Cub Cadet rider clogging

mitchman2010 · Aug 22, 2010

I picked up a Cub Cadet Z-Force S a few weeks ago.

Maybe there's someone with a similar problem and a cure..... I’m hoping someone can recommend a different blade that moves the cuttings out rather than up into the bottom of the deck where they stick like glue. Anyone use mulching blades in a similar deck?

There is nothing normal about stopping numerous times to clean out the deck like I show in the video I posted on Youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRA0XucqBuw

It hadn’t rained for 3 days prior to this 10 minute cut and as you can see, the mound removed isn’t a wet soupy mess. I’ve got about 2 acres to mow and my 20 year old Craftsman rider didn’t ever clog like this. When it clogs tight the blades are close to stalling and this junk falls out in clumps if it breaks loose at all. I’ve even cleaned it spotless and sprayed it with silicone spray – still clogged up. I like this machine… lots of power, easy to use and I’d like to avoid taking it back for a refund.

Thanks in advance.

Mitch

slkpk · Aug 22, 2010

Are the blades on right? Any belt slippage? No way should you have that much gunk under the deck in dry grass. Good luck with it. slkpk

TimT · Aug 22, 2010

Agreed that "it's not working right", but I don't know that I'd make the determination that it's a design issue. Blade speed or direction are the 2 things that come to mind. Either they're not turning fast enough or they're turning the wrong direction (upside down).

mitchman2010 · Aug 22, 2010

slkpk said:
Are the blades on right? Any belt slippage? No way should you have that much gunk under the deck in dry grass. Good luck with it. slkpk

Factory new, belt is tight as a drum and the blades are moving pretty darned fast. Sounds like a 747.

Anyone know of a product that sprays on to keep the grass from sticking?

Perhaps I could try mulching blades?
.

mitchman2010 · Aug 22, 2010

TimT said:
Agreed that "it's not working right", but I don't know that I'd make the determination that it's a design issue. Blade speed or direction are the 2 things that come to mind. Either they're not turning fast enough or they're turning the wrong direction (upside down).

The issue is that the upturn on the blades is throwing the grass with such force that it's sticking to the underside of the deck - like throwing spaghetti on a wall.

Or - the airflow is such that the debris is swirling around and around, not finding an exit. The left blade area clogs first - makes sense.

This is a newly designed ZTR released this year, I don't know about the design of the deck, but it's not stamped, it's 'fabricated' from plate steel so the interior corners are 90 degrees... no smooth surfaces at the corners.
.

savageactor7 · Aug 22, 2010

It was painful to watch that video...I hope you can get the advice here to fix it...

...I'm in agreement on the poorly designed decks. Maybe the parasite lawyers have the manufacturers afraid to make decks throw the grass the way we grew up with...I dunno.

jim982 · Aug 22, 2010

i have a problem with grass clogging on my 982 with the 50c deck i got this stuff called mow deck at tractor supply they claim the more you use it the better it works i applied once a month and a half ago and need to do it again seems to help a little so maybe try that.

MTD snow plow · Aug 22, 2010

Re: Riding mower deck clogging

Are you mowing with the chute facing the un cut grass then it should not clog. Are the Blades sharp? Are they on correctly?

LLigetfa · Aug 22, 2010

Re: Riding mower deck clogging

mitchman2010 said:
It hadn’t rained for 3 days prior to this 10 minute cut and as you can see, the mound removed isn’t a wet soupy mess...

No, but it does look damp as in perhaps after a morning dew. Cut height may have something to do with how much air can get in under the lip of the deck. You may need to use a different style of blade if you intend to keep that mower.

JMoe · Aug 22, 2010

Mitch, I didn't catch what size deck this is. I see it's the sloped-nose fabricated steel deck, which are new like my Z-Force's 44" fab, but my 44 doesn't have the sloped nose. Generally, clogging/clumping/stalling is the result of; 'too much, too wet, too fast', but I assume it's the same mowing conditions your Craftsman endured. Every deck/machine will have it's own threshold. I've mowed under pretty much every condition with my new Z-Force 44 and have never clogged it. In fact, my deck just about blasts itself clean on the underside. However, my 1.5acres is a far cry from a lush green carpet. It's mostly weeds with some grass mixed in! Like yours, my 44" sounds like a 747 and has some SERIOUS discharge velocity. If I get anywhere close to dirt, it makes a cloud like you wouldn't believe. Have you tried setting the deck a bit higher? Does the problem still happen? Have you had the deck off to inspect the underside?

