My Tractor Forum banner

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I'm the average consumer. I own a number of small engine powered items used around the home at various intervals. Not all of them throughout the year.

I assume I am forced to purchase 10% ethanol fuel because I see the stickers at the pump. I also live pretty rural, it would be a major effort to seek out non ethanol fuel for purchase.

I want to hear what benefits I can expect if I purchase and use such a product.

Not the marketing fluff. I want to hear what is really going on when I add it to a jug of fuel.
 

·
Retired Super Moderator - Deceased September 2015
Joined
·
26,679 Posts
Mainly to help keeping it from absorbing/settling water.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Actually I was hoping to get someone like Bill at Starbrite to give us something beyond the marketing fluff. I want to understand what the issue is that causes a product like this to be created.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
I would personally find a non-ethanol source of fuel. I live smack dab in the middle of ethanol utopia and it is very easy to purchase non-ethanol gasoline. The stuff is nasty, harmfull to engines, and will cut your mileage a minimum of 10%. Corn is for making wiskey not gasoline.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
I would personally find a non-ethanol source of fuel. I live smack dab in the middle of ethanol utopia and it is very easy to purchase non-ethanol gasoline. The stuff is nasty, harmfull to engines, and will cut your mileage a minimum of 10%. Corn is for making wiskey not gasoline.
There are a lot of rumors about gasoline and ethanol free gasoline. I did a simple test to see if the premium gas that I bought has ethanol in it. It did.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
484 Posts
Here in the frozen North, we have lots of woods, lakes, and boats.
I can tell you with a bunch of experience with both 2 and 4 stroke, new or old outboards DON'T like ethanol.......... Period.......... BAD....NASTY....Stuff. I have experience with a fleet of about 20 boats and pontoons.

All my other small 4 stroke motors seem OK with E10, surprisingly.

In cars and trucks I use fuel water eliminator in the spring and fall. Not summer of the dead of winter.

E0 (no ethanol) is easily available here...... For the extra 10-20 cents a gallon.

I only have one off road diesel tractor, and no on road diesel vehicles.
I do run white bottle diesel additive all year.

Good luck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Let's start with what Star Tron will NOT do:

Star Tron will NOT absorb water - that's actually a bad thing. Ethanol attracts moisture. E10 gas can hold up to .5% water by volume. More than that results in phase separation. This is when water & alcohol (ethanol is alcohol) bond together. Their combined weight drags the combo out of suspension from the gas, resulting in a distinct layer of water/alcohol at the bottom of the gas tank. This is actually pretty rare. What most people complain about is the gums that are caused when E10 gets older than 30 days or so.

E10 fuel is formulated to be used in 30 days. In a car or truck, that's easy. In a boat, ATV, lawn mower, motorcycle, etc it can sit for much longer. As it ages, the light ends begin to evaporate, resulting in the gums that clog carbs, injectors and filters. Engines that used to run great suddenly are hard to start or run rough. You end up yelling at the chain saw, ATV, boat etc, but it's not the engine, it's the fuel that is causing the problem.

Star Tron won't "Neutralize" ethanol either. No treatment can do that.

What it will do is use a blend of enzymes that stabilize fuel for up to 2 years. However, unlike traditional chemical stabilizers - and we make these too, so I am not knocking anyone - Star Tron doesn't cause the engine to run smoky when you do take it out of storage. The enzymes actually allow the fuel to burn more completely. They also break apart any debris (gum, varnish, etc) that may be present in the fuel delivery system.

Star Tron does not contain any alcohol or emulsifiers. You don't want to add more alcohol to E10 - it already has too much. Emulsifiers degrade fuel quality by reducing its combustibility. The FAA considers emulsifiers to be contanminants in AvGas, forbidding their use. Star Tron's enzymes actually allow fuel hydrocarbons (the gas portion of E10) to burn more completely. This simply means engines start easy and run smooth with no smoke or carbon buildup. We make it here in the USA, too, at our factory in Montgomery, Alabama. It does good things to E10 fuel as well as to 100% real gas and there is a diesel fuel version, too.

Enzymes have been used by the fuel refiners for 40+ years to stabilize and improve the quality of fuel. We just are the first to bring this technology to the consumer. It's not magic, it's not new, it's not snake oil. It's applied science that works.

btw, the Sumerians first experimented with enzymes to brew beer - if it is good for beer, it's gotta be good for your ATV :) :trink39:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
Great explanation...

I just wish the government would quit shoving that cr#p (ethanol) down everyone's throat. Luckily, here in SD it is very easy to purchase non-ethanol gas although it is 10 to 20 cents higher per gallon which I gladly pay.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
I've heard a lot of stories about ethanol in gasoline. Damage to
engines, especially small engines, marine engines, poor fuel economy,
etc. The FAA even recommends experimental aircraft not to use it. Just because there is no ethanol sticker on the pump dosen't mean that there is no ethanol in the gasoline!

I decided to do a simple test, then a more precise test to find out if
any, and how much ethanol is in gasoline. I bought a few gallons of
high grade gas, because I heard that there was no ethanol in the premium
blends. There was about 8% ethanol in the premium gas.

The simple test is to put some water in a clear container. Mark the
water line with a felt marker or a piece of tape. Put some gasoline in
the container, then mix the two liquids. Wait a minute or two and check
the mark that you made. If there is more water than before, then there
is ethanol in the gasoline.

