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3410H won't move?

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yardiron

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I was given what was supposedly a working 3410H today. The guy let it sit for almost two years and the carb gummed up bad. 15 minutes and some carb cleaner and it runs again. He used it only to pull a wagon and to park his aluminum boat in the back of his house. It came with a deck but it's been sitting out behind his garage for years unused. The belt cover is rusted away and the blades are pretty well rusted. It does spin find though, it just needs a new tin cover and some new blades.
The tractor is also missing it's PTO lever, the hole is there but no lever. He said he removed it since he never used it and it used to trip him up getting on the thing.

Now the problem is that it won't move.
The clutch or brake pedal seems like its locked down part way?
Is there a release or lock somewhere that maybe tripped?
I can push it down but it only moves another inch or so forward.
On my 7117H, the pedal arm is near vertical.
The parking brake is released, I can see the band is loose on the brake drum, and I can here something happening in the trans when I move the lever forward or back, but it don't move. Its like the pedal is stuck down.
What am I missing here?

Could it be low on fluid or is there a clutch lock or freewheel release lever somewhere?
This is a different trans than the one on my 7117H.

How do you add fluid to the hydrostatic trans?
How do you know when its full?
What type of oil?
 
#2 · (Edited)
Hey yardiron, I'm working on a 3410H too!

There's a lever on the back, big thing. Throws it between neutral (so you can push it) and drive. Make sure that its in drive.
The fluid is in the big vertical cylinder, screw the nut off the top and peek inside. I believe the manual says the fluid should be just below the little screw in the side of the tank, somewhere around 2/3rds of the way up iirc. Uses Dexron Automatic Transmission Fluid
The transmission case itself uses 90w gear oil, be sure that's topped off. The level should be about even with the little pipe that sticks out the back.

Go to http://www.simplicitymfg.com/manuals/ throw in the model # and pull the manual, its helpful
 
#3 ·
On a hydro you usually don't use the brake/clutch pedal (some people push it in when starting to make it easier on the starter, but I never do). It's not a "clutch" in the normal sense of the word, meaning you don't let up on the pedal slowly to start the tractor moving. It needs to be fully up (engaged) when you start the tractor moving by using the control lever.

Probably the PO never used it either, so when you stepped on it it pushed it down but it's sticking. See where the return spring is (on the drive belt linkage) and pull back up (or whatever) on the linkage where the spring is connected to, that should bring the pedal back up and tighten up the belt linkage.
 
#4 ·
Ditto AC716H.

It happener to my Sovereign years ago. Follow the linkage back under the seat pan -- there should be a spring-loaded lever that it pivots. Chances are that the pivot point is rusted (as said before, it rarely gets used). Loosen the bolt, spray in some PB Blaster or similar and follow up with lubricant. Snug, but do not over-tighten, the bolt. Lube the rest of the linkage -- form pedal pivot back -- so that it moves freely. There should be several inches of pedal travel.
 
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#5 ·
After checking your linkage,and if it still does not move,check to see that the idler pulley arm is free to move and not stuck in the dis-engaged position.

Larry
 
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Discussion starter · #6 ·
The idler pulley and pedal are working, the belt tightens and loosens.
The rear lever is turned fully clockwise, with the rear hitch on it, it can't move either way.
I removed the plug from the tank, I can't see or reach any fluid with the engine off inside. I'll add some fluid when it stops raining here and try that. The linkage rod from the pedal has been cut and shortened with some nuts for spacers on the end. It looks like someone custom made that rod, but it's been that way for a long time.
Like I said, he was using this regularly and just parked it. Maybe it just leaks transfluid somewhere. The entire machine is a grease ball, there's oil on everything, engine, bevel gear box, and transaxle. But no immediate drips anywhere. How low do they need to get before they won't move?
Do I fill this up to that plug on the side with the engine off with Dextron?
Where do I check the gear oil in the axle?
How about the bevel gear box? I was surprised at how little wear was on the BGB too. The thing has new front tires, a new starter generator, new battery now, and soon a rebuilt carb. I've got a parts machine that came with my 7117H, which uses the same pump and box, but I know nothing about that one either.