Joel

WNYTractorTinkerer · Aug 22, 2010

Re: Riding mower deck clogging

LLigetfa said:
No, but it does look damp as in perhaps after a morning dew. Cut height may have something to do with how much air can get in under the lip of the deck. You may need to use a different style of blade if you intend to keep that mower.

I agree with the above.. Your grass you pull out does look quite wet.. Is it early on the morning and the dew is still on it? A set of high lift blades could help.. Also check the deck belt/drive for signs of slipping.. Perhaps the thing is routed wrong and will slip easy.. Just a couple thoughts.. :goodl:

mitchman2010 · Aug 22, 2010

Re: Riding mower deck clogging

WNYTractorTinkerer said:
I agree with the above.. Your grass you pull out does look quite wet.. Is it early on the morning and the dew is still on it? A set of high lift blades could help.. Also check the deck belt/drive for signs of slipping.. Perhaps the thing is routed wrong and will slip easy.. Just a couple thoughts.. :goodl:

Factory settings, blades. Brand new 15 hours old. The blade slips when the blades get clogged otherwise it sounds like a 747.

At was 6:30 at night, 5 days after the previous cut. No rain the previous 3 days. I shot this video specifically to show that even in optimal conditions, it clogs. Waiting for drought might help but isn't realistic. Healthy grass has moisture in it right? I'm sure they tried to take that into consideration when they designed this deck.

Depth of cut..... I raised the deck so I was getting just the top 1.5" (5 days' growth).

Speed has almost no effect. Ejecting out the right side can't take place because the left side blade's cuttings never get that far. They get slung to the underside of the deck no matter how fast or deep you cut. Moving slower than walking pace... still clogs, it just takes longer. This is sold as a fast machine, 7MPH. Commercial units with formed decks don't have this problem and they run at 5 to 10 MPH in the rain.

Again.... my Craftsman never clogs - even after a two week vacation.

IMHO, the fabricated deck leaves too much space and too many nooks for the debris to collect and accumulate, grass sticks to grass and it never moves towards the middle and then to the right blade.

I would almost prefer that the grass fell out in clumps. Instead, I have to stop - often - and clean it out by hand. The grass just gets so packed in that vibration and pumping the deck's lift mechanism doesn't dislodge it.

Stamped decks can be formed to the shape of a cyclone and an upside down bowl. Fabricated decks look like round cardboard boxes - straight sides - too many hiding places for accumulation and tall straight walls to stick to.
.

JMoe · Aug 22, 2010

Re: Riding mower deck clogging

mitchman2010 said:
...Commercial units with formed decks don't have this problem and they run at 5 to 10 MPH in the rain.

IMHO, the fabricated deck leaves too much space and too many nooks for the debris to collect and accumulate, grass sticks to grass and it never moves towards the middle and then to the right blade.

Stamped decks can be formed to the shape of a cyclone. Fabricated decks look like round cardboard boxes... too many hiding places for accumulation.

Mitch, I'd be aggravated as well, but you're throwing out lots of generalizations here. The only formed/stamped commercial deck I've seen is the John Deere 7-Iron. It's a real thick gauge that JD happens to stamp. Awesome deck. That said, pretty much ALL other commercial machines have fabricated "round cardboard box" decks for obvious reasons (strength, reliability, etc) Stamped steel decks are rounded primarily to give them structural strength. Again, I feel for you, but this is the first issue we've seen with this particular machine. LOTS of other fab'd deck Z-Force owners. No complaints such as this.

