My Tractor Forum banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,028 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I have a few photos to share of what gear end play looks like between good parts and 'worn' parts in Kohler High/Low planet carrier assembly.

Double click a photo for a close up.

003.jpg

004.jpg

005.jpg

The rebuilt carrier has all new bushings, pins, and shoulder bolts but old used gears, the 'fair' looking ring gear; well, I do not think it is so fair at all.

But imagine if you will, "what if the bushings in the gears, the shoulder bolts and pins were also worn?'

Be very careful what you buy on eBay.

Roger,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,711 Posts
Excellent illustration, Roger. Although I will add that I have seen much, much worse wear on ring gears. Almost all ring gears will exhibit some pattern of wear -- even those with only a hundred or so hours -- but the difference is you have to look very closely even to spot it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
98 Posts
Thanks for the info, definitely useful when buying used parts. I also saw what I am assuming were your videos on Youtube illustrating the Gravely transmissions and how they work. They were very helpful tutorials, I have a much better idea of what is going on in the transmission now
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,842 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
795 Posts
If you consider that worn, please send me all the ones you reject like that. I have seen some ten times worse still working like a fine tuned clock. That ring will outlast you! C.V.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,842 Posts
Here is a short video I took that shows the noise that a worn hi-low planetary can make.

http://rich.homeunix.com:443/gravely/5665-2/HPIM4391.AVI

I could not operate the tractor at all with that sort of racket going on. I had to either fix it or sell it. I opted to fix it. A new ring gear, new orbit gears and new pins and bushings resolved the issue.

This particular tractor spent it's entire life mowing with a 50" deck on the front. That sort of constant load is going to wear stuff out. The engine finally broke a rod.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,711 Posts
I will grudgingly admit that even through the extremely low quality of that video, it is among the worst planetary whines I've ever heard -- if not the worst. How did the orbit gears actually look -- were they pretty well cooked? I imagine they must have been (and the ring gears) to whine that loud.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,028 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
If you consider that worn, please send me all the ones you reject like that. I have seen some ten times worse still working like a fine tuned clock. That ring will outlast you! C.V.

Oh I will use that ring gear, I just would never try to pass it off as a good used gear. A new rear ring gear sells for about $156. now, and the front ring gear goes for about $163. The shoulder bolts on the planet carrier assembly now go for $55.43 ea. and the pins are much cheaper at $18.91 ea.

The price of the shoulder bolts is crazy and I have managed to make a good useable sub for far less.

Roger,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,711 Posts
Depends on what you mean by "good used," which is why with the Gravely crowd, I always need to be very careful with my pictures and item descriptions. In a sense, it is good used - and the price (probably $20 or so on Ebay) is reflective of that. If anything, the real bargain is when I sell a "mint" or "like-mint" hi/low planetary set for $150 - $200 --- the regular sets bring $100, so when you get a nice one for just a premium of $50, you're stealing it. Funny that the $100 sets sell so much faster even though the more expensive ones are in better condition.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,727 Posts
Everybody has their own idea of what's acceptable when it comes to planetary gear systems. From my perspective, if I'm looking at a full-fledged restoration (show tractor, GTCOA auction tractor, etc.), than the prospect of changing out the gears with new/like new is on the table. I won't pay $150-200 for a used set, no matter the purported quality - if I'm going to spend that amount of jing, I'll be on the phone to Richard. I've done fairly well with the 3 transmission sets (or so) I've purchased - none for over $50. Certainly not perfect, but they struck a balance between cost and quality.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,842 Posts
I will grudgingly admit that even through the extremely low quality of that video, it is among the worst planetary whines I've ever heard -- if not the worst. How did the orbit gears actually look -- were they pretty well cooked? I imagine they must have been (and the ring gears) to whine that loud.
They actually didn't look that bad until they were compared to new ones. That is when the wear became apparent.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,711 Posts
Everybody has their own idea of what's acceptable when it comes to planetary gear systems. From my perspective, if I'm looking at a full-fledged restoration (show tractor, GTCOA auction tractor, etc.), than the prospect of changing out the gears with new/like new is on the table. I won't pay $150-200 for a used set, no matter the purported quality - if I'm going to spend that amount of jing, I'll be on the phone to Richard. I've done fairly well with the 3 transmission sets (or so) I've purchased - none for over $50. Certainly not perfect, but they struck a balance between cost and quality.
Fair enough, but you do realize a set from Richard's (Gravely) is $600+, right? And last I checked, they charge over $300 for a "good used" set.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,711 Posts
They actually didn't look that bad until they were compared to new ones. That is when the wear became apparent.
That's usually the case with straight-cut gears in my experience. Especially with Gravely stuff, from my perspective it's just not worth changing them out until they fail (or they annoy you as much as your whining ones did.)

