Solis has come out with the Electric Tractor. It seems to be targeting the home owner with small acreage. I do not know the price, but if the price was right would you be interested?
Electric Tractor
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Ken N Tx
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Not really, we installed solar panels last year that were sized to generate 80% of our usage based on the past years power consumption (a limit imposed by the power company). Reality is they can and have produced 70%+ in sunny conditions and 30-40% in cloudy, overcast days. Most days making enough power to take care of the house, shop and barn while still exporting power back to the grid. Not insignificant numbers. If EVERY house/building/business had panels installed it would relieve a great deal of the load on the grid making the overburdened infrastructure less likely to fail and offset the additional load of EV cars, trucks or tractors.
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I'm not sure most folks fully understand what it would take to install solar panels in every home and business in America. It is not inexpensive, easy, or quick, which is why it isn't already done. Think housing is expensive now? Just wait until builders are required to install solar roofs on all new builds.😄
Many homes, such as mine, are not candidates for solar panels based on geography.
If it weren't for government subsidies most with solar panels would not have them. Alternative energy options must be practical and affordable for the consumer. Unfortunately, we are not there yet.
Back to topic now...
Many homes, such as mine, are not candidates for solar panels based on geography.
If it weren't for government subsidies most with solar panels would not have them. Alternative energy options must be practical and affordable for the consumer. Unfortunately, we are not there yet.
Back to topic now...
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Your statements do not follow with the facts.
It is true that a car does not have enough surface area for current solar panel technology on a car to be able to power it for real time driving. That has nothing to do with whether solar panels in large enough grids can produce enough electricity to charge the batteries for a number of cars. Solar roof panels on people's houses do not generally create enough electricity for the total needs of the house, but they create a significant percentage of that and cuts the need for drawing electricity from the grid substantially.
As to your belief that there isn't enough wind in the world to power things, you apparently have no grasp on the amount of wind power moving past all of us all of the time. A single wind turbine produces a couple of megawatts of power, and guess what, the wind doesn't stop when that turbine turns, it continues on past the turbine. In fact, most turbines harness less than 10% of the power of the wind passing through them, but they are getting more efficient every day.
The entire county of Portugal has run entirely on renewable energy, mostly wind and solar, for 6 straight days recently, which includes recharging the batteries in all of their electric cars. The technology is getting better and better. They are developing ways to recycle the precious metals used in solar panels. A company is recycling old wind turbine blades and using them for making bridges.
You don't have to be a scientist to follow these things in the news.
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Ok! I will put it this way. There have been electric fork lifts in warehouses for years. They maybe be charged buy dirty fossil fuels. But the human element of breathing foul air is not there.
Your also not going to be operating a garden or lawn tractor miles form a charge port.
But I get it unless it can be plugged into 120 or 240 to charge. Just the charge port would likely cost more than the tractor.
I don't know the answer just like the rest of you. But if the world goes electric which I don't think we will. We won't have a choice.
For me I have some indoor work to do. Sure would be nice to at least play with an electric rental for awhile.
Your also not going to be operating a garden or lawn tractor miles form a charge port.
But I get it unless it can be plugged into 120 or 240 to charge. Just the charge port would likely cost more than the tractor.
I don't know the answer just like the rest of you. But if the world goes electric which I don't think we will. We won't have a choice.
For me I have some indoor work to do. Sure would be nice to at least play with an electric rental for awhile.
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You're obviously more knowledgeable than me on this subject matter so I will defer. Couple of questions though....
1. How many solar panels (in terms of sq. ft, I suppose) are required to power the 1.4 billion cars in the world? Just curious.
2. What would be the immediate and future environmental impacts to producing the quantity of panels needed to power these vehicles (we can disregard other energy consuming products for now to keep things simple)? Would those environmental impacts be less or greater than other viable energy solutions? Just asking, because I don't know.
3. Wind turbines are all around me where I live. Besides being pretty to look at, especially at night with their wonderful light show, I can't help but wonder if we use land for turbines where do we build houses and where do we expand farming operations? Maybe the desert is a good place for turbines? Dunno. 🤔
I think Harvard did a study on wind turbines a while back and mentioned that when used as part of a wind farm their output drops pretty significantly. It also noted that 1/3 of U.S. land would be required to meet current demand and that in doing so would raise surface temperature, especially at wind farm sites.
This doesn't sound good to me if the goal is to reduce the warming of mother earth. 🤔
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For me I like the idea of electric motors but it's battery power most people are against. Batteries are incredibly expensive and incredibly unreliable. Batteries have a short shelf life and degrade every time they are used and add in the fire hazard most people don't want them.