It's a rough looking machine but it don't look hurt, just 'cosmetically challenged'. Its a mismatch of parts, the thing has a slot for a shifter, yet has a hydrostatic trans, the hood says 3410S, and the motor is an early 15hp, or at least that's what the shroud says.
Best of all so far, it's been free other than what ever it costs to get it going again.
I'm hoping it's just low on oil.
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
How much fluid does the trans hold? I put 2 quarts of ATF in the tank through the plastic plug on the side and still no sign of the fluid anywhere near the plug hole?
There's none leaking out on the ground anywhere either, and there was no stain on the ground where it sat before.
(I added 2 quarts and still nothing, no movement, nothing).
I don't see any 'pipe' sticking out of the tank, just two hoses and a blue plastic pipe plug about 1/4 of the way down the rear of the tank.

The pedal does slack and tighten the belt, it's just way low and has very little travel. With the pedal released the belt can't slip.
When I move the lever to Forward or Reverse, I can here the pump doing something, it sounds like a car's power steering pump turning against a steering stop. The tractor rolls fine, almost too easy, on my 7117H, I can barely move the thing, the wheels will slide if I push it too fast. This rolls with about half the effort.

I tried jacking it up to see if the wheels turn unloaded and still nothing.
It does act like the push release lever is off, but it's turned fully to the right and can't move left because the rear lift bracket is in the way.
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
windfish said:
Hey yardiron, I'm working on a 3410H too!

There's a lever on the back, big thing. Throws it between neutral (so you can push it) and drive. Make sure that its in drive.
The fluid is in the big vertical cylinder, screw the nut off the top and peek inside. I believe the manual says the fluid should be just below the little screw in the side of the tank, somewhere around 2/3rds of the way up iirc. Uses Dexron Automatic Transmission Fluid
The transmission case itself uses 90w gear oil, be sure that's topped off. The level should be about even with the little pipe that sticks out the back.

Go to http://www.simplicitymfg.com/manuals/ throw in the model # and pull the manual, its helpful
Click to expand...
I've tried getting a manual from the above site several times, it does nothing, it just returns to the original screen. Another post says I need to enter the model number not the model 'Name' (3410H), but this thing has no model tag left on it? The only thing that still says Simplicity is the hood.
The rest of the paint and numbers are long gone.
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
windfish said:
Ah, you need the Simplicity number.
Should be Simplicity 990757

http://www.simplicitymfg.com/document/index.cfm?doc=TP_400_1353_00_SV_S_LO.pdf
Click to expand...
That works, Thanks!
There's no such number on any tag on this thing anymore, or I just haven't found it yet.

I don't see where it says how much the hydrostatic trans holds total?
Any idea how many quarts?

I tried to get the top of the reservoir off but it won't budge. I've been filling through the small plug with a piece of clear tube and the top off a gear lube bottle.

How low do they have to be to not move?
I'll have to pickup some more ATF today and keep adding.
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
I filled the reservoir through the plug hole, it took just a bit over 2.5 quarts of Dextron.
It still don't move, not a thing, no sign of movement or it even trying to move. When I put the thing in forward or reverse, I can here the pump change pitch or make some real light whirring noise but no movement. It still pushes forward or reverse just the same.
The clutch pedal is working, it's just low, the fluid is filled to the level of the small plug, and if I do feel resistance when pushing the machine, much more now that I've added fluid. It sounds like it's making pressure, or at least doing something when I move the lever but nothing moves.

Will these move if the throttle don't hit full speed? The throttle cable is bad and won't go full throttle, but I've been able to throttle it up by hand and still nothing.
 
#13 ·
I'm going to hazard a guess that the air needs to be bled out of the transmission, I'm not sure how to do it on a Vickers.
The pump is turning, but there's no fluid in there to push - or its not pushing enough fluid with air in the pipes.
When I changed the transmission fluid in the Sunstrand on my 7116 it moved very slowly, followed the instructions in the manual for bleeding the air and it was fine.

