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Briggs 422707-121401

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McTurff

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I posted on lawn mower forum and had good responses!
But looking to find anything other possible problems that may have been overlooked!!
I have had this engine off 3 times and ready for a fourth!
Briggs and stratton 422707-121401
Problem is engine running wild WOT
All linkages springs are correct
Static governor adjusted each time every way possible
Carb is good and have new carb that I put on to back this up!
Upon opening engine first time governor was in place and functioned correctly at least visually!
So put back together and same problem!
opening up engine again governor had slipped off and decided to put a new Governor on put back together same thing!
So governor or arm flap not connecting to governor engine!
I have removed spring tension to see if governor will pull to idle and it doesn't
Only way to control idle at start up is to pull governor arm so its not working correctly inside!
From my interactions on other forum im down to a couple reasons im having problem Now
Either governor came off again which is possible if the retaining ring slipped again or i may have the governor arm flap flipped but I don't see how never touched it!
Anyway if anyone has any ideas or observations that would be great so far im stumped and about to dive in again one more time to see what im missing!
 
#2 ·
A problem I've seen many times was when the oil pan-rear engine cover was replaced, the governor arm was not held back in place when the cover was re-installed.
The governor arm tab that connects to the governor push-rod that the fly-weights contact to move-push out was out of place and would not function and would break the governor or would not function at all, even after statically adjusting it before starting the engine, causing it to run wide open.
I've seen people replace the assembly numerous times with a new one, and it still didn't function because the arm shaft wasn't held back when the cover was installed.
The arm tab that contacts the push rod part didn't contact each other because it was down alongside if it instead of touching it.
A lot of people don't realize it until after they put the cover on and reassemble the engine, then start it up and realize the governor doesn't function, then they have to take it all back apart again.
 
Discussion starter · #3 ·
ST1100A said:
A problem I've seen many times was when the oil pan-rear engine cover was replaced, the governor arm was not held back in place when the cover was re-installed.
The governor arm tab that connects to the governor push-rod that the fly-weights contact to move-push out was out of place and would not function and would break the governor or would not function at all, even after statically adjusting it before starting the engine, causing it to run wide open.
I've seen people replace the assembly numerous times with a new one, and it still didn't function because the arm shaft wasn't held back when the cover was installed.
The arm tab that contacts the push rod part didn't contact each other because it was down alongside if it instead of touching it.
A lot of people don't realize it until after they put the cover on and reassemble the engine, then start it up and realize the governor doesn't function, then they have to take it all back apart again.
Click to expand...
On mine I don't have oil pan cover or maybe that's the back of engine?
To split engine i am separating in half oil sump from rest of engine which the governor gear is connected to!
The arm and tab are on the cam shaft side!
But maybe that's what you mean!
I can't find any picture of orientation of the governor arm and tab
To reference of which direction it goes!
I don't think anyone has opened this engine before i did so its odd that the tab would have flipped
It had these symptoms before I opened it up and I was surprised to see a perfect governor sitting there!
Anyway im new to working on these and anything is possible on a mechanical device!
Thanks for your reply gives me one more clue to look for!
 
#4 · (Edited)
McTurff said:
On mine I don't have oil pan cover or maybe that's the back of engine?
To split engine i am separating in half oil sump from rest of engine which the governor gear is connected to!
The arm and tab are on the cam shaft side!
But maybe that's what you mean!
I can't find any picture of orientation of the governor arm and tab
To reference of which direction it goes!
I don't think anyone has opened this engine before i did so its odd that the tab would have flipped
It had these symptoms before I opened it up and I was surprised to see a perfect governor sitting there!
Anyway im new to working on these and anything is possible on a mechanical device!
Thanks for your reply gives me one more clue to look for!
Click to expand...
The oil pan/engine cover/back of engine goes by different names, but it's the same thing.
A lot of the governors were a plastic gear that wears out and can break, gear teeth wear off, and the little push-rod/piston sticks on its shaft causing failures.
We've seen many times the arm/tab not held in the proper position when the cover was installed, causing immediate failure.
Most books/repair manuals don't really describe how it is supposed to be placed/oriented when it is installed and cover re-installed.
Some video's show how to install it properly to avoid that problem.
The arm/tab rides against the piston/push-rod, that's what moves the arm/shaft/tab when the weights move outwards from centrifugal force, causing the piston/push-rod to move and press against the arm/tab, rotating the shaft which moves the external governor arm connected to the throttle linkage.
Also make sure the gear teeth line up to prevent damage to the teeth and causing a failure of the mechanism from turning and operating.
Hopefully that will help you in the future so everything will work properly just in case that's what happened when you repaired it.
Good luck with everything and let us know if you get it working again.
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
ST1100A said:
The oil pan/engine cover/back of engine goes by different names, but it's the same thing.
A lot of the governors were a plastic gear that wears out and can break, gear teeth wear off, and the little push-rod/piston sticks on its shaft causing failures.
We've seen many times the arm/tab not held in the proper position when the cover was installed, causing immediate failure.
Most books/repair manuals don't really describe how it is supposed to be placed/oriented when it is installed and cover re-installed.
Some video's show how to install it properly to avoid that problem.
The arm/tab rides against the piston/push-rod, that's what moves the arm/shaft/tab when the weights move outwards from centrifugal force, causing the piston/push-rod to move and press against the arm/tab, rotating the shaft which moves the external governor arm connected to the throttle linkage.
Also make sure the gear teeth line up to prevent damage to the teeth and causing a failure of the mechanism from turning and operating.
Hopefully that will help you in the future so everything will work properly just in case that's what happened when you repaired it.
Good luck with everything and let us know if you get it working again.
Click to expand...
 

