Partial clog of fuel filter?

IF it's still under warranty have the dealer fix it.


My 2¢

 

I'm not staunchly defending the diagnosis, but here is some explanation to your question...

A charging circuit usually produces 14volts or so. That gives enough to charge a 12V battery and run the engine/accessories. While running on a healthy battery, you might measure 13.6 volts. If the battery is weak, the charging circuit will still charge the battery, but it will be pulled down from the 13.6 to something lower. That might only marginally run the engine/accessories (which actually like the higher, healthier voltage). So to answer your question, it will still recharge the battery from the starting crank.

So why does it die after 15 min and then run again after rest? I'm guessing that the battery gets worse as it heats up? Maybe the electric clutch pulls more amps as i heats up? Just throwing out guesses.

These aren't precise numbers or any sort of certified explanation - just tossing out a general theory. I'd say that the dealer could be wrong - but I won't be at all surprised to hear that a new battery fixes it - especially with electronics involved..

By the way, the old timers method of checking a charging circuit was to start the engine and then disconnect the battery to see if it stays running. When you do that, the charging circuit loses regulation and puts out some much higher voltages. Old (1960's) cars and machines could handle that voltage - the computers and electronics on modern machines tend to get fried.

 

Once running, these tractor engines, at least the small ones we
are discussing, don't need the battery to run. Battery is only for starting
and running lights, mower clutch, etc..


My 2¢

 

Yeah it is at the dealer. They are adomant it is the battery. Makes absolutely no sense......

My dad tried choking it when it sputters and it shuts off like it should. Put a brand new fuel filter on it and made no difference. I feel pretty confident it is not fuel related based on what he is telling me.

Wish I had it, here with me but has all the symptoms of ignition. Just not sure if there is anything different about the new Kawasaki's that really rely on the battery to be able to fire.

 

The Kawasaki FS600V has a magneto-based ignition with a simple kill wire to stop the engine per the Kawasaki manual which can be found here http://www.kawasakienginesusa.com/s...susa.com/sites/default/files/manuals/99920-2256-04_FS481V-541V-600V_English.pdf.

It does seem odd that the battery would be the issue given that you haven't had to charge it. It would also be odd for both magnetos to die at the exact same time so I doubt you have a coil problem. Also, doesn't seem right for a factory battery to not last more than three years unless you are in a particularly harsh climate.

Without more diagnostic information, we can just guess what the problem might be.

If it were me, I would ask them to explain the theory of operation where the battery comes into play. Do they guarantee that the battery will resolve the issue?

 

Yeah I was thinking it was magnetos so not sure how much the battery has to do with it....

The mower is 350 miles north of me in. In Central Ohio as it is my Dad's.

Also, the mower just will not shut off. After 15 minutes it will start running rough and he explains it as it is missing. It will stay running so both magnetos/coils are not out. First thing my dad said is he thought it was running on both cylinders.

He will then shut the mower off, go do other things for 30 minutes to a couple hour, come back and the mower will start and ran absolutely fine for another 15 minutes, this cycle repeats.....

 

If it were me, I would call the dealer and ask the tech to explain how a failing battery could cause the issue on a mower with magnetos. There might be a valid reason and if not hopefully you can convince the tech to look further.

 

IF the battery is strong enough to start the engine, it's NOT the battery.
When running, the alternator is putting out a higher voltage than the battery. This is assuming you aren't jumping it to start.

Pick up 1 or 2 of those inexpensive, inline spark testers and install.
Observe the quality of spark when first started and when the problem occurs.

https://www.harborfreight.com/90-in...pla-293946777986|&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIla714Off4AIVER6tBh2YFAi4EAQYASABEgJGJvD_BwE

 

IF the battery is strong enough to start the engine, it's NOT the battery.

Pick up 1 or 2 of those inexpensive, inline spark testers and install.
Observe the quality of spark when first started and when the problem occurs.

https://www.harborfreight.com/90-in...pla-293946777986|&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIla714Off4AIVER6tBh2YFAi4EAQYASABEgJGJvD_BwE

It's under warranty and at the dealer.

 

I would check plugs for a heat problem, then coils and spark plug leads (which are most likely all one unit , a coil and a plug lead). Bill Kapaun has a very excellent suggestion, so I would pass that on to your father. If that all checks out, then I would check the valves for issues (carbon buildup, out of spec valve adjustment).