I have attached two files. They have the same information in them. The
files explain a more detailed method to determine the percent ethanol in
gasoline. One is a pdf and the other is a plain text file, which you
can easily edit if you want.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
I've heard a lot of stories about ethanol in gasoline. Damage to
engines, especially small engines, marine engines, poor fuel economy,
etc. The FAA even recommends experimental aircraft not to use it. Just because there is no ethanol sticker on the pump dosen't mean that there is no ethanol in the gasoline!

I decided to do a simple test, then a more precise test to find out if
any, and how much ethanol is in gasoline. I bought a few gallons of
high grade gas, because I heard that there was no ethanol in the premium
blends. There was about 8% ethanol in the premium gas.

The simple test is to put some water in a clear container. Mark the
water line with a felt marker or a piece of tape. Put some gasoline in
the container, then mix the two liquids. Wait a minute or two and check
the mark that you made. If there is more water than before, then there
is ethanol in the gasoline.

I have attached two files. They have the same information in them. The
files explain a more detailed method to determine the percent ethanol in
gasoline. One is a pdf and the other is a plain text file, which you
can easily edit if you want.
I think you have it backwards...the water level will decrease as the ethanol absorbs somes of the water whereas straight gasoline there will be no absorption or change in the water level.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,535 Posts
Does anyone remember Heat the stuff in little yellow bottles that many people used in the winter to keep there fuel lines from freezing up?I remember it being sold by the case at places like Farm&Fleet and the local gas stations had it and people use to add it to there tanks at fill ups.It was very popular around here in the winter months.

It was a alchohol product made from good old corn and us farmers liked it.People bought it to absorb dry the water in fuel to prevent icing frozen fuel lines.When was the last time you seen it or bought it?Since E-10 ethanol gas?More then likley not in several years.Why because its no longer needed with E-10 ethenol fuel.Because its already in the tank.Ethanol or Heat both absorb water it does not suck in water and turn your gas to water.

Just another Ethanol Myth that needed to be adressed.:thThumbsU
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
"I think you have it backwards...the water level will decrease as the ethanol absorbs somes of the water whereas straight gasoline there will be no absorption or change in the water level."

Give it a try. Nothing is precise in the simple test. The test is based on the old saying "oil and water do not mix". The ethanol is water based. The ethanol and water mix, and the "water" volume increases. If there is no increase in the water level, then there is no ethanol in the gas.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
Does anyone remember Heat the stuff in little yellow bottles that many people used in the winter to keep there fuel lines from freezing up?I remember it being sold by the case at places like Farm&Fleet and the local gas stations had it and people use to add it to there tanks at fill ups.It was very popular around here in the winter months.

It was a alchohol product made from good old corn and us farmers liked it.People bought it to absorb dry the water in fuel to prevent icing frozen fuel lines.When was the last time you seen it or bought it?Since E-10 ethanol gas?More then likley not in several years.Why because its no longer needed with E-10 ethenol fuel.Because its already in the tank.Ethanol or Heat both absorb water it does not suck in water and turn your gas to water.

Just another Ethanol Myth that needed to be adressed.:thThumbsU
Heat was made from Methanol using good old wood.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
"I think you have it backwards...the water level will decrease as the ethanol absorbs somes of the water whereas straight gasoline there will be no absorption or change in the water level."

Give it a try. Nothing is precise in the simple test. The test is based on the old saying "oil and water do not mix". The ethanol is water based. The ethanol and water mix, and the "water" volume increases. If there is no increase in the water level, then there is no ethanol in the gas.
I was wrong and you were correct...still hard to get it right in my head. The water level will increase due to the presense of ethanol. Sorry to any fellow posters of my inaccurate statement.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Here's two rules of thumb I remember from high school chemistry:

1) If the name ends in "-ol" it's an alcohol or an alcohol cousin.

2) Alcohol does not absorb water; it bonds with it to form an emulsion.


That is far different from removing it or making it burn. Emulsions degrade the combustibility of the material. This leads to carbon deposits and reduced engine performance.
 

·
Jack of All Trades
Joined
·
1,337 Posts
Star Tron is the ONLY fuel additive we stock because we believe in it. I use it in my personal fuel, as well as any fuel we put in customers equipment. I also try to keep some shooters around to hand out as samples. Thanks for the simplified explanation Bill, I think it does a better job than the sell sheet. I am going to print it out and hang it by the display.
 

·
Old Iron 1%er
Joined
·
873 Posts
Does anyone remember Heat the stuff in little yellow bottles that many people used in the winter to keep there fuel lines from freezing up?I remember it being sold by the case at places like Farm&Fleet and the local gas stations had it and people use to add it to there tanks at fill ups.It was very popular around here in the winter months.

It was a alchohol product made from good old corn and us farmers liked it.People bought it to absorb dry the water in fuel to prevent icing frozen fuel lines.When was the last time you seen it or bought it?Since E-10 ethanol gas?More then likley not in several years.Why because its no longer needed with E-10 ethenol fuel.Because its already in the tank.Ethanol or Heat both absorb water it does not suck in water and turn your gas to water.

Just another Ethanol Myth that needed to be adressed.:thThumbsU
let that ethanol+gasoline sit too long and it keeps absorbing water to the point where it really doesn't want to burn. It makes carbs super gunky as well that sit for a long period of time. If it's used quickly it doesn't gunk up the carbs and such. Never had an issue with plain ol fuel line with it, but lots of others have.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,842 Posts
Since the advent of evaporation control systems on cars, the need for Heet (tm) or other additives has pretty much gone away.

I resolved all of my E10 issues by running AVGAS.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
So Bill says 30 days for Ethanol blended gas, what could I expect if I got my hands on AV Gas?
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top