As Kip pointed out, you can buy sets on Ebay relatively cheap sometimes -- granted, you're taking a risk, but it is what it is. If you're willing to keep an eye on Ebay every day/week and grab the good deals in anticipation of needing those parts some day, more power to you.

I'd prefer the comfort of knowing someone like me has actually checked out the planetaries before selling them, but it does come at a (slightly) higher price.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,727 Posts
Fair enough, but you do realize a set from Richard's (Gravely) is $600+, right? And last I checked, they charge over $300 for a "good used" set.
Yes I am aware of their pricing and that's the direction I would go for a near-new purchase. Though I am not in the market for any sets at the moment, particularly ones costing as much as what I can purchase a good used Pro series tractor for. It's really not that difficult to locate a decent used planetary gear set, have it shipped to you - and be looking at less than a $100 price tag. Getting into the semantics of what's a better used planetary set than another gets very subjective. Simply ask lots of questions, receive lots of pictures and deal with a seller you have confidence in.
 

·
I have G.A.S.
Joined
·
1,567 Posts
Anyone have any tips on extending the life of the hi/lo assembly?
I have a nice PRO-16 that I take good care of but I work it pretty hard. I do a lot of heavy brush hogging, rotary plowing, stump grinding & trenching. The largest deck I have for it is a 36" MMM. I'd love a 50" for it.
It's starting to sing a good bit under load. I change the oil every spring (straight conventional 40w), there is always a surprising amount of silver in it. I engage & disengage the PTO at idle, I always let it idle & cool down a few minutes before I shut it off. What are ya'll's preferred oils?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
476 Posts
That question is almost like discussing politics but I'll put on my flame retardant coveralls and tell. I use the oil that companies like Mercedes, Porsche and other high end cars get at the factories they are made in. Mobil 1, I like 15-50 in my air cooled engines. Yes its over 8.00 dollars a quart but run it a season and look at it at the end....its cheaper than new engines...I used it in the tranny of my 5260 in 2004 and didn't drain it until now. And No, I'm not a paid spokesperson!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,727 Posts
Anyone have any tips on extending the life of the hi/lo assembly?
I have a nice PRO-16 that I take good care of but I work it pretty hard. I do a lot of heavy brush hogging, rotary plowing, stump grinding & trenching. The largest deck I have for it is a 36" MMM. I'd love a 50" for it.
It's starting to sing a good bit under load. I change the oil every spring (straight conventional 40w), there is always a surprising amount of silver in it. I engage & disengage the PTO at idle, I always let it idle & cool down a few minutes before I shut it off. What are ya'll's preferred oils?
Sounds like you're doing everything correctly. Obviously Gravely backed away years ago from recommending gearl oil weight in the transmissions. And I don't have any experience mixing those two viscosity's together...although a quick google search indicated the practice was acceptable. You probably do have some limited gear wear from working your machine to the extent you do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
450 Posts
The hi/low set is constantly being driven by the engine gear. The single cylinder engine is delivering a low frequency high magnitude torque into the orbit gears. When the piston comes up on compression BANG. The engine gear leans...no.. Slams into the orbits after all the slack in the mesh clearances and bushing clearance and all the rest, is taken up. Than the exhaust valve opens. The engine gear is no longer leaning into the orbits. Even though the clutch is always dragging a little, it's not enough because the pistons coming back up on compression again and the mesh and all the clearances are being back hauled. The non driving side of the engine gear probably gets to kiss the non driven side of the orbit gears for a split second until the spark plug fires again. This is happening while you are idling the motor with the hi/low in neutral. I think the ride back to the shed is good enough to cool it down when your done working the machine. Park it and shut it off ASAP to extend the life of your gears. But it will probably still chew itself apart by design. Do you guys find there to be different wear patterns, or less wear on twin cylinder tractors?
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top