Joel

mitchman2010 · Aug 22, 2010

JMoe said:
Mitch, I didn't catch what size deck this is. I see it's the sloped-nose fabricated steel deck, which are new like my Z-Force's 44" fab, but my 44 doesn't have the sloped nose. Generally, clogging/clumping/stalling is the result of; 'too much, too wet, too fast', but I assume it's the same mowing conditions your Craftsman endured. Every deck/machine will have it's own threshold. I've mowed under pretty much every condition with my new Z-Force 44 and have never clogged it. In fact, my deck just about blasts itself clean on the underside. However, my 1.5acres is a far cry from a lush green carpet. It's mostly weeds with some grass mixed in! Like yours, my 44" sounds like a 747 and has some SERIOUS discharge velocity. If I get anywhere close to dirt, it makes a cloud like you wouldn't believe. Have you tried setting the deck a bit higher? Does the problem still happen? Have you had the deck off to inspect the underside?

Joel

48". Too much, fast, wet.... maybe, but it clogs at walking speed and you can see in the video it's not a solid mass oosing moisture. This is sold as a fast mower. I don't need to get it's top 7MPH but even at slow ground speed it accumulates because the sides of the deck are not sloped, it's very deep and there is no venturi effect as with stamped decks.

If I cut 20 feet of lawn and get only half out of the chute because they get spun up onto the underside and don't move, it's a design problem.

I've used the Craftsman in the rain and haven't cleaned it in years. It clumped when I did that, but it didn't accumulate in the deck and stall the blades.

JMoe · Aug 22, 2010

Mitch, did you talk to your dealer about this? Give them all your data and go from there. Maybe you can get into something else. Like I say, more stuff lands on TOP of my fab'd 44" than collects underneath. As a side note on the S-series (and I'm not trying to add more fuel to the fire), the other thing that pushed me away from them is the fact they use the lighter-duty Hydrogear EZT series hydrostats as opposed to the 'higher end' ZT-2800's used on most others. This makes no sense given the frame is heavier and they throw a Kawasaki engine on it! I would seriously see if they can swap you out to a regular Z-Force 48". Here's the 'flat front' deck on my 2010 Z-Force 44:

Joel

Mower_Man42 · Aug 22, 2010

This is one of those new Cub Cadets zero turns with a steering wheel? At the deck opening what with the bar across the bottom of the opening I seen that on the stamped steel deck, on their tractor and RZT50. I see you run without a chute deflector, I bet with it installed you couldn't make a 100 foot pass without it stalling or smoking the belt.

Now that stone guard or what ever they call it, is that bolted in place or spot welded in. I bet that`s your problem right there grass start hitting that and it like a train wreck under your deck with all that grass trying to get out. First one car hit that bar then another, then it`s big pile up, see what I`m saying. Is that deck going to bend without that bar if you remove it you`ll void your warranty it? Cub Cadet would drop you like hot rock.

Doesn't Cub test there product before they release them? If that can`t be removed then your stuck with that mower, I don`t even think a vacuum system would help that deck with that bar across it. I`d return it, because that what you got to look forward too. IMHO

Rog02 · Aug 22, 2010

What are your throttle settings during operations? Read the manual, it clearly states to put the throttle in the fast position and leave it there. Running the motor any slower prevents the blades from turning fast enough to develop the proper air flow and force to clear the deck. If the noise is too great you should be wearing hearing protection anyway. If the neighbors complain the hearing protection will keep that to a dull roar.:lalala:

I talked with the mechanic at my Cub dealership a couple of weeks ago about the potential problems with my new Cub ZTT i1050. He stated the leading cause of warranty failures he sees are due to operators failing to let the engine develop full RPM. It is hard on the hydro-stats and clutches, prevents the mower from discharging properly and allows the engine to overheat from lack of sufficient cooling air.

Shove the throttle lever to the firewall and forget it. If you continue to have problems you might want to check the governor speed of the motor. Mine was set at 3200 RPM from the factory and bringing it up to the 3600 RPM specified in the manual greatly improved the quality of cut. It appears that the speeds are set under "no load" conditions by the engine manufacturers and need to be reset when installed due to the drag of the hydro cooling fans and other drive components.

