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Homemade Tandem Hydraulic Dump Cart with Walking Beam Suspension

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Discussion starter · #22 ·
Newsman said:
One of the most important things when welding aluminum it to thoroughly clean it... and then clean it again.

Before even beginning the welding process, the welder must clean the aluminum thoroughly. As mentioned previously, one of the challenges with aluminum is that it is more prone to impurities. Therefore, prepping the material correctly is key. Here are a few steps to follow:
  1. Use a solvent such as acetone or a mild alkaline solution like a strong soap to remove any oil, grease and water vapor from the aluminum’s surface.
  2. Use a stainless steel wire brush (used exclusively for aluminum) to remove surface oxides. This can also be done with a strong alkaline or acid. Always be sure to rinse and fully dry the part before welding.
  3. Assemble the joint and cover it if you won’t be welding it immediately. This will prevent dirt or grit from contaminating the joint.
  4. Always keep your aluminum dry and stored at room temperature. It should be welded within a few days, and if it’s not, clean the joint again.
There are plenty of posts about welding aluminum online. This is just one of many. Worth a read. How to Weld Aluminum: The Beginner’s Guide | UTI

I have friends who can weld circles around me but have told me how their learning curve for aluminum welding was a swift kick in the butt to get it right.
Preparation is key, followed by practice, practice and...
Good luck, great project.
MikeC
Click to expand...
MikeC,

THANKS very much for the link to the article and I appreciate you posting it! It was interesting reading it.

I do have a few stainless steel wire brushes the I use just for cleaning the aluminum but I'm going to pick some acetone today the further help in getting rid of any contaminates prior to welding.

Making the aluminum tub for this cart will be a new experience for me. The only time I played with it before was to weld up a couple of small aluminum brackets to custom mount the fish finders on my boat.

We'll see how it goes in the long run.

Roger
 
#23 ·
X748SE said:
I’ve previously converted my John Deere 17P dump cart into a tandem setup with a hydraulic dump but I found it was a bit small. When dumping material in it from the 45 loader bucket it would always spill over the front, back or sides. So I put the wheels in motion to build a bigger one.

Two years ago, I saw a piece of 5’x16’x1/4” checker-plate aluminum at an online auction and bought it at decent price. I’m finally getting around to building the dump cart now.

So I figured out how best to chop up that sheet of aluminum to make the biggest cart (tub part) that I could along with associated support pieces out of it. So in the end the aluminum tub will be approximately 48” x 70”. The base frame and dumping mechanism will be made out of steel.

I’ve been amassing the required parts for it over the last couple of years.

I used my 7 ½” circular saw with a metal cutting blade and a jig saw to cut up the first few pieces. I then took them to a local metal fabrication shop to get the pieces bent.
View attachment 2617575
Left and Right Tub pieces
View attachment 2617569 View attachment 2617570
Tailgate support pieces
View attachment 2617572 View attachment 2617573
Walking beam axle and axle support brackets.

I decided to use the wooden work bench that I had in the back shed and make up a frame so the pieces would be at a comfortable height to work on. Also added casters so I could move the whole cart tub around easy.
View attachment 2617574
View attachment 2617576
Left and Right tub pieces laid upside down on top of the frame and front panel profile cut to shape,

Next up is to clean up all the edges with a stainless steel brush and start tacking things together.

Roger
Click to expand...
You're quite the fabricator !!!! I'll be looking forward to the progress and completion of your trailer project.
 
Discussion starter · #24 ·
rcopo69 said:
You're quite the fabricator !!!! I'll be looking forward to the progress and completion of your trailer project.
Click to expand...
rcopo69,

Thanks for the compliment and for following along.

I did some welding on the tub that last couple of days. I'm sort of pleased with the results on the outside filet welds but not so pleased on the butt weld on the seam between the two tub halves. Even though I turned the voltage and wire speed up on the gun I found the it would not penetrate the the way I wanted it too. Had to do a bit of grinding.

