that might make a difference.

I level my deck on a level surface with the threaded adjustment rods when I add and remove the powerflow. It takes about 2 minutes to do it. I just throw a level on the deck and adjust one side or the other until it is level.

I have no idea why you wouldn't adjust the level on the deck after adding a weight like the powerflow unit.

inspectorudy · Oct 16, 2017

I agree. I couldn't believe the manuals procedure either. Adding that much weight will certainly make that end of the deck go down.

BillBoost37 · Oct 17, 2017

mysticfm said:
I haven't seen any other source say that your second step above ("Level deck to compensate") should be done. In fact my dealership told me that the deck should NEVER be re-leveled with the PowerFlow installed. I mean, it actually does make sense to me that one would need to do this in order to have the cut be even with the blower installed, but until this post I've only seen recommendations against doing so. Where did you find those directions?

Take a look at the Deere manual for the X540 power flow with two bagger (this is for my machine) that I linked in my first post on the thread. Section 25 on the left side. First step is install power flow, very next step is level deck. Unless I'm reading wrong, but it's in that order and that's how I followed the paper directions that were included with my power flow. I had missed the part about dropping the right wheels and with the PF on the right side it did have a tendancy to dip on that side if I were trying a power slide with it. :tango_face_smile:. I've put the wheels down as it suggests and have a good cut. For what it's worth, I'm a 2010 X540 with 54" X aka Edge deck.

Hope that info helps

mysticfm · Oct 18, 2017

My update on the original problem:

Today I finally got up the courage to completely remove the Power Flow blower and then confirm the balance of the deck before setting the wheel heights. I had expected it would be in balance because they said they did it at the dealership before delivery ... but when I checked it, even without the weight of the Power Flow, the right side of the deck was around 1/2" lower than the left! Which I think may explain why I seemed to be getting a bit of a shorter cut and even a little scalping on that side (because the weight of the Power Flow would only have made this worse).

So today I balanced the deck without the Power Flow, then reset the deck to my cutting height and set the wheel heights to as close to 3/8" off the ground as I could get them, and sure enough the posts of the wheels ended up being much closer to the same length than they had been previously (as seen in the pictures at the start of this thread). Then I lowered each of the right wheels by a notch, as per the manual, and then put the Power Flow back on (almost starting to get the hang of that now, I think!), and the wheel heights seemed pretty good after, with the RH wheels just about touching the ground and the LH wheels at the normal height (about 3/8"). So the deck didn't seem to tilt all that much with the Power Flow installed ... just a little bit, less than 1/4". So I didn't feel the need to do a new balance with the Power Flow in place, because it hadn't changed all that much. I'm going to give it a try with simply the "one notch down" on the right side wheels to see how it goes.

Guess that teaches me that I shouldn't always rely on a dealership to have done things right. Either that, or else I didn't do something right today, but I think I did (checked the height at each of the raised weld points at the rear of the Accel deck's sides, along with at the bottom of the front bracket, with the deck height set to the marked height for balancing with the included tool). I also checked the pressure of the tires ... the rear ones are probably inflated a little more than what is recommended in the manual, but they seem to be equivalent from left to right, and I don't trust my current pressure gauge at these low pressure levels enough to start letting air out of the rear tires.

Even though I am not exactly famous for being mechanically inclined, I don't see where I could have made a mistake here that would have accounted for the difference I saw in the deck heights when I started.

mrmagloo · Oct 19, 2017

Unfortunately, your experience echo's many others with regards to the quality of the set up at some dealers. I think the fact is, the techs doing the set up probably tend to be the lowest level guys there, and depending on how busy they are, they might be inclined to rush things - and it seems deck leveling is a low priority.

If you get one of those cheapo blade height gauges, it's pretty easy to check the deck every once in a while. Not only side to side, but just importantly front to back to get a nice clean cut. And make sure your tire pressures remain to spec.

The only other thing I will mention, early on, I caught one of my lift arm lock nuts (M85516 - for a x540) were loosening up by itself. The only explanation I could come up with was every time the deck wheels hit unlevel ground, causing the deck to lift and remove tension on the lift arms, the nut would move a bit. I replaced both nuts and this never happened again. Not sure if they had a bad batch, but if you noticed the balance change, this might be the issue.

Glad you got it figured out.

Questions about wheel height with PowerFlow bagger

mysticfm

mysticfm

BillBoost37

mysticfm

BillBoost37

wwxx

inspectorudy

mysticfm

AOW162435

inspectorudy

TJR345

jd2854020

BillBoost37

mysticfm

inspectorudy

quackaddict

inspectorudy

BillBoost37

mysticfm

mrmagloo

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