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CPR for a CASE Trencher, hope I can save it

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R

RunningLateAgain

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Found this for sale on a country property, the owner told me "Well, it ran fine when they left it here 10 years ago" Ah, ok, well you all know how it goes, if the price is good enough I'll move it from your yard to my yard... So we agreed on a price, I bought it (first) and told my wife (second), smoked a winch getting it on the trailer and towed it to my house.

There is a picture before I dragged it off with a Kubota.

Known:
-It's a Case
-20+4. Has a Wisconsin 18 hp engine.
-Lot's of country yehaw "mods" from previous owner.
-There was squirrels living in it.
-Looks very sun baked, especially hydraulic lines, but I don't see any fluids leaking.
-With a new battery it turns over freely, but there are no spark wires. The previous owner told me that even with spark wires it wouldn't catch. He said he thought it was a bad magneto.
-If I engage the hydraulic pump and crank the starter it turns the digging chain, so the system seems more or less intact.

Not sure where to go from here, I have not owned or worked on a trencher or Wisconsin motor. Seems simple, I don't want to invest a lot of money in it but you know how that goes...

So first off I think I'll just clean everything up so I can get a good look, grease and lube all the fittings I can see. I got a simple owners manual with it, but it's not great on details.

Oh the keys he gave me have a beer bottle opener attached to them, works for me. Not that I'll be drinking and driving a trencher, but I bet I'm destined to have a few cold ones while tearing into this thing.

RLA....
 

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#2 ·
:Welcome1:

Great find, yup that would find it's way into my backyard also. My wife has long since learned that it's just best to laugh at me and my toys, then go back into the house where it's safe.

Post the data plates from the trencher itself and Wisconsin engine.....Model, code and serial numbers. Any and all information about the machine and engine.

This will help MTF members help you. :fing32:

.
 
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#3 ·
If you don't mind me asking, how much did you give for it?

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk
 
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Discussion starter · #4 ·
Alright, here's a few photos of the engine and plates... I'm guessing first thing is to drain the fuel, new filter, new spark plugs...

Can I use standard auto spark cables from the magneto to the plugs, or are they special?

How do I check the magneto for spark?

Thanks guys...
 

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#5 ·
Wisconsin Engine:

Wisconsin Motors Canada - Specs for Older Models

Parts Diagram for THD & TJD engines:

https://www.m-and-d.com/pdfs/Wisconsin/thd_tjd.pdf


Model
THD

Bore x Stroke
3-1/4"; x; 3-1/4"

# of Cyl
2

Hp @ rpm
16.8; @; 3600

Year Intro / Disc'd
1957; 1976
obsoleted.

* The THD is back in production in 2001 to replace the TJD engine, the horsepower was upgraded to match the TJD engine at 18.2 at 3600 rpm. The"D" at the end of a model # means is has stellite valves and seats. E.g. model VE4 and VE4D.

You can, if you want, make the Magneto electronic by replacing the points and condenser with one of the electronic chips made for single cylinder engines with flywheel type magnetos. Name such as Mega-Fire, Atomic, or Nova come to mind. I used the STENS Mega-Fire. Another thing about the mag. The cap on your mag looks in pretty good shape. As the cap ages, it out-gasses it's more volatile components. When this happens the cap becomes porous and will draw moisture causing the mag not to fire. You can seal ignition caps in this condition with Clear Acrylic Top Coat Paint.

Sticking Exhaust valve problems mentioned:

Just take the plug out and with a wood dowel, lightly tap the exhaust valve down on the compression stroke. Maybe flush some PB Blaster down the port before tapping. DO NOT hit the valve with any great force, you don't want to bend anything!!
Link>> Purchasing a Wisconsin THD Engine - what to look for? - SmokStak
Click to expand...
Parts Link:

Wisconsin Engines Parts & Wisconsin Parts Manuals - Engine Parts & Generator Parts - Continental Engines - Greenville, SC - Orlando, FL

Wisconsin THD, TE Q21 Full Gasket Set


That should keep you busy for a little bit, time for work. :fing32:

.
 
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#6 · (Edited)
I have the TJD on my old Hobart welder. Looking at the book the only difference I see in them is the crank throws on the TJD are 180* apart and the THD they are in line, so I Guess the only difference between them is the crank and cam. I really like the TJD on my welder!!
If you need a manual for the engine I can burn a copy to CD for the cost of mailing. I'd get the manual before removing the mag. Not trying to sell you it, it has complete instructions regarding getting the timing right before removal. The mag is easier to work on off the engine and can be spark tested while off.
Mike
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
Sanddawg, thanks for the translations... Much appreciated, gives me a starting point...

MLA that manual sounds great, I did a search online and found this one, I think it might be the same?

http://www.foleyengines.com/sites/default/files/WisconsinTJD.Manual.Complete.Reduced_0.pdf

John I'll be rummaging around for a set of metal core wires, just like you fellas I know I have a set *somewhere* in *that box* that I just can't find

Ok heres a few more photos of what I'm working with here, I really dig the custom solenoid placement, hey when you don't know where something goes just tack weld it to the high point - hope it doesn't charge my hood shroud when I'm driving...

Thanks again guys I'll post back an update on progress

RLA
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
Whoops forget the photos again, let's try this:

PS - He didn't charge me extra for the custom battery tie down. Said I could have some similar material if I wanted a seat belt...
 