Hopefully when the time comes to weld the inside part of the butt joint, I'll have a few more things figured out. It's definitely a learning experience.
Image

I bought a cheap CAD program a while back and have been teaching myself how to use it. It has come in handy to figure out the geometry of things before you actually start fabricating pieces.

Today I used that program to figure out the latching mechanism for the tailgate. I already planned for the tailgate to be on a 10 degree slope which in the end should be "self closing" when the tub is close to being in the fully lowered position.

So the plan is the have the tailgate latches open automatically when the tub is raised a bit and then fully close when the tub is almost in the fully lowered position. The picture below shows the range for the latch in the closed (solid) and open (dashed) and the envisioned tailgate swing (dotted arc).
Image

So this is one-half of the mechanism. The other half will be some sort of lever that will get activated on raising or lowering the tub and will drive a push rod to the latches. I have my fingers crossed hoping that it will work.

Roger
 
Discussion starter · #25 ·
I have been working on welding up the rest the tub over the last week.
Image
Image

Now I can work on the tailgate, it's supports and the upper hinge brackets for it. I didn't cut any of those pieces out because I wanted to verify measurements of the finish tub first.

I am finding that there is a very fine line between having not enough voltage/wire speed and having too much. Your setup may work fine for one type of weld but not on the next. it depends on if you are doing a butt weld or inside/outside filet and definitely how hot your work piece is. Having never really welded aluminum I must say it's been a steep learning curve.
Image


During clean-up today I found some evidence on the floor of my trials and tribulations.

Roger
 
#27 ·
dave_r said:
Yeah, I tried doing just a bit of aluminum welding (made a round vacuum nozzle for a large leaf vacuum setup), it's a fine line between getting it hot enough to melt and being a puddle on the ground.
Click to expand...
I have had more puddles on the ground. One would think that would be warm enough to bond things. But no!
 
#28 ·
During college, I rented a room in a house with 4 other guys, most of whom were in their later 20s. Two of them were welders at Electric Boat (worked on building nuclear submarines).

While they obviously couldn't say anything about the ships they were building (not that they really knew much), I do remember them saying how difficult it was to weld aluminum. And these guys did nothing but weld, for 8+ hours a day, 5-6 days a week, for years.

Oh, and the inspection process was intense. I think they even used x-rays for some parts of it.

So, my hat is certainly off to any novice who can make it look good!

Mike
 
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#29 ·
X748SE said:
I have been working on welding up the rest the tub over the last week.
View attachment 2618598 View attachment 2618608
Now I can work on the tailgate, it's supports and the upper hinge brackets for it. I didn't cut any of those pieces out because I wanted to verify measurements of the finish tub first.

I am finding that there is a very fine line between having not enough voltage/wire speed and having too much. Your setup may work fine for one type of weld but not on the next. it depends on if you are doing a butt weld or inside/outside filet and definitely how hot your work piece is. Having never really welded aluminum I must say it's been a steep learning curve.
View attachment 2618607

During clean-up today I found some evidence on the floor of my trials and tribulations.

Roger
Click to expand...
That looks like it came from a professional shop!
 
Discussion starter · #30 · (Edited)
dave_r said:
Yeah, I tried doing just a bit of aluminum welding (made a round vacuum nozzle for a large leaf vacuum setup), it's a fine line between getting it hot enough to melt and being a puddle on the ground.
Click to expand...
Ariens93GT20 said:
I have had more puddles on the ground. One would think that would be warm enough to bond things. But no!
Click to expand...
mikeinri said:
During college, I rented a room in a house with 4 other guys, most of whom were in their later 20s. Two of them were welders at Electric Boat (worked on building nuclear submarines).

While they obviously couldn't say anything about the ships they were building (not that they really knew much), I do remember them saying how difficult it was to weld aluminum. And these guys did nothing but weld, for 8+ hours a day, 5-6 days a week, for years.

Oh, and the inspection process was intense. I think they even used x-rays for some parts of it.

