[bobbybats]

I was reading Bolens Kids nice score on the loader/Backhoe combo and was wondering which Large frame rear end is stronger. I know the HT-20 has a bull gear that people worry about breaking. I know the 1886 is a different design. I don't know if the HT-23 is different still or is same as 20 with two speeds?

I have an 1886-01 that I aspire to add loader/backhoe to and was wondering if the rear end will survive or if the HT-20 is substantialy stronger?

I know the Ht20 and 23 have extended fram rails that may or may not be needed for backhoe mounting? I can weld on extentions if need be so not an issue for me. Does any one know if that is true?

I am not concerned witht he HP difference either. I don't think 5 hp will make a huge difference.

So which is a stronger rear end 1886, Ht-20, or Ht-23? What says the hive?

 

[trx430ex]

HT is stronger, more modern design.

About the bull gear, were not really afraid of breaking it, as it is a very strong casting, it is that it likes to sneak up on us and throw chips into the hydro, which is a lot more expensive to fix.

The 23 is the same as the 18 or 20 with one difference, the 23 is the top of the line with a different gear component on the top rack in the rear that makes it a two speed rear. Nice feature, and a selling point for dealers talking the customer into an upgrade.

 

[BOLENSBOY60]

trx430- you may get a few people that would beg to differ- from my experience- i feel the finest hydro- rear end unit ever built is the bolens trans with the eaton 12- but along with that opinion- part of it is the fact i can have an eaton repaired realitivly easily- and with the sunstrand- your talkin` big bucks- plus you can find eatons around-sunstands are like finding hens teeth- if you need one although they are both very fine peices of equipment

 

[Deerlope]

I have a Durtrac DGT1700 with a 2 speed rear. Having a 2 speed in a tractor that size makes as much sense as having a screen door in a submarine. That 2 speed in my opinion was added as a sale gimmick. A hydro will give you all the speeds you will ever need.Just my 2 cents

 

[ed-nh]

I think the Eaton 12 in the 1886 was a very strong hydro. It has a bypass in it so it may act like it is not as strong. The Eaton 11 in the others is a great hydro for sure. I love the response I get from the Eaton 11 hydros.

 

[bolens_kid]

My favorite is the Eaton 12 in the 1886, then the Eaton 11 in the HT23, then the Sunstrand 15 hydro pump in the HT20. If you just llok at the size of each pump you can tell its a big difference. The Eaton 12 is huge, the Eaton 11 is a bit smaller, then the HT20 is a little smaller and it has not fins on it for cooling. I do like having a transmission cooler on my HT23 for extra protection.

 

[bobbybats]

I guess they all have their pros and cons. I like the idea of the Eaton 12 bypass on my 1886. I would think if you are really beating on it, the pump will bypass before internal damage occurs. Does the bypass handicap the eaton 12 in reference to the others? That is, does it cut out in power way before the other pumps? I generally loose traction before the rear end gives out. Although I think it may have bypasses once when I was pulling a tree out. :greendr just laughed to myself thinking of a guy with a Home Depot "tractor" trying to do that)

Now just for kicks how do you increase this bypass? Is it as simple as tightening an internal bolt or we talking major "surgery"?

 

[welchala]

Deerlope,

That raises the question, what does the 2 speed rearend do? How does it work to use the 2 speeds if it's attached to the hydro?
That's the same as in the HT-23's?

 

[Cam-Shaft]

Deerlope,

That raises the question, what does the 2 speed rearend do? How does it work to use the 2 speeds if it's attached to the hydro?
That's the same as in the HT-23's?

The two speed (correct me if I'm wrong) gives you two ranges of power. A slower, stronger speed for heavier work that allows the hydro to be spinning quicker thus exerting less stress on it and a faster speed for tasks like mowing that allows a quicker ground speed, but puts more load on the hydro itself

 

[TUDOR]

I have a Durtrac DGT1700 with a 2 speed rear. Having a 2 speed in a tractor that size makes as much sense as having a screen door in a submarine. That 2 speed in my opinion was added as a sale gimmick. A hydro will give you all the speeds you will ever need.Just my 2 cents

Umm. Did you ever try to pull a heavy load from start in 3rd gear in your truck?

Same thing with a hydro tractor with 2 speeds. Heavy loads or high speed, you have a choice of capabilities.

 

[gburnett]

Simplicity Power Max tractors have a hydro and a 3 speed transmission.Tractors that are made to work and pull hard need lower gears even with a hydro and my complaint with some of the two speeds is there isn't enough difference in the speeds.My GTX 20 has a great 2 speed the
low side is very low and is great for hard pulling makes it much easier on the hydro.

 

[Deerlope]

Deerlope,

That raises the question, what does the 2 speed rearend do? How does it work to use the 2 speeds if it's attached to the hydro?
That's the same as in the HT-23's?

I am not totally sure how to answer your question so I will just let it ride for now.

 

[Cam-Shaft]

Deerlope,

That raises the question, what does the 2 speed rearend do? How does it work to use the 2 speeds if it's attached to the hydro?
That's the same as in the HT-23's?

A more simple answer would be that the Hydro offers infinite speeds which makes a two speed rear seem unnecessary... BUT, the two speed is for changing the torque to the ground, the loss of speed is a byproduct.

 

[welchala]

Those sound like good answers to me.

As a friend use to say, "Arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling with a pig, everybody gets dirty and the pig just loves it"

 

[Deerlope]

A more simple answer would be that the Hydro offers infinite speeds which makes a two speed rear seem unnecessary... BUT, the two speed is for changing the torque to the ground, the loss of speed is a byproduct.

Thanks Cam, basicly what I wanted to say but didn't know how to go about it.

 

[gburnett]

Garden tractor has a two speed rear for the same reason an automatic transmission in a car has different gears,try driving with the car only having 'Drive' you'll burn up the transmission in a hurry even though you in theory have infinite numbers of speeds.

 

[bolens_kid]

Garden tractor has a two speed rear for the same reason an automatic transmission in a car has different gears,try driving with the car only having 'Drive' you'll burn up the transmission in a hurry even though you in theory have infinite numbers of speeds.

That is a very good point. Alos like in a my dad's standard '80 Dumptruck, there is a granny gear for pushing and pulling and 3 other speeds for drving reguraly. Same idea. There needs to be a gear for what you are doing.

 

[bobbybats]

So do you guys think running a backhoe and loader on an Eaton 12 is a recipe for disaster? Or will the by pass keep me from breaking some thing?

Any thoughts on increasing the bypass threshold?

 

[TUDOR]

I'm curious as to what you mean by "running a backhoe and loader on an Eaton 12"? I looked for some specs on that hydro and drew a blank.

From what I have gathered, it's a hydrostatic drive transmission with similar capabilities to the Eaton 11 and is used to move a tractor and implements through the use of a separate final drive (rear end), and for supplying hydraulic lift for those implements. It doesn't carry any weight in its own right. That is done by the rear end. As far as I know, it doesn't have sufficient flow capability to support either a FEL or a back hoe, and the rear end would be taxed for reservoir capacity with that many large cylinders. That requires an auxilliary hydraulic system with its own separate reservoir.

As far as moving that much weight down the road, not a problem.

 

[bobbybats]

Correct I ment the latter. Moving that much weight down the road.

I sort of figured as much but am always willing to listen to others experiences. Now anybody selling a FEL and hoe cheap? haha