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Rookierancher

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
So early this spring I picked up a Case 444. Long story short the owner blew up the connecting rod. I have taken the torn down engine to 2 different small engine shops. Both stated that it would need a complete rebuild; piston, connecting rod, crankshaft along with rings, gaskets, point and all other add-ons. Both gave me quotes of $2,000+ for a complete rebuild.

I have been able to only had a short amount of time to do much research, but have not found a crankshaft for this engine and tractor combination. I have found kits for pistons, ring and gaskets.

What is your all thoughts on getting this engine rebuilt? I have found a shop close by that will re-power with a Vanguard for just a little more than a rebuild. Right now I am not concerned with restoring this tractor to original build specs., but want to get it up and running. Link
 
#2 ·
I am not going to fault the engine shops. Most likely, both of them have quoted your job with new OEM parts prices and those add up quickly.

Joe's Outdoor Power routinely parts out K-321 engines on e-Bay. I suggest that you contact Joe and ask if he has a crankshaft for a Case. If so, then that will bring the cost down dramatically. Once you have the crank, then take it to one of the shops and have them tell you whether it needs more than just a polishing. If it has to be turned, then let them turn the throw and tell you if it cleaned up at 10 or 20 thou.

If there is nothing wrong with your block, other than needing to be bored.....then get that done so you know which oversize piston and rings you need. Kits for K-321's can be found on e-Bay for well under $200.00 that include piston, rings, wrist pin, connecting rod, new valves, valve guides and all gaskets and seals. You may need new valve springs and I think some kits include those.

The camshaft should be checked for damage and then profiled to make sure it is not worn. If the block still has the balance gears in it, then remove them and leave them out. The engine will run just fine without them but with a bit more vibration at idle. Buy a new governor gear for the engine, have the head resurfaced and also the top of the block if it proves to be less than perfectly flat.

If you take care of obtaining all the parts, then the machine shop should agree to reassemble your engine for you. Talk to them in advance about what they will charge to resurface the head, resurface the block, profile the cam, bore the cylinder, turn the crank throw, install new guides and then reassemble the engine using the parts you supply. They should have individual prices for each task.

I think that you should be able to get the total cost below the $1000.00 mark, no problem.
 
#3 ·
Good advice above! One additional note: If the crank is not broken, just worn, it can be repaired. Any shop that turns automotive cranks should have a welder that can build the surface up and can be restored to standard size.

It may be cheaper to find a crank, just offering an alternative.

I may have a Case crankshaft that needs to be cleaned up. If you're interested, let me know and I'll dig through my stash.
 
Discussion starter · #5 ·
Thanks for your help guys. Guess the first thing I need to do is find a shop to bore and mill the block, hopefully the head also. Second will be to gather all the parts to completely rebuild the engine.

So another question. What is the difficulty of rebuilding one of these Kohlers? I do have some mechanical abilities, as I tore down the engine to find out what the reason for it not starting.
 
#6 ·
Rookierancher said:
Thanks for your help guys. Guess the first thing I need to do is find a shop to bore and mill the block, hopefully the head also. Second will be to gather all the parts to completely rebuild the engine.

So another question. What is the difficulty of rebuilding one of these Kohlers? I do have some mechanical abilities, as I tore down the engine to find out what the reason for it not starting.
Click to expand...
Kohlers are one of the easiest engines to work on. Just basic tools + feeler gauges, and either micrometers or a precision caliper set. A dial indicator with magnetic base is nice for measuring end play but a feeler gauge works, just slower. If you have the machine shop bore it and check the crank, you can forgo the mic/caliper too. But, Plastigage should be used on assembly to verify rod to crank clearance.
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
Ok so I am in the process of getting parts all rounded up for this rebuild. So lots of questions, and I'm sure more will come as I go thru this little adventure. I know you guys are more than willing to help, and I appreciate that.

First, how are these engines in upping the power out put? I'm not looking to go from a 14 horse to 20 horse. But, any added power with out blowing up the engine is a good thing.

Second, are any special tools needed? I have a torque wrenches, feeler gauges, and full set of sockets.

Third, what should I ask look for in a machine shop?

I appreciate all of the help now, and the help yet to come.
 
#8 ·
Go to Kohler.com.

You can download the Service Manual for the K-Series engines at no cost. That manual will explain how the engine is dismantled, what tools are used and it gives all the spec's for sizes and torque.

Just ask the machine shop if they are experience at working on Kohler L-head engines. I can't imagine a shop that has not worked on many of these engines because they were sold in the millions and thousands are still in use today.

There is no need to boost the power. The back wheels cannot feel more than 12 HP anyway due to the limitations of the Hydriv system. Only the mower deck and the snow blower will benefit from higher HP.
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
incubus said:
I am not going to fault the engine shops. Most likely, both of them have quoted your job with new OEM parts prices and those add up quickly.

Joe's Outdoor Power routinely parts out K-321 engines on e-Bay. I suggest that you contact Joe and ask if he has a crankshaft for a Case. If so, then that will bring the cost down dramatically. Once you have the crank, then take it to one of the shops and have them tell you whether it needs more than just a polishing. If it has to be turned, then let them turn the throw and tell you if it cleaned up at 10 or 20 thou.

If there is nothing wrong with your block, other than needing to be bored.....then get that done so you know which oversize piston and rings you need. Kits for K-321's can be found on e-Bay for well under $200.00 that include piston, rings, wrist pin, connecting rod, new valves, valve guides and all gaskets and seals. You may need new valve springs and I think some kits include those.