So, my hat is certainly off to any novice who can make it look good!

Mike
Click to expand...
PA318Guy said:
That looks like it came from a professional shop!
Click to expand...
dave_r, Ariens93GT0, mikeinri, PA318Guy,

Thanks guys! As they say, "It looks good from a far, but far from good"!

I'll tell you that I have now a LOT more respect for anyone that welds aluminum!

It's definitely been frustrating at times. I did an inside filet welded on one side of front panel which came out really nice. Went and did the mirror image of the inside of the front panel and the welds were just not as smooth and showed less penetration. Same setup, same cleaning, welded at the same speed.

As you can see a lot of grinding involved.

Going forward, I've been working on cutting up the required material for the base and tub frames and the placement of hydraulic cylinder. I originally planned on using a 3" x 20" stroke cylinder and was ready to go out an buy one but thought better of it.

So today I sat down and figured out what would be the best hydraulic cylinder stroke length to use. To get a design dump angle of around 70 degrees and I played around with it a while. I found out that a cylinder with an 18" stroke would best suit my needs.

The large circle represents the distance that the hydraulic cylinder will extend to from its attachment point. The smaller circle represents the distance from the tubs hinge point and the retracted cylinder attachment point. Where they intersect should be the spot where the extended cylinder will stop. The bold lines represent the start and finish planes when referenced to the hinge point and the arc indicates the path that the cylinder will travel when extending/retracting.

So by measuring the angle between the start and finish planes, it should give me my dump angle. In my case it is close to 70 degrees and I'm fine with that.
Image

Note: A 20" stroke cylinder would have given me an dump angle around 80 degrees but I believe it would have taken much more force at the start the lift due to the lower cylinder angle.

I wish TUDOR was still alive to run the numbers to verify my thinking. He was just amazing at these things. I miss him.

Roger
 
Discussion starter · #32 ·
LouToolGuy said:
Roger surely your X748 will move two tons, I hope you don’t have a lot of elevation changes to contend with. I could envision an out of control tractor situation w/o much imagination.
You are not allowed to get hurt.
Click to expand...
LouToolGuy,

Ya - I'm not worried about the X748 moving a couple of tons around on level ground but as you said it could become out of control quite quickly on a hill. Brakes will be part of the cart and will be activated via a brake controller in the cab.

2 tons will probably be the worse case weight to haul as I used the measurements of the tub and the basic weight of gravel as an estimate.

I'll post some pictures of the progress once the issue with viewing them are fixed up on this site.

Roger
 
Discussion starter · #33 ·
I've been working on the cart on and off through-out the week doing a lot of prep work prior to tacking everything together.

I used a drill press and hole saw to cut out the area for the hinge point bushing in the bottom frame.
Image

I then rigged up hydraulic cylinder to see where the cylinder pins would basically go so that I would basically have a 1/4" clearance for the fitting below the tub.
Image

Based on the clearance I needed, I then started to make the hydraulic cylinder attachment brackets using my chop saw.
Image
Image

I worked on the front and rear bulkheads that will house the hydraulic power pack and battery and drilled some holes for wires and hoses.
Image

Dry fitted the lower and upper frames on the bench and checked to see if everything lined up OK.
Image
Image
Image

Finished up the week by bending up the side panels that will enclose the two bulkheads.
Image

Next up is to cut up the cross-braces for the upper and lower frames.

Roger
 
#35 ·
X748SE said:
I've been working on the cart on and off through-out the week doing a lot of prep work prior to tacking everything together.

I used a drill press and hole saw to cut out the area for the hinge point bushing in the bottom frame.
View attachment 2619840
I then rigged up hydraulic cylinder to see where the cylinder pins would basically go so that I would basically have a 1/4" clearance for the fitting below the tub.
View attachment 2619841
Based on the clearance I needed, I then started to make the hydraulic cylinder attachment brackets using my chop saw.
View attachment 2619842 View attachment 2619843
I worked on the front and rear bulkheads that will house the hydraulic power pack and battery and drilled some holes for wires and hoses.
View attachment 2619844
Dry fitted the lower and upper frames on the bench and checked to see if everything lined up OK.
View attachment 2619845 View attachment 2619846 View attachment 2619847
Finished up the week by bending up the side panels that will enclose the two bulkheads.
View attachment 2619848
Next up is to cut up the cross-braces for the upper and lower frames.

