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x585 H4, Joystick, Quick Attach mod & Grapple Build

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#41 ·
Smart to use zip ties to try out locations before committing with welds!

Mike
 
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#43 ·
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#45 · (Edited)
ivel03,

Great work on running your hydraulic lines and quick disconnect couplers. Zip ties are the way to go when checking how things will work/look before proceeding with final placement. It's coming along!

You already may have already thought of this and maybe is on your to-do list, (and this comes from my own past of hard knocks and lessons learned experiences), is to nip or slightly round off any sharp corners on any brackets or protrusions. Someday, your shin, knee, leg ,palm, knuckles and definitely your skin will silently THANK YOU for it! Just looking at the corners of your coupling bracket sort of makes me go ouch.

I don't know about you but I'm getting excited to see this creation all welded up and functional! I hope that you have a very productive weekend of welding.

Roger
 
Discussion starter · #46 ·
X748SE said:
You already may have already thought of this and maybe is on your to-do list, (and this comes from my own past of hard knocks and lessons learned experiences), is to nip or slightly round off any sharp corners on any brackets or protrusions. Someday, your shin, knee, leg ,palm, knuckles and definitely your skin will silently THANK YOU for it! Just looking at the corners of your coupling bracket sort makes me go ouch.
Click to expand...
That bulk head bracket is temporary and even so based on similar past experience i should have rounded them off!

I am getting excited too! I built this b/c i have a fairly large brush project to use it on and b/c i always wanted to build one. After that project is complete i don't know how much use it will get but for what i have in it i'm not too worried about it sitting around. The majority of the expenses so far have been for hydraulic 3rd function related, and even so if i had planned it out better i could have spent about 50% less than i did.

Thanks again for all the suggestions along the way.
 
Discussion starter · #47 · (Edited)
Made a lot of progress today. I was able to get a piece of 45 x 36 slotted Aluminum at a different junk yard for about $40 which seemed reasonable to me after seeing what expanded metal costs! I was looking for something like this in steel but when you're picking scrap you can't be too picky. Other than having to bolt it on instead of weld it on i don't think there's any difference.

As mentioned in previous posts the bottom mount of the cylinder is in the center of the bottom bar instead of behind it so i figured i would stagger the screening instead of mounting it all flush at the front. It cut nice and quick with the Milwaukee metal circular saw.

Welded in an upright above tines 2 and 3 and then added gussets to all of the tines.

Image


Welded up the frame of the grapple claw. I think all of it will hold even if some of it doesn't look the best from out of position welding, etc.

Image



I think the visibility through the screen is good and it is very solid after welding on tabs and bolting it. I don't have an exact weight but i'd be surprised if it's over 200lbs as easy as i can move it around on my welding table. I haven't tried to lift it up so i could be under estimating. I was able to pick up the frame before i put on the top claw and carry that so it's not all that heavy.

Again please ignore the mess in the background. I took these pics and then came up to the house about 15 minutes ago.

Image
 
Discussion starter · #48 · (Edited)
Well that was fast - called my neighbor to say the grapple passed all the tests i performed with the limited amount of branches and logs at my house. He said bring it over i had a tree fall down from the all of those winds from a while back so across the street i went. Passed all the tests there as well!

As mentioned above i went with a hybrid grapple design, somewhere between a clam shell and rock rake which i was hoping would allow it to be used for brush and for larger logs. There were a few times where the grapple failed on a single or few branches but for the most part i was pleased with how well it captured only a few branches. Here is an example of where i was able to grab 2 limbs, pick them up and cart them away. Pretty slick!

Image


The front of those tines need to be beveled as sometimes they will push a smaller stick forward instead of getting under it. More than anything i need more seat time running it.

Here's a pic of it lifting a log towards the base of the trunk. I was able to lift it and set it on blocking so my neighbor could cut it up at a more ergonomic height. In the background is the brush pile i made while he was limbing the tree.

Image


Neighbor was impressed with how well it worked as was i. It exceeded my expectations unless there were a bunch of small short sticks that were thin and straight and then it didn't work that well because the grapple claw didn't squeeze it as it wasn't full enough. That's where a true clam shell style would excel over the style i built.

There is a small punch list left including welding on the hose clamp blocks, installing the hose wrap, installing hydraulic caps on both sets and side of the quick connect and trimming the front of the bottom forks at a 30 - 45* angle. I used countersink screws in the existing slots to attach the aluminum slotted panel to the frame and it pulled a bit so as you can see in the pics it's crooked - need to fix that a bit. After use i'm also thinking of adding a upper claw in between 1 & 2 and 2 & 3 so that it lines up with the bottom tine allowing a better pinching effect for picking up things with.

Thanks again for the encouragement and advice along the way @mikeinri & @X748SE :)
 
#49 ·
Awesome to see it working so well for you!

