Nuisance Lighting

Ariens93GT20 · Feb 16, 2022

Flaken said:
Oh, the history of electricity and electric lighting is fascinating reading. Especially those individuals that gave their names to the field. Westinghouse was a major developer who helped finance Tesla. I mean where would we be without Tesla and his new fangled alternating current and his development of electrical motors?

We would all be using DC with power plants closer to home. Alternative emerge would not need inverters. Tesla was a blessing and a curse.

Bluegrass 82 · Feb 16, 2022

Flaken said:
Looking for advice on a problem of nuisance lighting by a commercial neighbor.

My house & property are directly across the county highway from a local power company. This power company has both administrative and field workers present during the daytime hours of 7:00 AM to 5:00 PM Monday through Friday. Except for a single nighttime dispatch/operator, no one else is present during the night or on weekends. A number of buildings and an area for electrical infrastructure supplies and field work trucks are there. This is a rural area.

This company has multiple exterior lighting sources to illuminate their property and beyond their property lines. Some of this lighting sources are aimed directly at my house and property. When I first moved in here in 2015, they had two 250 watt high pressure sodium (HPS) lamps on the side of one of their buildings directed towards the county highway and my house to illuminate a small section inside their fence. It took two years of complaining to the company and to local public officials before they turned the lights off.

Then about 2 years ago, they erected parking lot lights for a parking lot almost directly across the road. These lights are directed downward but with transparent shields so the light output does illuminate the front of my house. Did have to blackout my bedroom window but the lights were not too bad for nighttime porch sitting.
Late last year, the company added a number of exterior floodlights. In my experience, exterior floodlights are mounted in a horizontal plane to give wide coverage to the areas under them. Not so with these new floodlights, they are mounted almost vertical with the light source (LED) aimed directly at my house and property. Talk about bright! Can't use my front or side porches after dusk when these lights turn on.

So, for the last several months, I have been contacting just about anyone to do something with these lights. First I contacted one of the company's commissioners. That got me a home visit by the company's maintenance supervisor. He basically hemmed & hawed and nothing changed. Then I went to the mayor of our small town. He put a little bit of effort and contacted an executive there. Still nothing. Sent a letter to the executive that the mayor contacted. No response.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

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I am a builder and developer. Typically in our area the county planning and zoning has ordinance that requires all property owners to keep the light on their own property. Typically in my area an illumination plan has to be approved by the county before parking lot lights can go up. I would check with your local planning and zoning department and or building department. They may not go around looking for violations but may enforce it for you if you point out where your neighboring business is violating the code. Below is a sample requirement found in my local Zoning Regulations.

{Any parking area intended to be used during non-daylight hours shall be properly illuminated to avoid accidents. During the Plan Review Process, the Zoning Administrator has the authority to require plans specifying foot candle minimums and illumination patterns when lighting is an integral part of a developments use (See Figure 33.6). Any lights used to illuminate any out-of-doors area shall be arranged to minimize direct illumination, reflection, or glare on any adjoining property or on any public street (See ARTICLE 31). Measurable light shall be less than one (1) footcandle at all property lines. Exterior fixtures mounted on freestanding masts shall be downlit, and the light from exterior floodlights and wall packs mounted on buildings and similar structures shall be directed at 45 degrees or more below horizontal.}

You maybe able to find your local zoning regulations online and search for the word "light" to find any applicable ordinances quickly.

dalek · Feb 16, 2022

Flaken said:
It had always been a lifelong dream to retire in a place off the beaten path where it was warm. Of course, the path that I took to reach where I am now had nothing to do with that dream. I figgered I would have some money, not be disabled and a couple of other. Still, after a lifetime of freezing half the year in that frigid north all over the US, I'm very happy where I'm at. I still get a kick out of mowing in January or February.

I been reading this thread and got to this point, so far. When I looked at the pictures, my first thought was, how fast does that grass grow? From the looks of it, it gets almost as much light at night as it does during the day. The wavelength might be different but still, it is white light. Grass will likely grow with it.

One would think that just walking over and asking them to adjust the lights would be enough. Surely they can illuminate the place without lighting up the whole neighborhood. We have a nighbor down the road at a intersection that is hard to see. Some folks asked the guy on the corner if he would get the power company to put in a light. Not only did he ask for one, he's paying for it as well. In the county, they don't do free lights. It helps people trying to see the intersection and lights up his whole front yard. It's also cheaper than the halogen lights he had on the front of his house. I just don't get why asking them to fix it doesn't work. To me, it's . . . . . rude.