I don't know what the run time for an electric tractor would be but it won't be very long. They might claim 3 hours or something but that's only under light load and batteries lose a small amount of their ability to hold charge every time they are charged. It only takes 6 months for most batteries to lose about half their charge capacity and thats just one of the big problems people have against them.
Gas and diesel tractors will still do the same amount of work on a full tank of gas after a year than when it was new and can continue to do so for decades. Battery powered tractors cant do that and the battery will be useless before 10 years no matter how much or little it was used or how well it was taken care of.
I don't believe battery powered electric tractors or vehicles are the future, they tried battery powered electric vehicles/"tractors" 100+ years ago and it died off for the same reason it still isn't working now. The rapid decline of EV sales is a good indicator it wont last and the people who buy electric vehicles and tractors will eventually be stuck with a high dollar worthless paper weight. I don't want to see anyone waste their hard earned money on something that won't last. I'm a cheapskate with investments so I don't buy anything that isn't tried and true and a great value per dollar. That brings the question, how many people here own a electric battery powered tractor?
I don't know what the run time for an electric tractor would be but it won't be very long. They might claim 3 hours or something but that's only under light load and batteries lose a small amount of their ability to hold charge every time they are charged. It only takes 6 months for most batteries to lose about half their charge capacity and thats just one of the big problems people have against them.
Gas and diesel tractors will still do the same amount of work on a full tank of gas after a year than when it was new and can continue to do so for decades. Battery powered tractors cant do that and the battery will be useless before 10 years no matter how much or little it was used or how well it was taken care of.
I don't believe battery powered electric tractors or vehicles are the future, they tried battery powered electric vehicles/"tractors" 100+ years ago and it died off for the same reason it still isn't working now. The rapid decline of EV sales is a good indicator it wont last and the people who buy electric vehicles and tractors will eventually be stuck with a high dollar worthless paper weight. I don't want to see anyone waste their hard earned money on something that won't last. I'm a cheapskate with investments so I don't buy anything that isn't tried and true and a great value per dollar. That brings the question, how many people here own a electric battery powered tractor?
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Where do you guys get this stuff?
according to Forbes;
How many wind turbines would it take to power the US?
Answer by Michael Barnard, Chief Strategist, TFIE Strategy Inc.,
About 1.26 million covering about 0.01% of the land.
So this is a hypothetical scenario. Obviously wind energy wouldn’t be the only form of primary energy in the USA. Solar, hydro, geothermal and biofuels will also play roles, with solar being at least equal to wind generation.
according to Forbes;
How many wind turbines would it take to power the US?
Answer by Michael Barnard, Chief Strategist, TFIE Strategy Inc.,
About 1.26 million covering about 0.01% of the land.
So this is a hypothetical scenario. Obviously wind energy wouldn’t be the only form of primary energy in the USA. Solar, hydro, geothermal and biofuels will also play roles, with solar being at least equal to wind generation.
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Yes we have a large land mass. Not all suited for wind energy. We are just starting to figure out large areas of land don't have to be taken out for solar either.
Water channels and roadway medians are wasted area that can be used.
I like many other are oppressed to this jumping in without thinking. Not going to expand on that. It has nothing to do with lawn and garden equipment.
A daily compilation of WindEurope's daily reports of offshore and onshore wind production serving most of western Europe and UK, since 12 October 2022 shows turbine farms actual operational production vs capacity as follows: (12 October 2022 through 24 November 2023).
Several US offshore projects have been cancelled or put on "hold" this year alone. Several cite the need for as much as 68% more than proposed contract costs. And those do not generally include any form of energy storage facilities
Nothing against electric power, we all need and use it. However, it has its place in the world economy and has certain advantages and negatives, one must look at the practicality and financial viability aspects.
Just another aspect of power generation.
- Onshore turbines have run at an average of 23.5% of installed capacity (efficiency).
- Offshore turbines have run at an average of 29.7% of installed capacity.
"The green energy subsidiary of German electrical equipment giant Siemens just reported Thursday that it lost nearly a billion dollars in the last quarter. The Germany-based company, which dubs itself as "the global leader in offshore power generation," noted the wind industry has faced various unfavorable pressures leading to negative growth in recent months and years, in its earnings report for the first quarter of fiscal year 2023 released Thursday morning. The company added that governments would need to further assist the industry to ensure future positive growth."
Note that "Governments" do not have their own money. It is the tax payer that pays for all of it. In their report, Siemens Gamesa warn that new and permanent subsidies will be required. Not mentioned in their February report is that a large number of existing turbine farms are now within a few years of their design life expectancy and will have to be replaced. Several US offshore projects have been cancelled or put on "hold" this year alone. Several cite the need for as much as 68% more than proposed contract costs. And those do not generally include any form of energy storage facilities
Nothing against electric power, we all need and use it. However, it has its place in the world economy and has certain advantages and negatives, one must look at the practicality and financial viability aspects.
