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While 446's and 990's are very fine units , I have a 990 series machine. They are not even close to what a 2305 SCUT is capable of, however the 2305 is a 4wd 7xx diesel Deere on steroids and there is certianly nothing wrong with that lineage. I would guestimate that a 2305 will be around in 20 or 30+ years easily.
 
Discussion starter · #23 ·
While 446's and 990's are very fine units , I have a 990 series machine. They are not even close to what a 2305 SCUT is capable of, however the 2305 is a 4wd 7xx diesel Deere on steroids and there is certianly nothing wrong with that lineage. I would guestimate that a 2305 will be around in 20 or 30+ years easily.

well you can't really compare the performance of a 2wd tractor to a 4wd tractor now can you.

A 990 came with 15 inch wheels, cat 0 3point, not a sleeve hitch. That was also in the 70's. Thats pretty darn close to a bottom line scut to me. But thats my ever so humble opinion.

And the 990 being an mtd was a lower end machine compared to the case 444 of the same vintage. Now my former case 444 had 16 inch wheels, full hydraulics, like all cases, and was built like a tank. Also pretty darn close to a lower end scut to me.

Now having owned the case 444 for 10 years and the 990 now, I prefer the 990. It just plain outperforms my old 444. Goes places the 444 would just get stuck. The hydraulic drive was so abrupt that the wheels spun easily. Also that freewheeling downhill was downright scary.
 
I bed to differ. A new Ingersoll is just as tough, if not tougher than your 990.:hide: They are not scut's, they are GT's. They are proven and still being built basically the same way today. I'd say my new 4023 could handle the job, and last for years to come. Yes, I did pay for mine. I feel I got what I paid for also. It should last my lifetime and onto my son if he wants it at that point.
I do know what your getting at however. Ingersoll is the one and only true tough GT left being made IMO. Sorry if I sound bias.

MU
 
Discussion starter · #25 ·
I bed to differ. A new Ingersoll is just as tough, if not tougher than your 990.:hide: They are not scut's, they are GT's. They are proven and still being built basically the same way today. I'd say my new 4023 could handle the job, and last for years to come. Yes, I did pay for mine. I feel I got what I paid for also. It should last my lifetime and onto my son if he wants it at that point.
I do know what your getting at however. Ingersoll is the one and only true tough GT left being made IMO. Sorry if I sound bias.

MU
well a new ingersol I can't say as I don't own a new one. However I did own a case 444 for a long time, and my 990 just plain goes places the case just got stuck. Both were wearing turfs and chains.

Yes the ingersol is the only tough gt still made, as it is basically unchanged.
 
This started to be about GT of old vs GT of today. How they are built and how long they will last.

If you never owned an SCUT then you will never really know what they can do. In no way is it a large GT with 4 wheel drive. It's a real CUT tractor with small wheels and tires. It is only limited by it's height not it's power. Even if some GT's have FEL's and limited cat 3 the numbers will never be close.
 
Discussion starter · #27 ·
This started to be about GT of old vs GT of today. How they are built and how long they will last.

If you never owned an SCUT then you will never really know what they can do. In no way is it a large GT with 4 wheel drive. It's a real CUT tractor with small wheels and tires. It is only limited by it's height not it's power. Even if some GT's have FEL's and limited cat 3 the numbers will never be close.
I've never owned a Mercedes either, but I have driven several. Same with a scut. They are impressive. I didn't originally bring up the scut thing either, just commented on it.

Actually this started out as a challenge. Try this with your new GT.... then count the broken parts. And see if it will last 36 years and counting on the original engine and hydro.

So lets see some pics of brand spankin new gt's working hard, hard like you stole it and don't care if it breaks.

I've seen the posted pics of little trailers with 8 pieces of wood being hauled and calling that working it.

I started this to raise hairs and get a debate going..........
 
Stony,

Can I post pictures of my 1962 Cub Cadet Original at work and working hard?

V/r!

Froghunter
 
Discussion starter · #31 ·
Stonykill:
What? Not being fair? Quality is quality. The old machines were built to last. New ones are built to be replaced.
Youre absolutely right on that one.

Today basically everything made is a throwaway item- built cheep- designed to last a certain amount of time and thrown out- why? So they can sell y NEXT years bigger and better models at higher prices!

If things built today lasted near as long as they did back then, we'd have ALOT more older things still around.

Things today are already built as an obselete product unfortunely.
 
All I can say is 95% of the time that way of thinking is right on. It's sad to say with not only tractors but with most items we use today. The other 5% is the exception to the rule and still has build quality that will last. The other side of that is cost.