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#10 · (Edited)
Yep, that's the same book I have. Read page 13 before removing the mag. Remove the tin over the head and using a flashlite make sure there's no mouse, wasp or dirt dauber nests blocking air flow. The one on my welder starts w/ 24v thru windings in the welder and the welder has circuitry to charge the batts. The PO had a Suzuki cycle muffler w/ a 1 1/4" nipple welded into it but hadn't installed it. I got it installed horizontally and braced on the welder housing. Nice and quiet!!
Mike
 
#11 ·
no2498 said:
for the plug wires you need metal core (not carbon )


john
Click to expand...
I just went through this with my Wisconsin. Not sure about magneto; but you can use carbon cord if you have non-resistive plugs (more common these days) Or resistive plugs and metal cord.

The resistance is to reduce radio interference, which kinda a thing of the past anyhow.
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
MLA thanks for the tip on the magneto, I'll have a go at it this weekend if I have time...

Hey Hydro, thanks for the reply.... The engine has Champion D16J plugs in it right now, they look a little beat so I'm going to replace them - They have D16Js at my local Napa dealer at $6 a plug... I have some old "regular spark wires" from my Ford 300ci, is that a good combination with the D16Js?

I have to admit, I don't know what a non-resistive plug is.

D16J Plugs are here:

https://www.amazon.com/Champion-564-D16J-Industrial-Spark/dp/B000B7TFP8

Thanks again,
R
 
#13 ·
just looked closely at your last pics. Looks like the hyd tank and maybe other stuff will have to be removed to see what you're doing for mag R&R. I'd just get new plug wires and plugs, install them and see if it will start and run. Just hook the new plugs to the new wires and lay them on the head tin to see if it's making spark.
Mike
 
Discussion starter · #14 ·
Ok, so the latest:

I made two spark wires out of parts from Napa Auto, plugged into the magneto and laid the spark plugs on the shroud and when I cranked it I didn't see any spark. I'm guessing next step is an internal inspection of the magneto?

It's buried kind of deep as you can see from the photos, so I'm thinking to really get a look at it I will have to pull it.

I see there is one bolt on the bottom of it, but there must be another on the top?

Also, before pulling it (or after, before I mess with it) is there anything i should do to make it easier to reinstall? Mark any positions or anything?

Thanks again...
 

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#15 ·
Take the white grounding wire loose from the mag in case it's grounding somewhere and check for spark again. It might be easier to just pull the engine because as it says on pg 13, there's a pipe plug over the mag drive gear you have to remove in order to line up an "x" on one of the mag drive gear teeth to maintain timing. Yes there are two bolts holding the mag and the lower one has a nut on the other end of it. Even where mine is in plain view it takes me two three tries to get the "x" back in the window. You might be able to R&R the mag cap in place, file the points and set them. Check the inside of the cap and rotor, put them back on and see if you get spark then. If the points and/or condenser need changing I don't think that's the position to do it in IMO.
Mike
 
Discussion starter · #16 ·
MLA, thanks for the suggestion... I pulled the wire and unfortunately still get no spark. I'm going to have a go at replacing the condenser, file the points, etc with the mag in place, with the tons of hydraulics I would have to move to pull the engine, ouch, not quite there yet...
 
#18 ·
While you have the cap off turn the engine to be sure the rotor is turning and the impulse is working. Yes, you can change the points and condenser in place, just spread a clean rag/ towel under the mag so when one of the little screws get dropped it hopefully won't fall into an impossible to see/reach place. A split tip flat tip screwdriver would really shine for this. For philips rub the screwdriver tip on a strong magnet so it might hold the screw.
Mike
 
Discussion starter · #19 ·
Ok, finally got a day off... I ordered a magneto rebuild kit, $38... At first I tried to rebuild in place, but there was just no way to do it considering how the engine is mounted in the tractor, so I pulled a few bolts and off the magneto came...

When I pulled it off I did it real slow and turned the mag around and marked the placement of the gear, you can see in the photo it has a small reference dot. I wonder if I don't crank the engine in the meanwhile, can I just set the gear in the same place (post rebuild) and bolt the mag back on? Or does rebuilding it change something internally that throws it off from it's current marking dot? I'm not planning on pulling this gear off, just replacing the condenser and points on the other side...

Here are some photos (there is a good video on Youtube on how to rebuild this exact same magneto):
 

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Discussion starter · #20 ·
Ok, so got it up on my workbench, locked down and ready to go...

Photos 1 and 2:
Before installing new parts. Not too bad inside. Points are a little worn...

Photo 3:
Not sure what this wire does (pencil pointing at it), the far end disappears into the coil. I took it out and soldered it back together. I think the solder glob might be bumping the side of the coil, not sure if that's bad?

I did notice that the wire on the replacement condenser is a little longer than the wire on the original condenser.

Photo 4 and 5: All back together with new points and condenser, and... Nothing. No spark. I get a healthy WICO "snap" with each rotation. Points are .015 apart.


It's the first time I have worked on a magneto, so I don't know what's normal. The two points sit together touching. When I spin the gear, when I hear the magneto "snap" the points separate then, but then after another 1/4 turn or so they sit back together again.

I don't see any spark between the two points, and when I hook up a spark plug from the "coil dot" to the body there is no spark. I also reassembled it and actually plugged in a spark plug and wire, held the business end of the plug against the body, spun the gear and still no spark.

I'll try and take a video to show you guys where I'm at..... Thanks!
 

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