Just another aspect of power generation.
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In the very first days of commercial electrical energy, there was discussion about what would be the most profitable way to deploy the new technology; to run wires from a central plant, or sell small generators to users to produce power on site?
Voltage and frequency were decided on according to the needs and abilities of the time, with the use of steam engines to turn the generators, and wire wrapped in rubberised cloth insulation.
I often wonder where we would be today if different choices had been made.
Before distributed electricity, there were a few other ideas; high pressure water piped to your workshop for motive power. And of course distributed natural gas predates electricity.
Is there another medium waiting to be stumbled across by engineers of the future? Who knows.
Our good old internal combustion engine is another very curious machine. How could it possibly make sense to achieve rotating power by blasting a piston up and down?
And the valve train idea too, a totally whacko setup that has survived all attempts to better it for 100 years.
Will there be another 100 years of the ICE?
unfortunately, we won't be alive to know.
Voltage and frequency were decided on according to the needs and abilities of the time, with the use of steam engines to turn the generators, and wire wrapped in rubberised cloth insulation.
I often wonder where we would be today if different choices had been made.
Before distributed electricity, there were a few other ideas; high pressure water piped to your workshop for motive power. And of course distributed natural gas predates electricity.
Is there another medium waiting to be stumbled across by engineers of the future? Who knows.
Our good old internal combustion engine is another very curious machine. How could it possibly make sense to achieve rotating power by blasting a piston up and down?
And the valve train idea too, a totally whacko setup that has survived all attempts to better it for 100 years.
Will there be another 100 years of the ICE?
unfortunately, we won't be alive to know.
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1. It's not going to happen overnight. New solar panels are being deployed daily, both in residential and electrical grid settings. The technology is always evolving, and density of electricity production per square foot of solar panel is constantly improving. They are already installing solar panels over top of canals used for irrigation, which is land otherwise unavailable for other uses, and besides producing electricity, they also shade the canals so less of the valuable irrigation water is being lost to evaporation. So, not all new solar panels are displacing the land use for other things.
2. As I said, the technology is improving all of the time, and they are already recycling old solar panels to use the precious metals over again. so it is becoming less and less intrusive on the environment.
3. Most wind farms are being installed either off shore or on mountain tops where no one wants to develop new housing anyway. There are some in areas where off shore and mountain tops are not available, but those are the exception rather than the rule.
As for the raising of temperatures near the turbines, that is a localized phenomenon, which does not affect the global temperature rises. If you take energy out of the wind to turn the turbines, the wind loses as much energy as is used to produce the electricity plus the extra heat, so the overall resulting net energy change is zero. The earth is warming due to solar energy being trapped by greenhouse gases, not by any excess heat being generated by humans.
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He is 100% correct, just the other day I was reading about the development of solar panels that can make power at night. Have no clue how because it that takes much smarter people than me.
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Yeah that's been busted by eevblog video 1467 .
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There are already all kinds of weird combos out there. Try a cylinder with a head on each end and one piston. Constantly under compression.
For some it's not the matter of generation.
Transmisssion is a real big problem.
Oh, and can I just charge my electric tractor and car 440 dc direct from the solar array. Something most in Europe don't have to deal with is AC power. It makes systems pricey. But it's required to transport long distances.
My electric tractor from the future will never get that far from home. Even if it does just connect it to that beam of high voltage floating in the sky.
For some it's not the matter of generation.
Transmisssion is a real big problem.
Oh, and can I just charge my electric tractor and car 440 dc direct from the solar array. Something most in Europe don't have to deal with is AC power. It makes systems pricey. But it's required to transport long distances.
My electric tractor from the future will never get that far from home. Even if it does just connect it to that beam of high voltage floating in the sky.
From the tiny bit of looking at electric tractors that I have done (largely prompted by this thread), I think that they are really in their infancy. For instance, the IH Electric Tractor mentions "The 12x12 transmission has been upgraded with an electronic clutch-less power shuttle to speed up directional changes."
In my humble opinion, a successful electric tractor should only require a constantly meshed speed reduction, it should not need any "speeds", clutches or mechanical reversing.
The speed reduction / torque increase would be substantial - - it is not uncommon for electric car motors to spin at 10,000 to 20,000 rpm.
I would think several independent motors. One each for each drive wheel (extra credit for hub motors in the front wheels -- then no drive shafts or U-joints).