Watch for the leak, as it looks like you lost all your reservoir fluid you def. have one. New seals are available at some local Simplicity dealers, JacksSmallEngines, or Partstree
 
Discussion starter · #14 ·
I've got it parked on a sheet of cardboard to look for leaks but it's all dry after 4 days so far.
The part that gets me is that the pump 'sounds' like its making pressure, but nothing happens. It sort of sounds like when you turn the steering on a car all the way and hold it when I put it in gear.

I also would have figured that with the rear jacked up, the wheels would at least spin when in gear but they don't move. I'm wondering if there's a valve or something inside that's stuck or something out of adjustment?

The engine changes RPM when I put move the shift lever, but not always, and moving it from neutral to full doesn't give me any resistance in the lever at all. On my 7117H I can sort of feel the hydraulic pressure there.
 
#15 ·
The bypass valve may be stuck open - the one that's operated by the freewheeling lever. On some trannys it's accessible from the outside, I don't know about yours. The key for the input pulley may have sheared, so that the pump isn't turning with any force. Just a WAG.
 
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Discussion starter · #16 ·
I don't think the pump pulley key is sheared since I can hear the pump running.
If there's a valve stuck somewhere, how do I get at it?
The freewheel lever hasn't moved in years, it's blocked by the rear lift bracket. The handle will only move a few mm, it's blocked in the up position or fully clockwise. The handle is pointed to 12 o'clock.
 
#17 ·
hmmmm....can you roll the tractor by pushing it? I am suspecting that your rear (the tractor's rear, that is) is disengaged.

Is you lever on the right side of the gearbox, just inboard of the brake band? If so, 12 o'clock is disengaged. It should be pointing to about 1:30 or 2:00. Sometimes you have to rock the tractor back and forth a bit to get it to engage.

I suggest that you remove enough of the hitch to be able to actuate the lever.

Also, you could pull the filter out of the hydro tank and see if it is clogged before you add any more fluid. The pump may be cavitating if it cannot draw fluid.
 
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Discussion starter · #18 ·
On the roughly same year 3415H I looked at, the plate stated that pushing the lever to the right was 'Neutral', and to the left was 'Engaged'. The trans looked the same as mine. The lever won't move on my 3410H, it just rocks a bit but won't move right. I did try rolling the tractor a bit when moving it but no luck. The lever itself is a bit beat up, it looks like someone has been prying on it or using a hammer, some of that may be due to the fact that the lever sits dead against the right side of the hitch bracket.

I tried to get the top of the filter off but it won't budge, I didn't want to force it so I just filled the trans from the hole in the filter canister. Is there an O ring or gasket under the top of the filter can?
 
#19 ·
Here's a shot of the rear of a 3415H I have out back for parts, the plate over the freewheel lever says that you move it left, locked into the bracket to engage the trans, and to the right to move it around without the drag of the hydrostatic trans.
I would guess that your 3410H is the same transaxle.
 

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Discussion starter · #20 ·
That pic looks like my transaxle but I don't have that waring plate on it. The lever is the same as is the hitch. Mine has a homemade ball hitch working with the factory lift. The way I read that is that when the lever is to the left or straight up and down, it's in gear.
Mine won't move to the right at all, it feels like its hitting something solid that way. It does feel like it wants to turn to the left though, I'm wondering if it might be twisted in some way? If the lift bracket wasn't there if feels like it would move to the left. On the 3415H I looked at, the lever actually stopped just shy of dead straight up and down and wouldn't move so far as to touch the lift bracket, on mine, its resting on the lift bracket and won't come over that far to the right at all. I'm going to pull off the lift bracket and see if it moves to the left, if so I have to assume either some has something together wrong or the lever is on wrong somehow?

Either way, it's not engaged with the gears, however, that plate says that the brake won't work with the trans disengaged, yet my parking brake holds?
Doesn't that mean the gears are intact?
 
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windfish
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