Attachments

Discussion starter · #10 ·
McTurff said:
Click to expand...
I found this video at the end he shows camshaft side of engine and the governor arm tab looks the same orientation wise as mine
I have put this back together twice and same problem
The governor was in perfect condition when I opened it up the first time it spun and moved correctly but engine was running wide open
And no change when I put it back together twice that and adjusting static governor procedure!
So now im confused that what else could it be??
Anyway i have it apart
The new Governor is on and locked in to resemble but I will wait see what you guys think after looking at what I got going on
Thanks
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
ST1100A said:
A problem I've seen many times was when the oil pan-rear engine cover was replaced, the governor arm was not held back in place when the cover was re-installed.
The governor arm tab that connects to the governor push-rod that the fly-weights contact to move-push out was out of place and would not function and would break the governor or would not function at all, even after statically adjusting it before starting the engine, causing it to run wide open.
I've seen people replace the assembly numerous times with a new one, and it still didn't function because the arm shaft wasn't held back when the cover was installed.
The arm tab that contacts the push rod part didn't contact each other because it was down alongside if it instead of touching it.
A lot of people don't realize it until after they put the cover on and reassemble the engine, then start it up and realize the governor doesn't function, then they have to take it all back apart again.
Click to expand...
Are you saying I need to hold the governor arm by pushing it up or down during reassemble?
Added a pic of mine and a YouTube video at end the guy show governor arm tab looks just like mine!
Hoping I can put it back correctly this time!
 
#12 · (Edited)
Stretch5881 shows how to install the governor assembly onto the shaft very well and talks about lining up the gear teeth. If the teeth don't line up, they will be broken when the cover is installed.
In the pictures you would leave the arm down out of the way when installing the cover, then to adjust it, you would loosen up the outer arm from the shaft and rotate the shaft to fully engage the shaft to the piston/pushrod of the governor assembly and hold the shaft in that position while moving the outer arm to open the throttle wide open and hold the outer governor arm in that position, then tighten the outer arm to the governor shaft.
When the governor shaft is pushed by the piston/pushrod, it should close the throttle to slow the engine speed down.
In that engine, the governor shaft is installed through the crankcase. On other models the shaft is installed in the engine rear cover/oil pan, and they are a bit different on how to install and set them up statically.
The shop manuals should explain how to set them up and adjust them properly, but some manuals can be confusing, and people will adjust them the opposite way that they should be, then the engine will race at full speed and not slow down.
You have to watch which way the shaft turns when it is pressed against by the pushrod/piston of the governor when it is activated in motion.
Since the engine is upside down when you are working on it, it will be turned right-side up when you are adjusting the governor, things will be opposite so you want the shaft inner arm to press against the piston all the way when adjusting it and the throttle fully opened when tightening the bolt that holds the outer arm on the shaft so when the piston pushes on the inner arm of the shaft, it will move the outer governor arm in the direction to close the throttle plate in the carburetor.
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
ST1100A said:
Stretch5881 shows how to install the governor assembly onto the shaft very well and talks about lining up the gear teeth. If the teeth don't line up, they will be broken when the cover is installed.
In the pictures you would leave the arm down out of the way when installing the cover, then to adjust it, you would loosen up the outer arm from the shaft and rotate the shaft to fully engage the shaft to the piston/pushrod of the governor assembly and hold the shaft in that position while moving the outer arm to open the throttle wide open and hold the outer governor arm in that position, then tighten the outer arm to the governor shaft.
When the governor shaft is pushed by the piston/pushrod, it should close the throttle to slow the engine speed down.
In that engine, the governor shaft is installed through the crankcase. On other models the shaft is installed in the engine rear cover/oil pan, and they are a bit different on how to install and set them up statically.
The shop manuals should explain how to set them up and adjust them properly, but some manuals can be confusing, and people will adjust them the opposite way that they should be, then the engine will race at full speed and not slow down.
You have to watch which way the shaft turns when it is pressed against by the pushrod/piston of the governor when it is activated in motion.
Since the engine is upside down when you are working on it, it will be turned right-side up when you are adjusting the governor, things will be opposite so you want the shaft inner arm to press against the piston all the way when adjusting it and the throttle fully opened when tightening the bolt that holds the outer arm on the shaft so when the piston pushes on the inner arm of the shaft, it will move the outer governor arm in the direction to close the throttle plate in the carburetor.
Click to expand...
So i was not successful
And I am in the same place!
I made a video maybe it will help someone on how to or not to do this but feel defeated on this one!
I still think the video will be helpful for those with an opposed twin and the same problem!
I seem to always run into head scratcher problems on these kind of projects!
Maybe if you watch the video it will show if I did something wrong!
 
#17 ·
Looks like you got it back together ok. Now the governor just has to get adjusted properly and it should work.
Don't try to adjust it when the engine is upside down, put the engine right-side up, then begin to adjust it.
 
Discussion starter · #18 ·
Engine is back on and its a no go!
It won't adjust!
My only test that confirms beyond the governor adjustment is to pull all springs and governor should go to idle??
And it won't!
Would this be correct!
 
#19 ·
Another thing to check is the butterfly valve in the carburetor to make sure it didn't come loose or fall off and check the screws that hold it in place to make sure they are in there.
 
#20 ·
When you adjust it, push the governor arm to full throttle. Watch the direction the governor shaft is turning when you do that. Loosen the adjuster bolt that tightens the arm to the shaft and turn the shaft in the same direction the arm is turning it when going full throttle, turn the shaft as far as it will go while holding the arm at full throttle with all the linkage hooked up and tighten the adjuster clamp bolt on the governor arm while holding everything from turning back.
 
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