The camshaft should be checked for damage and then profiled to make sure it is not worn. If the block still has the balance gears in it, then remove them and leave them out. The engine will run just fine without them but with a bit more vibration at idle. Buy a new governor gear for the engine, have the head resurfaced and also the top of the block if it proves to be less than perfectly flat.

If you take care of obtaining all the parts, then the machine shop should agree to reassemble your engine for you. Talk to them in advance about what they will charge to resurface the head, resurface the block, profile the cam, bore the cylinder, turn the crank throw, install new guides and then reassemble the engine using the parts you supply. They should have individual prices for each task.

I think that you should be able to get the total cost below the $1000.00 mark, no problem.
Click to expand...

I talked with the engine shop today. The engine needs a lot of work; the cylinder needs to be bored and honed, the top needs to be ground flat, both valves both need to be cleaned up, both valve guides need work, the head needs to be ground smooth, the replaced crank shaft needs to be turned down, and the carb. needs to be completely rebuilt and cleaned. With said work being done and the engine being rebuilt to within OEM specs. the cost is more than what I was hoping for, right now I am looking at $1,500.

As this tractor is new to me and has no sentimental value, I am not sure what I want to do with it right now. Looking for thoughts and opinions from you guys. I know you hard core guys are going to say rebuild. With cash and time anything is possible, right?

I wanted to add this for anyone else running into this issue. This price is from a local engine building shop that takes very high pride in what they do and demand the price for it as well. As these engines get older and with more use this type of rebuild will be required.
 
#10 ·
It may just be me, but that just seems a lot of money to rebuild a small one cylinder engine. Now I have never had a Kohler rebuilt, but I have had a 258ci straight 6 from my jeep rebuilt and I had less then $2000 in it. I have a Kohler I am wanting to rebuild on a ford lgt145 I am redoing so I may have to look in to this.


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#12 ·
What are they wanting $1400 for labor cost. That's seems nuts.
 
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#13 ·
Is this a machine shop or an engine re-builder? I would call machine shops and get a quote for a bore job and a crank job and valve job in your area. Find one that you like and let them degrease and measure your parts, then they tell you what you need to buy and then go shopping for parts. When you have all the parts they need to do the machine work give it to them so they can do there thing. Then you build it.
 
Discussion starter · #14 ·
So this a 2 man shop, one guy does all the engine tear down and rebuild while the other does all the machine work. The major problem I am having is finding a good engine machine shop close to me. I've contacted local parts stores and small engine shops. All recommended this shop, because it is the only one within a 100 mile radius that will do any machine work. I know I could ship it across state but I would think that shipping coasts will eat up anything that I would save. Then I would not be able to talk with anyone face to face if any problems arise.

The $1500 is for the tear down, machining, all new parts (oversized piston, rings, connecting rod, valve guides, gaskets) grinding the crankshaft, machining the top of the block, machining the head, cleaning and rebuilding the carb, and finally rebuilding the engine.

My problem is that I don't have the special tools to completely tear down the engine, i.e. remove the valve springs, bearings for the crankshaft... etc.
 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
rdmanone said:
What are they wanting $1400 for labor cost. That's seems nuts.
Click to expand...
This is $700 to $1000 less than the two small engine shops I talked with. Both of them wanted anywhere between $2000 and $2500 for a complete rebuild, depending if they used my block or used a short block.

At those prices I would really conceder a re-power with a B&S Vanguard. The Vanguard is about 25-30% lighter and more hp for the deck and snowcaster.
 
#16 ·
I'm dealing with the same issue. I will likely repower but I do have the tools for almost everything.

But I found many oem rebuild kits for around 80 rings only to 200 with the oversized pistons. Depending on size of pistons. That may help the cost also. But quality work does cost.

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#17 ·
Seems like someone is being taken advantage of. Very often cranks can be cleaned up...the tools for disassembly and measurement will be less than $100...a Kohler rebuild kit w rod and piston and valves is I think $125... You may be able to find a good block from joes or even cheaper ebay sources for 50-150...plastiguage is $4. Exhaust guides are the ones that wear cuz they get the heat...and I think you can punch out an intake guide and use it as an exhaust guide if you have a donor block...so def you can rebuild sub $400 and $100 is tools...
 
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Discussion starter · #19 ·
OK, guys so lots of bad news on the engine rebuild. Basically the only salvageable part of the whole engine is the block, and that needs work also. Like noted in previous post head, block, and crank all need to be machined. After further investigation the carb. will need to be replaced completely also.

The shop I am working with said that they would put in any parts that I purchased, but would not stand behind those parts. They have use "cheap" unreliable parts before and had to tear the engine apart again, sometimes twice before using high grade parts. I'm not trying to knock any of those sellers.

I am of the belief that when doing a job like this high grade parts are truly the way to go. When dropping "X" amount of dollars on a project I want to be sure that what I am getting is the best I can get.

So here it is guys, the tractor is up for sale. Yes the engine is shot, you all know what the issues are. The rolling chassis will come with a 54" left discharge deck, 54" front mount blade, OEM Ag. tires, and the mount plate and lift cylinder for the three point. Looking for $500 for the whole package.

I'll post this tractor in the sale section next week after you all get a chance to think about this first.




 
#20 ·
Man I hate to hear that ya have to sell it. I guess it's hard when you don't have the tools to complete the rebuild. When you have to rely on a shop to do the work it's gonna cost way more than if you can do it yourself. Well hopefully you can sell it and get you a tractor that will have a good running engine. :fing32:
 
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Rookierancher
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