Roger
Click to expand...
A lot of progress since your last post. Great work as usual, that you been posting Roger.
 
#36 ·
X748SE said:
I've been working on the cart on and off through-out the week doing a lot of prep work prior to tacking everything together.

I used a drill press and hole saw to cut out the area for the hinge point bushing in the bottom frame.
View attachment 2619840
I then rigged up hydraulic cylinder to see where the cylinder pins would basically go so that I would basically have a 1/4" clearance for the fitting below the tub.
View attachment 2619841
Based on the clearance I needed, I then started to make the hydraulic cylinder attachment brackets using my chop saw.
View attachment 2619842 View attachment 2619843
I worked on the front and rear bulkheads that will house the hydraulic power pack and battery and drilled some holes for wires and hoses.
View attachment 2619844
Dry fitted the lower and upper frames on the bench and checked to see if everything lined up OK.
View attachment 2619845 View attachment 2619846 View attachment 2619847
Finished up the week by bending up the side panels that will enclose the two bulkheads.
View attachment 2619848
Next up is to cut up the cross-braces for the upper and lower frames.

Roger
Click to expand...
Make sure you get enough bracing in there for the cylinder to push on at the frame connection. Better to have it there and not bend things.
Cross ties in the frame. The tie the cross to where the cylinder mounts. Anyway spread that pressure out as much as possible.
 
Discussion starter · #37 ·
LouToolGuy said:
Wow Roger that is so impressive! That thing is huge. This is fun to watch. I am kinda surprised you got so much done this week on your dump trailer. Seeing how much time you were dumping on me. Ha ha see what I did there? I may not always be funny but I do always try.
Click to expand...
LouToolGuy,

Ya, I've been working on it pretty well everyday and it is pretty big. I figure it is about 3 times the size of the 17P and I envision it also being used by a big ATV or a Gator type machine.

When it is done I hope that there is a lot more dumping going on!

Roger
 
#39 ·
X748SE said:
I have been working on welding up the rest the tub over the last week.

Now I can work on the tailgate, it's supports and the upper hinge brackets for it. I didn't cut any of those pieces out because I wanted to verify measurements of the finish tub first.

I am finding that there is a very fine line between having not enough voltage/wire speed and having too much. Your setup may work fine for one type of weld but not on the next. it depends on if you are doing a butt weld or inside/outside filet and definitely how hot your work piece is. Having never really welded aluminum I must say it's been a steep learning curve.

During clean-up today I found some evidence on the floor of my trials and tribulations.

Roger
Click to expand...
Might have been tough to figure out....but it sure looks like you did...that is really nice work (y)
 
Discussion starter · #40 ·
Ariens93GT20 said:
Make sure you get enough bracing in there for the cylinder to push on at the frame connection. Better to have it there and not bend things.
Cross ties in the frame. The tie the cross to where the cylinder mounts. Anyway spread that pressure out as much as possible.
Click to expand...
Ariens93GT20,

Your mind and mine are thinking the same about bracing! I definitely don't want things to bend from the pressure exerted when lifting a heavy load.

On the base frame the lower part of the cylinder will be attached to bottom of the rear bulkhead which has a base plate (power-pack and battery mounting) and will be welded to the front bulkhead. Those three pieces are made from 1/4" steel plate.

On the upper frame, for the cylinder attachment point I planning to have a 1 1/2" x 3" cross tube mounted horizontally and then have another 1 1/2" x 3" tube directly inline which the mount point extending back to the cross-tube that will be used for the hinge point.

Well that's that plan anyways!

Roger
 
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