I always tell people to look at old iron first before spending $1500 on something that has a short lifespan. If they have the cash to buy a highend GT (munderhill's GT) I would tell them to go with that over the old iron. You guy's have a different view on that and that's great. Keep the old iron running!
 
now thats closer to what I'm talking about. Thats a pretty good load of wood.Not bad, Lets see pics of harder work
It's not a garden tractor so that's about as hard as I'll work it.

When I first got the tractor, I tried pulling down a big poplar with it. I had dug around the 16" stump and chopped all the roots I could see. I delimbed one side to make it lopsided and tied a rope up high. Now I didn't expect to actually pull the tree down with the tractor but thought I could put a little lean on it and finish it off with a push pole and fulcrum. When the tractor got to the end of the rope, it just sat there. The wheels didn't even spin and the engine didn't load. That was when I realized the severe limitations of the 0510 hydro. After all, it isn't a GT and not meant for hard pulling.
 
... That was when I realized the severe limitations of the 0510 hydro. After all, it isn't a GT and not meant for hard pulling.
Right on, but your machine was probably about 20% of the cost new compared to a GT from ~25yrs ago. You'd never expect it to pull down trees. Obviously you get what you pay for. A plane old GT ~25yrs ago would cost comparatively about $10K. Who is going to pay $10K for a GT (including just a cutting deck and maybe a snowblower)?? Nobody. That's why they are basically non-existent today. The 'cheap' $800-2000 lawn tractors from ~25yrs ago were FAR worse junk than is sold today (Craftsman II's, Murray's, etc..).

Joel
 
I have been useing my 1978 GT (1855MF) this past week to clean up after IKE. It's got a Johnson Workhorse F.E.L. and box blade on it for that, but I do have a back-hoe for it too. Most of the machines labeled GT now are built as a lawn mower with some attachments as an after thought. They're really lawn tractors with the GT label. The old iron was built as a small tractor with a w-i-d-e variety of attachments which included a belly mower. I prefer the older tractors but a lot of people just need a rideing mower with the ablity to pull a cart or areator,etc and may not be mechanically inclined so I guess the newer throw away stuff fills a need. I am glad I had my old GT's for this storm clean up, I moved trees that I probably should have used a bigger tractor, but they did the job without complaint. The paint is wore out on my ole 1855MF but it'll still do the job. I'd like to have a 2300gcMF one of these days and my BIL sure wants the ole Massey, just don't know if I can part with her.
 
Read this thread and want to add my .02 .

There are differences between today and 30-40 years ago as far as tractors and consumer needs . Old iron engines were built with "years of usage " ratings . Todays are built with "hours of usage" ratings . There is a reason I see engines 10 years old or less being replaced/rebuilt , while seeing engines like in my 3210 untouched and still running strong .

Now , as far as consumers . Todays consumer is more apt to just want something that will mow and do minimal hauling etc . There are much fewer people with the "need" for the toughness of old iron . Why would they pay $9-10,000 for a tractor today to just maintain their lawn and haul around their flowers .

Lol , what I haul with my little 3210 , with the original 10hp engine , I would never imagine hauling with my dads "new" tractor for fear of breaking it . I pull around a cart rated at 1000#s , but loaded till the rims are practically touching the ground . And my little tractor never complains . I've pulled my full size 96 F150 around the yard without so much as a squeak from my tractor .

Old iron was made during a time when people used and "needed" quality . Today , people spend the money elsewhere , like SUVs and paying others to do the work rather than doing it themselves (think lawn care companies, tree services, etc) . Companies follow suit and build lower quality machines a) knowing they won't get as much usage (or as hard) , b) they know a big part of profit is parts and service .
 
I think if there was a sustainable, independent "Tractor Pull" rating, (i.e. able to pull a certain sled for 8 hours a day for 30 straight days) then the "average Joe's" at the box stores would be falling over each other to get the tractor with the biggest/highest tractor pull rating.
Much like the crazy current increases in pickup truck towing capacity in the last 20 years. (Most 1/2 ton trucks now have a higher tow rating (10,000lbs) than many 1 tons did years ago. Average consumers will buy more than they need because of those ratings.
 
oops.

...14hp Kohler single cylinder in a 2414.

I thought surely that wouldn't pull anything or even run the deck. I was wrong!

It will also mow about twice as much per gallon as my 18hp briggs twin it seems anyway.

Be interesting to try and figure out the various mowers MPG but that's a different topic.
 
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