Your mileage may vary, but this has been my experience.

mitchman2010 · Aug 22, 2010

JMoe said:
Mitch, did you talk to your dealer about this? Give them all your data and go from there. Maybe you can get into something else. Like I say, more stuff lands on TOP of my fab'd 44" than collects underneath. As a side note on the S-series (and I'm not trying to add more fuel to the fire), the other thing that pushed me away from them is the fact they use the lighter-duty Hydrogear EZT series hydrostats as opposed to the 'higher end' ZT-2800's used on most others. This makes no sense given the frame is heavier and they throw a Kawasaki engine on it! I would seriously see if they can swap you out to a regular Z-Force 48". Here's the 'flat front' deck on my 2010 Z-Force 44:

Joel

Joel, thanks for the photo. I see we have very different decks.

I went out and did some fiddling around. I cleaned the begeebers out of the underside and mowed. I cut about 400' and took a look. EVERY single obstacle under the deck had a pile of grass growing on it - including the re-enforcing plate. (I see yours is mounted outside)

Do you discharge to the left?

I cleaned it again and removed the 4 bolts holding the belt guards on because they stick down almost 3/4 inch into the path of the cuttings as they swirl their way towards the exit.

Y'know,I looked at the underside of my Craftsman... not only is there zero grass under there, there are no protrusions to collect grass. Also, the left side is about 2" high and it rises in height to about 3.5" at the discharge side. Effectively, a reversed funnel.

I'm going to replace the factory bolts with carriage bolts (mounted with the smooth dome head from the underside) and remove those stupid Smart Wash plugs, also collecting a mit-ful of trash. (after speaking with the dealer, of course)

I'm thinking of grinding the leading edge of the re-enforcing plate smooth so it doesn't collect trash too.

Poor design. Prolly 13 or 15 obstacles to a smooth exit under this deck. I may not solve all of the problems, but at least these won't cause the start of an accumulation anymore.

Jeez I'm ******.

I'm telling ya. Poor design, lack of testing. Do they really need me to tell them to turn the bolts around?
.

mitchman2010 · Aug 22, 2010

Rog02 said:
What are your throttle settings during operations? Read the manual, it clearly states to put the throttle in the fast position and leave it there. Running the motor any slower prevents the blades from turning fast enough to develop the proper air flow and force to clear the deck. If the noise is too great you should be wearing hearing protection anyway. If the neighbors complain the hearing protection will keep that to a dull roar.:lalala:

I talked with the mechanic at my Cub dealership a couple of weeks ago about the potential problems with my new Cub ZTT i1050. He stated the leading cause of warranty failures he sees are due to operators failing to let the engine develop full RPM. It is hard on the hydro-stats and clutches, prevents the mower from discharging properly and allows the engine to overheat from lack of sufficient cooling air.

Shove the throttle lever to the firewall and forget it. If you continue to have problems you might want to check the governor speed of the motor. Mine was set at 3200 RPM from the factory and bringing it up to the 3600 RPM specified in the manual greatly improved the quality of cut. It appears that the speeds are set under "no load" conditions by the engine manufacturers and need to be reset when installed due to the drag of the hydro cooling fans and other drive components.

Your mileage may vary, but this has been my experience.

Running full up, of course. Exact RPM's... not sure.

Wouldn't slower blade speeds cause the clippings to simply fall out of the lesser airstream? I'm not getting clumps falling out of the deck, I'm not getting movement towards the exit once the pile-up begins.

On fella mentioned a collector with a blower on it. Great for what gets to the chute, not good for the plaque build-up 48" away.
.

JMoe · Aug 22, 2010

Mitch, mine discharges to the right. It does have some semicircular baffles close to the blades, but if you lift the discharge chute, you can see right across. I should have snapped a photo of it the one time I had the deck off. I was sweat'n so bad from the process, I would have shorted out the camera. The deck isn't hard to detach or reattach, it's just HEAVY.

Joel

Cub Cadet rider clogging

mitchman2010

slkpk

TimT

mitchman2010

mitchman2010

savageactor7

jim982

MTD snow plow

LLigetfa

JMoe

WNYTractorTinkerer

mitchman2010

JMoe

mitchman2010

JMoe

Mower_Man42

Rog02

mitchman2010

mitchman2010

JMoe

Top Contributors this Month

Recommended Communities