DAVISULL · Feb 16, 2022

I'm on the Zoning Board of Appeals in my rural town. Anytime someone applies for a permit for a building with exterior lighting they have to meet a standard called "dark sky'' lighting. Ask your local building inspector if this applies to your area, and if so ask that it be enforced with your neighbor. Also check with the building inspector to see if they were permitted for the new lighting. If not, as a last resort you (and any other neighbors affected) can file a "private nuisance" lawsuit. This can't be ignored because it will have to go through the local court if they refuse to comply. It's called a private nuisance because it only affects a small number of people, not the general public. Good luck.

Rsm61 · Feb 16, 2022

Like others have said, it might be a difficult road ahead, but keep trying. In my area, we have a local TV station that will sometimes take on issues like this as kind of a consumer advocate. I also like the newspaper idea. I wouldn't start shining lights in other people's windows, that's only going to make people not want to work with you. Try to get them to come to your house after dark to see it.
I've got a street light about 20 feet from my upstairs bedroom window, which is right above my front porch. And my neighbor has a floodlight on the back of his house that shines my way. I had to put blackout shades all over my house, and I hung a blind on one end of my porch. I really didn't like having to do that, but it works, and I'm over it now. And I ended up actually liking the blinds on the porch. I think it looks nice, and adds a better feeling of privacy.

Flaken · Feb 16, 2022

Thank you for the information, Bluegrass 82.

I've mentioned that there are no ordinances, either city or county, that apply in this lighting issue. The State of Florida does have an ordinance pertaining to lighting, but it only applies to sea turtle hatching. Other cities and counties do have some ordinances like Gainesville, where it is much as you say.

Stopped in this morning to speak with one of the utility's commissioners, same one as before, so he is aware of the progress, or lack of. Told him of the impromptu meeting with the maintenance supervisor who didn't know that the issue was current. Told him of the repeated attempts to contact the V.P. & the maintenance supervisor with pictures & letters delivered to the receptionist and that no one has contacted me. The commissioner took the photos taken last Friday night and a copy of the letter to the V.P. He said that the commissioners have a formal meeting this coming Tuesday. The CEO will also be present and the commissioner will bring it up at that meeting. Now it is just another wait & see what happens.

Thank you for all the comments!.

John M jr · Feb 16, 2022

They should add motion sensing lighting .Only on when they are needed .

Flaken · Feb 16, 2022

John M jr said:
They should add motion sensing lighting .Only on when they are needed .

Oh, I agree! From everything I've learned so far with this, the LED floodlights were purchased & installed by their maintenance department who followed the picture on the box as far as installation. Whoever determined where the lights would be installed is unknown. I really think the entire thing was a spur of the moment. There are a multitude number of ways this lighting project could be improved, especially since there are no workers there after 5:00 PM. I've already suggested to them to make use of a switch so that when workers are in the yard at night, that they turn it on/off as needed.

As I have said, I have no problem with them installing new lighting. I just don't want their new lighting to illuminate my house & property as it is now. I do occasionally sit on my front porch at night, but can't with these LED floodlights searing my eyeballs.

Lane · Feb 16, 2022

1 point out a criminal would have a harder time if there were NO lights, then he'd have to use his own flashlight and be obvious.
2 point out the lights are blinding, and if there were someone walking down the road, any driver will say I didn't see them as the lights blinded me.
3 A loss of value on your property value.lawsuit
4 a light pollution lawsuit may be a last resort as mentioned

Edit: I'll add that if they want the lights for security, they should be close to the property line and pointing inward to light up the area in question. Then anyone even just driving by could see what's going on instead of being blinded by the "security" lights. (wonder if the thieves are paying off the light installers as I see the same thing in Missouri.

TrakFan · Feb 17, 2022

You mentioned you live in a rural area, but even the most rural have other folks living there. Try going house to house (beyond your immediate neighbors) and try to get some support. Were you able to get a couple of dozen families to back you, when you go to the county with a complaint, now there is some political muscle the officials will have to deal with. Too, if a dozen families start complaining to the utility, this becomes a worthy news story. Call up the nearest big city, if things are slow, the local news station might be interested in taking on the utility. Corporations hate bad press, and something like this is so easy for them to fix.

How about contacting the board of directors of this utility. I'd bet they don't want adverse publicity.

Flaken · Feb 17, 2022

Thank you for the comments & suggestions!

It is a confusing application of lighting their property. The excessive amount of lights in a very small parking lot (~20 cars max) that isn't used at night. The LED floodlights, they have 2 at the backside of their Administration building and 3 more overlooking their pole yard. Of the five LED floodlights, four are pointing at my house and one is blocked by their Engineering building, though the halo is seen.

The utility commissioner that I spoke with this morning, he owns the paint store in town here, is sympathetic to my concerns. Guess I'll find out after Tuesday when the commissioner brings it up at their meeting.