My grapples are my two boys, LOL. Between the three of us, we've moved a ridiculous amount of sticks and branches (by hand, with carts, wagons and wheelbarrows) over the years.

I could definitely use a grapple, especially if I could make one from scrap. I don't really have enough work to justify buying a new one.

Mike
 
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#50 ·
ivel03 said:
Well that was fast - called my neighbor to say the grapple passed all the tests i performed with the limited amount of branches and logs at my house. He said bring it over i had a tree fall down from the all of those winds from a while back so across the street i went. Passed all the tests there as well!

As mentioned above i went with a hybrid grapple design, somewhere between a clam shell and rock rake which i was hoping would allow it to be used for brush and for larger logs. There were a few times where the grapple failed on a single or few branches but for the most part i was pleased with how well it captured only a few branches. Here is an example of where i was able to grab 2 limbs, pick them up and cart them away. Pretty slick!

View attachment 2617855

The front of those tines need to be beveled as sometimes they will push a smaller stick forward instead of getting under it. More than anything i need more seat time running it.

Here's a pic of it lifting a log towards the base of the trunk. I was able to lift it and set it on blocking so that it could be cut up at a more ergonomic height. In the background is the brush pile i made while he was limbing the tree.

View attachment 2617854

Neighbor was impressed with how well it worked as was i. It exceeded my expectations unless there were a bunch of small short sticks and then it didn't work that well. There is a small punch list left including welding on the hose clamp blocks, installing the hose wrap, installing hydraulic caps on both sets and side of the quick connect and trimming the front of the bottom forks at a 30 - 45* angle.

Thanks again for the encouragement and advice along the way @mikeinri & @X748SE :)
Click to expand...
ive03,

It definitely was a VERY productive weekend I see! (I was away all day yesterday) Great to see the grapple all welded up, functional and in use within a matter of hours.

You will find a multitude of uses for it and as you already experience, it is a great back saver.

I was going to mention it before about angling the bottom forks and I thought that you just didn't get around to it yet so I didn't say anything. I would suggest to angle the points more that 45 degrees (maybe closer 60) to facilitate sticks and larger logs sliding easier up onto the forks.

Another way that I find easier to pick up a bunch of sticks is to open the "claw" all the way and with the "forks" pointing straight down move over the pile of sticks, drop the grapple on top of them and then slowly "close" the claw to draw the sticks into the forks.

Glad that I was able to lend a virtual hand as I truly believe that it the fundamental basis of the forum in the first place.

Enjoy your new toy!

Roger
 
Discussion starter · #51 ·
Was able to get the hose wrap installed on the hoses to protect them from abrasion:

Image


Image


Also tapered/angled the bottom forks to make it easier to get under things to pick them up:

Image


Also remounted the middle panel of the "screen". Using countersunk screws in the slots skewed it so the top wasn't parallel with the top bar.

Also got the pieces cut for adding an additional claw directly above bottom tines 2 and 3, out of gas in the welder so no welding today.
 
Discussion starter · #53 ·
Thanks - i think it's coming together. I agree that i lack some pinching ability b/c the existing claws miss the bottom tines but the ones i'm adding will clamp objects to the bottom tines.

Paint will come sometime in the spring. At this time i'm thinking of paining it black. I don't have a good place to paint it indoors and it's too cold and wet to paint outside this time of year. Today was supposed to be 80% rain with a high of 53* F. It sprinkled a few times, it rained hard for about 10 minutes twice and also rained hard for 5 minutes once but i'd take that over the forecast. The weather was nice - it was warm and mostly rain free.

It's nice to work outside while it's nice - they're calling for 6" of snow Monday/Tuesday!
 
Discussion starter · #54 ·
Had to run to town this morning anyhow so i exchanged the shielding gas while i was at it. Did this at TSC which doesn't seem to be much more if at all than the large gas suppliers however they're open nights and weekends which the AirGas/PraxAir type places aren't if they'll even let a home gamer like me do business with them at all! :D TSC was easy to deal with and it was less than 15 minutes including checkout.

Got the bottom claw pieces welded up.

Image


Took it for a test drive - works much better. It's all dirty from "stiring up" the neighbors mulch pile. I have a pile of apple tree trimmings that i've been using for grapple testing. It is an assortment of long and short pieces and the grapple in all cases works better. I can now pick up a round by pinching it between the claw and the bottom tine.

Still getting used to the hydraulic controls but from the little i've used it i really like it.
 
#55 ·
ivel03 said:
Had to run to town this morning anyhow so i exchanged the shielding gas while i was at it. Did this at TSC which doesn't seem to be much more if at all than the large gas suppliers however they're open nights and weekends which the AirGas/PraxAir type places aren't if they'll even let a home gamer like me do business with them at all! :D TSC was easy to deal with and it was less than 15 minutes including checkout.