 

Well just an update to this thread. The tractor is still at the dealer and my father is really getting the run around. He went back over about 2 weeks ago. Talked to a different guy and he agreed it was not the battery. They went outside and the tractor started right up. My Dad took the tractor out and they let him cut some grass. After about 30 minutes the mower started spitting and sputtering and died on him. A mechanic looked at it and they say they are puzzled and can not find out what is wrong with it.

Fast forward to yesterday. My Dad just showed up and one of the mechanics said they thought they fixed it. However, they did not tell my Dad what it as or what they fixed. He took the mower out and they let him run it again yesterday. Exact same thing happened after exactly 30 minutes. Started spitting and sputtering and running rough and it smells like fuel. However, they say the coils are good..... Not sure how or when they test it. I do not see how it is not ignition related.

Do these particular engines have an igniter?

Dealer has had it for 7 weeks and no end is in sight?

My Dad is really bummed out and starting to get frustrated. I understand how this goes and many tractors are coming through the doors this time of year but there is no help from them......

 

I vaguely recall reading that some Kawasaki engines had problems
with fuel pumps crapping out.
Does it run different when the gas tank is full or nearly empty?


My 2¢

 

Did they test that the battery is getting charged? Or does it start up again fine once the engine is cold/sitting for awhile?

 

Just FYI, according to Dad they did rule out the battery and it all tests good.

 

All right an update from today....

He went back over there and cut their lawn for free for 30 minutes, haha and it started doing it. Spitting and sputtering and running rough. Mower eventually cut off and smelled like fuel as mentioned earlier. Service manager was with my dad when it started doing it and the tractor shut off. Funny thing is my dad said they started it up and it ran fine, but the blades were off. Once they flipped the blades on it would start spitting and sputtering. This time once it started spitting and sputtering they would turn the blades off and the mower would pick up and run like new.

With all that being said, they came to the conclusion that it is the PTO electrical and it is making a large draw once it gets heated up and drawing more amps which is taking power away from firing the coils? Looking like the PTO is the problem according to them. They want to make sure the PTO is under warranty and replace the PTO which it should be.

Sound plausible that PTO could prevent coils from firing properly?

 

Isn't this engine double magneto based (one for each cylinder)? A Kawasaki FS600V-BS21R as listed by the John Deere parts site.

 

To the best of knowledge yes. I didn't want to say anything on here without hearing responses but the PTO makes no sense nor does it have anything that to do with the coils? Once that engine is started, it is solely relying on the "magnet" on the flywheel to fire.

Am I off track?

 

That is correct, so if this thing dies 20 to 30 min depending on mowing, then cools off and runs again, It has to be heat related breakdown.

 

That is what I keep telling my Dad it is the ignition coils. I would think once it starts sputtering they need to immediately test the ohms on the coil. Or do it the old fashioned way and pull the plug wire and if it dies it is the good cylinder. If it stays running that is the bad coil.

 

Kawasaki FS600V Manuals:

The owners Manual is 44 pages long.
The engine service manual is 167 pages

 

FWIW My 2010 X304 did exactly the same thing about 2015 and after a new fuel filter , new plugs , fresh gas etc to no avail I pulled the carb and the float bowl has a glob of a clear gelatin like material that was interfering with how the carb functioned . This was at 300 hours and scrupulous use of mainly non ethanol fuel and the mower being totally babied since new If you have spark don't rule out the carb After a very easy carb clean I ran her two more seasons with not one more problem . I hope you figure it out

 

Yes I did tell my Dad it could be fuel related. I told him when it starts doing it to take the gas cap off to rule out vapor lock. Made no difference so not vapor locking. Could be fuel related but would probably rear it's ugly head earlier if it was but could be. Does it at about 30 minutes every time. I have never not seen it be a coil when it does this. I have replaced probably 10 coils and it fixed it every time.


Anyway, he did hear from the dealer today so they are putting on a new PTO tomorrow and that will fix it according to them. I told him do not take that thing home without running it first. I will bet anyone a dinner at Ruth's Chris it will do it again tomorrow......

 

I would make sure they do not toss the old PTO or any other parts, just in case it fails again, why pay for new parts that do not fix the problem. (Can you say rip off)

 

Dad went to the dealer today. Said he wanted to test it out before taking it home after the PTO replacement. Exact same thing. Started running rough about 30 minutes into it. PTO has nothing to do with the coils on a Kawasaki.