There is a grand total of 4 neighbors that may be affected by these lights. All 4 are renters and the owners are scattered far away.

TrakFan · Feb 17, 2022

Flaken said:
There is a grand total of 4 neighbors that may be affected by these lights. All 4 are renters and the owners are scattered far away.

I think you missed my point. In a rural area, as a good friend once told me, when a neighbor calls, you answer, lest you need help for something and end up alone. Other homeowners (not only neighbors) might support you for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is general dislike of utility companies. My point is to gather political power where you can. A group can exert more pressure than one person.

Flaken · Feb 17, 2022

No, I didn't miss your point, TrakFan. It is just that my neighbors cannot be depended upon even in the case of emergency. When Michael passed directly overhead in 2018, none of them even left their houses while I was cleaning up their yards and the streets of debris. They are renters and I mean that in the bad way. Oh, there are great people in town and outside town here, just wish my close neighbors were the same.

Another interesting thing is that this electric utility does not do any work within the city limits. Their territory is huge here in the panhandle of Florida, but they do no work in the city they reside and are headquartered in.

Flaken · Feb 23, 2022

Well, the meeting of the commissioners took place yesterday and I stopped in today at the commissioner that I've been talking with to touch bases with him. He said that the company is aware of my concerns with the outdoor lighting and he gave the copy of my letter & pictures to the company's attorney. He also said that the VP in charge of the grounds is supposed to meet with the maint. super sometime at night to assess what can be done.

All in all, I'm not holding my breath. I got the distinct impression from talking with the commissioner that no one cares that someone is complaining of things they do. Corporate arrogance, or we are a big wheel in this small town and can do anything we want. I may be wrong, but that was the impression I got.

Now to wait, yet again, for them to do their night assessment.

PA318Guy · Feb 23, 2022

Flaken said:
Well, the meeting of the commissioners took place yesterday and I stopped in today at the commissioner that I've been talking with to touch bases with him. He said that the company is aware of my concerns with the outdoor lighting and he gave the copy of my letter & pictures to the company's attorney. He also said that the VP in charge of the grounds is supposed to meet with the maint. super sometime at night to assess what can be done.

All in all, I'm not holding my breath. I got the distinct impression from talking with the commissioner that no one cares that someone is complaining of things they do. Corporate arrogance, or we are a big wheel in this small town and can do anything we want. I may be wrong, but that was the impression I got.

Now to wait, yet again, for them to do their night assessment.

I have 19 years of experience with county Commissioners, they can any number of approaches to dealing with problems, and "no action" is an option for them. You will be better served having more than just your name on a letter, if you can get those other owners of the rental properties to support you it may make a difference.

Flaken · Feb 23, 2022

Whoa Doggy!!! Spoke too soon.

Since it is fairly warm out in the 80's, I've been burning all the roots and other strewn about the yard. As I filled the barrel yet again, as I turned, I saw a bucket truck by one of the LED floodlights and they took it down, then moved to the next one. Called the commissioner and thanked him for his quick work. I did remind him of the glare from the unshielded parking lot lights. Maybe all is not lost!

Flaken · Feb 24, 2022

Got some pics today!
The first one is them removing the LED floodlight and the second one they are adjusting another.
Next two pics are what it shows at night now. Big difference with the first and not so much with the second. The glare from the parking lot lights is still there, but the LED floodlights that were in the back center are gone. In the last pic, the drive is well lit from the street light overhead, but the light itself can't be seen due to the porch roof overhang. That one has never bothered me as the much as those parking lot lights have as they are unshielded and you can see the LED source itself.

TrakFan · Feb 24, 2022

Flaken said:
Got some pics today!

Congratulations! Squeaky wheel always gets the grease. LOL, maybe you should have sauntered over there, smiled at the guys, and asked if you could have the LED fixture they took down. That would have taken BIG cojones!!

Flaken · Feb 24, 2022

Took a smoked pork tenderloin roast (sliced) over to the the electric utility's commissioner that helped me for him & his crew at the paint store for lunch.

wally2q · Feb 24, 2022

Flaken said:
Took a smoked pork tenderloin roast (sliced) over to the the electric utility's commissioner that helped me for him & his crew at the paint store for lunch.

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Thats the way to do it!

Now when do we get our pork tendeloin for all the support we've provided?.... i have my bbq sauce all ready!

Nuisance Lighting

Ariens93GT20

Bluegrass 82

dalek

DAVISULL

Rsm61

Flaken

John M jr

Flaken

Lane

TrakFan

Flaken

TrakFan

Flaken

Flaken

PA318Guy

Flaken

Flaken

TrakFan

Flaken

wally2q

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