Got the bottom claw pieces welded up.

View attachment 2618307

Took it for a test drive - works much better. It's all dirty from "stirring up" the neighbors mulch pile. I have a pile of apple tree trimmings that I've been using for grapple testing. It is an assortment of long and short pieces and the grapple in all cases works better. I can now pick up a round by pinching it between the claw and the bottom tine.

Still getting used to the hydraulic controls but from the little I've used it i really like it.
Click to expand...
Ivel03,

I can see how those 2 additional claws would be beneficial. I know from my own experience that using a joystick and column a mount lever to control the claw is a bit awkward at first but it becomes second nature after a while.

Is the long term plan to weld on the hose mounts to the 45 loader or are you looking at keeping it unmodified so to speak?

Now that you have an somewhat "independent" H4 setup what plans do you have for the rear outlets?

Roger
 
#56 ·
do your extra claws bottom on the lower tines? I would think having them bypass would give the best "grab" function. Seeing your build makes me want one even more. I need to get my plans together for the H4.
 
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Discussion starter · #57 · (Edited)
X748SE said:
I can see how those 2 additional claws would be beneficial. I know from my own experience that using a joystick and column a mount lever to control the claw is a bit awkward at first but it becomes second nature after a while.
Click to expand...
I'm sure it will become second nature after a while. I'm still trying to figure out if close grapple is more natural away from me or towards me. My H4 conversion uses a factory JD valve mounted similar to yours under the fender deck and the bottom lever is the float lever but as it's reversed all the way back is float. So if i make close grapple be pull towards me and pull too hard it goes to the float position but in the little time i've ran it pushing forward to grapple something doesn't feel natural.

X748SE said:
Is the long term plan to weld on the hose mounts to the 45 loader or are you looking at keeping it unmodified so to speak?
Click to expand...
Yesterday I welded on the upper most hose mount to the loader arm but didn't snap a pic of it. I purchased a total of 3 of them but i'm not sure if i need all 3. Hoses from surplus center are sold in 1' increments - i purchased a 72" hose b/c i didn't think i could easily waste the extra on an 84" hose. I'm not quite happy with the hoses routed through the factory lines on the left side of the tube. Ideally i would use a 90* instead of a 45* going into the NPT to ORB adapter and then mount the bracket closer to the left loader arm - similar to how yours is i believe. I don't know that i have enough hose length for that though. Until i finish the bracket on the loader tube i won't know where to put the lowest hose mount on the loader arm. What i have right now is fuctional with the zip tie although it's pretty janky! :)

X748SE said:
Now that you have an somewhat "independent" H4 setup what plans do you have for the rear outlets?
Click to expand...
No real plans at this time. I did try to build the grapple such that i could pull a couple of pins and remove the hydraulic cylinder and use it for an implement on the back should i ever build one.
 
Discussion starter · #58 ·
turboaudi80 said:
do your extra claws bottom on the lower tines? I would think having them bypass would give the best "grab" function. Seeing your build makes me want one even more. I need to get my plans together for the H4.
Click to expand...
Yes - the extra claws bottom on the lower tines. Having them bypass would give you the best grab function however with the cylinder i used and to maximize the open the tines don't bypass the cylinder runs out of stroke when about level with the bottom of the tines +/- 1/4". If they did bypass then the tines would stick out the bottom when fully closed which i didn't want.

If you couldn't tell i'm designing this as i go and in my mind i thought that having longer tines and a larger opening when fully closed would be advantageous over the clam shell style. The claws of the clam shell style are 6 - 8" off the back of the grapple where i have about 12" and the clamping vector of the clam shell style is more horizontal towards the operator vs the 45* clamping vector of the one i built is.

Time will tell if it's a good design. It's certainly better than no grapple.

turboaudi80 said:
Seeing your build makes me want one even more. I need to get my plans together for the H4.
Click to expand...
What are you lacking? I thought you already had the joysitck which was a major expense of my conversion. If you're thinking of doing hard lines and need to borrow a 3/8" tubing bender and JIC flaring tools let me know, i also purchased extra of every fitting when i placed my orders just to try to not be waiting on parts which was sort of successful.
 
#59 ·
Thanks for the offer to help/tools. I have a bender and a really nice flaring tool. I have not bought the joystick yet. I do have a spare factory SCV, but I was considering just buying a new joystick for ease of mounting and install. I'm planning on transplanting a X595 rear end into my 455 and when I have it all apart, that would be the time to do the hydraulic plumbing too.
 
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#60 ·
Have you guys considered using a multifunction joystick, so you can run the grapple without taking your hand off the loader control?

Mike
 
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