Dealer says they are absolutely stumped now. Yet they have not cleaned the carb, set valves, cleaned tank, etc....

I guess everyone on MTF knows more than the dealers. You would think they would go through checks and try harder to diagnose. It is coming up on 2 months this Monday and my Dad is starting to get really ******. I sort of don't blame him.

I am about too just buy a coil or two and go up to Ohio and change out and find the bad one It has to be a coil!!!!

 

Hey before you do that go and get a set of new spark plugs.
My X530 with the Kawasaki 24hp did almost the same thing.
It would miss out after it got hot.
First thing I did was change the plugs and that was it.
I didn't read that you had tried that.
My bad if you did.

 

You can have plugs bad right out of the box too. Usually caused by a problem in manufacture or slipping through QC or damaged in handling and shipping. Plugs are cheap so have spares.

 

Dad said he replaced the plugs about 40 hrs. Ago and all is well. He made a mention that the dealer checked them but not 100% sure. I still am leaning toward a coil on one side. I have replaced many coils and this is in line with exactly the way any coil I have ever had start to go out.

 

I just fixed this 'exact' problem on my brother-in-law's John Deere X350. Yes, I know-old thread-but it's the first to show up when I looked for the same problem, which means it is still relevant to other webizens.

One might think there is a 'heat' problem when a motor stalls after a certain period of time—during which they assume is the motor is getting hotter to some breakdown temperature. BUT—in this case, it is FUEL STARVATION.

THERE WERE TWO SMALL LEAVES IN THE GAS TANK!

There its no strainer in the tank on these and many newer tractors, the end of the fuel pick-up tubing is just cut at an angle at the bottom. As the fuel is pulled up, the leaves effectively got held onto the strainer by suction, and blocked enough fuel that the flow was insufficient for high-speed/load conditions. NOTE: THIS ENGINE WILL RUN OFF THE VAPORS COING THROUGH THE VENT LINE AT IDLE, WITH THE LINE TO CARBURETOR FROM FUEL PUMP REMOVED!

(This is how I bleed all the air out of the line and filter. Try it!)

Remove the mower height knob, pedals, bolts on the seat deck, unclip the safety switch under seat, and push it though the holes and carefully remove as you lift and remove the seat deck.

Pull vent line off (has no clamp).

CAREFULLY pry up three of the four clamps around the fuel sender/pickup cap and then the third can be maneuvered off as you lift the sender/pickup assembly off. Looking in, you may actually see the debris causing the clog AS IT RUNS below, as I immediately did, shown in my photo. (You can leave the non-reusable clamp attached and just move the assembly out of the way to remove the tank. It will all right up, with a little angling/force to get past one obstruction. *IF it's 'heavy' with fuel-siphon some off first! Or all of it, as you prefer.)

Pour fuel out through this opening into a large bucket etc., and visually check that the debris in out. Then, strain and reuse that fuel. Reassemble in reverse, and REMEMBER to re-prime the fuel filter (see hint above), and you're good to go.

ALWAYS OBSERVE PROPER FUEL FILLING HYGIENE!!!!

My Dad has an x350 and it is going on 3 years old and warranty will be expiring this April. He has been having a problem with it starting to sputter and miss at exactly about 15 minutes after he has been running it. He will shut it down, come back in an hour or two and it will start no problem and run fine for another 15 minutes. I told him when it does it to loosen the gas cap and see if that fixes it. He tried that and to no avail so I do not believe it is fuel related.

So, I was thinking it was the ignition coils. With that being said, he called the dealer and then dropped it off to them last week. They told him it would be 6 weeks.....

He got a call this morning saying they looked at it and it was ready to pick up. They said it was the battery and needs a new battery. To me, this makes no sense at all. Once the tractor is running are the ignition coils ran off the battery? Thought they were triggered by the magnet on the flywheels still? This is the Kawasaki 18.5 engine on the x350.

What is everyone's opinion? I am not buying the battery. If it is the battery then how does the battery magically charge itself to start the tractor with no problem after it has been shut off?

 

Did JD ever find out the issue your dad had? I have a 2020 X350 and the exact same issue is occurring. I cleaned carb, check battery voltage, checked voltage regulator, checked coil resistance all checked out good. But I changed the coils out with two new thinking that had to be the problem but it wasn't. Check for vapor lock. Loosened cap no change, and checked fuel vent and it breaths. I am at a loss with the last resort being CMU.