No differential, no differential lock. Individual rear wheel speeds could be adjusted based on front wheel steering angles to minimize the need for using brakes for turning.
A dedicated motor for hydraulics, which would only run if the hydraulic system is actually lifting.
Same with the PTO: an independent motor (likely with a gear reduction) completely independent from the traction motors - only running when the PTO is being used. Next generation implements would use an electric cable instead of a deadly widow-maker rotating shaft with U-joints.
Give them a few years (OK, decades?) and electric tractors could be more efficient, quieter, simpler . . .
Battery tech is still a challenge. It is hard to match the energy density of a diesel tank. There are some hopeful candidates -- lithium-sulphur comes to mind.
It will be a brave new world.
In my humble opinion, a successful electric tractor should only require a constantly meshed speed reduction, it should not need any "speeds", clutches or mechanical reversing.
The speed reduction / torque increase would be substantial - - it is not uncommon for electric car motors to spin at 10,000 to 20,000 rpm.
I would think several independent motors. One each for each drive wheel (extra credit for hub motors in the front wheels -- then no drive shafts or U-joints).
No differential, no differential lock. Individual rear wheel speeds could be adjusted based on front wheel steering angles to minimize the need for using brakes for turning.
A dedicated motor for hydraulics, which would only run if the hydraulic system is actually lifting.
Same with the PTO: an independent motor (likely with a gear reduction) completely independent from the traction motors - only running when the PTO is being used. Next generation implements would use an electric cable instead of a deadly widow-maker rotating shaft with U-joints.
Give them a few years (OK, decades?) and electric tractors could be more efficient, quieter, simpler . . .
Battery tech is still a challenge. It is hard to match the energy density of a diesel tank. There are some hopeful candidates -- lithium-sulphur comes to mind.
It will be a brave new world.
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Why not electric linear actuators?
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Not a battery expert by any stretch of the imagination but I did a good bit of research on LIFEPO4 batteries. Why? Because I own an electric zero turn mower that had AGM lead-acid batteries that failed fairly quickly - in less than 4 years. By failed, I mean the run time was greatly diminished. Sounds a lot like what you're describing in your post.
After doing my homework, I upgraded my system to LIFEPO4 batteries, which are more expensive than lead-acid but getting cheaper all the time. They made a world of difference in my mower. The experts are claiming 5,000 to 7,000 cycles or 13 - 19 years life, based on one charge/discharge per day. After this time the battery should still have 80% of it's capacity left. I'll never reach that average, maybe 3 times a week during mowing season. If the experts are correct, by the time my batteries go bad, the mower will have fallen apart or I'll be too old to care! They also hold their charge in storage much better than lead-acid.
I'm not a tree hugger, don't own an elec. or hybrid car, but couldn't resist the chance to try the elec. zero turn. No fuel to store or spill, no belts, no oil changes, no filters, no smoke, smell or loud noise. We also have 4 small tractors, all gas powered. When it's time to mow, everyone heads for the elec. zero turn.
I doubt I'll ever give up my regular tractors, but I can see a place in my garage for at least one elec. unit. I think the technology will keep improving and if the demand for elec. tractors grows, the pricing should improve also.
Would I buy an elec. tractor? Sure, but the pricing and run time would have to be better.
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I drive an EV and love it for what it's used for (local commuting), but in comparison I won't be getting a Ford Lightning EV pickup to replace my 2006 Dodge Ram diesel for long hauling, as they haven't even figured out how to charge one when towing a 34 foot trailer (there are no "drive through" charging stations, not that I have ever found), and the range drops in half, at best. Point is, I would have to be sold on the advantages outweighing the disadvantages, and those advantages aligning with my needs, before I would even consider it. So far, I haven't been able to discern any advantage other than "it's greener than diesel". Ask me if I care.
Electric actuators really ramp up in cost, as their force rating goes up. And for things like loaders, where you typically have a cylinder on each side, doing the same w electric actuators, you need some additional circuitry & components to make sure they extend/retract together.
But, IDK for sure, pricing could be comparable. Hydraulics could possibly tip the scale due to the parts/systems be more commonly available and understood now, as well as working with existing accessories.
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This is an important point; a tractor has different needs than a road vehicle, battery choice does not have to be set on lithium.
We can tolerate a much higher weight, we run slow and heavy. Down time (for home + garden machines) is longer too.
Shelf life is as important as total charge cycles, because the tractor might only be used a hundred times a year.
There is a lot to learn about batteries; power to weight ratios, charge rates, discharge rates, heat dissipation, and more.
55 years ago, I was a kid reading "popular mechanics" magazine. there was an article about an electric car all ready to produce, they just needed to perfect the battery.
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