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Old as Sin
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it loads, it just takes about 10 freaking minutes!

in a nutshell the guy said he normally uses carb cleaner to clean off metal before welding. he was out of his normal stuff so he used brake disc cleaner. his welder and the gas from it mixed with the cleaner formed a hazzardous gas messed him up severly. definitely an eye opener.
 

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This article has been "making the rounds." There's LOTS of chemicals that get downright dangerous when run through a combustion situation. I used to maintain HVAC/ refrigeration, and places like print/ photo shops, body shops, beauty shops, dryclean/ laundramats, etc, are VERY hard on heat exchangers, especially the older units not using "outside combustion" air.

The heater ingests the chemical laden air, the combustion process produces nasty stuff, and corrodes the heat exchanger.

Ditto for AC units. The air CONDENSES on the evap unit, and corrodes the you know what out of them.
 

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Old as Sin
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Discussion Starter #9
it uploads , even on dsl it takes a long time , it's to large a pdf file to load , i don't know of any other to get it on here . maybe someone smarter can help .


shd
 

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Collector of many tractors
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Also watch if you use a Jet portable heater... They will pull in paint fumes or what ever and really mess you up...
 

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Branded for LIFE !!!
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Also watch if you use a Jet portable heater... They will pull in paint fumes or what ever and really mess you up...
but you won't know untill you get to real 0xegen...B,:trink40:
 

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I hope that reposting it as text is not a copyright infringement. If it is, a mod can delete it.

"Common Cleaners Can Turn Into Poison Gas"

American Iron Magazine, August 2009

Safety Alert by Brew Dude

Yep, I thought I was a goner this time! How simple it was to get in trouble. After seeing and reading so many warning labels, we tend to no longer pay them any heed. We buy chemicals and sprays at a local parts store and think "How can this be so bad, health-wise, if I'm buying it over the counter?" Here's how a small whiff of smoke almost dropped me where I stood.

I had a rush job to do welding four diesel fuel tanks. I had to patch where they were pitted by road salt corrosion. Normally, I spray a little carb cleaner on the spot I'm going to weld, wipe it off, and then preheat the area with an acetylene torch to get rid of any solvents. Where I normally get carb cleaner was sold out, so I got a can of brake cleaner and went through my regular routine. To be on the safe side, I even had the shop door open and the exhaust fan on.

I started TIG-welding on Thursday afternoon and had no problem at first. But when I started welding across a really pitted area, I found a couple of drops of cleaner that were lurking in a deep dimple. As I came close to the cleaner, a small puff of white smoke popped up, and I almost passed out. I made it outside and sat for awhile in the fresh air. After about 10 minutes, I went to the office and sat at the computer to check the warnings on the brake cleaner can I used. That's when my whole left side started shaking for about 10 to 15 minutes. (I found out later I was having a seizure.)

When I was able to control myself again, I read the can's warning: "Vapors may decompose to harmful or fatal corrosive gases such as hydrogen chloride and possibly phosgene." After reading about hydrogen chloride, I started researching phosgene. The active chemical in the brake cleaner is tetrachloroethylene. When this chemical is exposed to excessive heat and the gas argon, which is used in MIG and TIG welding, it produces phosgene. Phosgene gas can be fatal with a dose as little as four parts per million: basically a single small puff of smoke. Symptoms can be delayed from six to 48 hours after exposure. There is no antidote for phosgene poisoning. If you do survive, the long-term effects can be chronic bronchitis and emphysema.

My breathing still was hard a few hours later, but I felt a little better, so I didn't go to a hospital. The chlorine taste and smell in my mouth and nose were still strong. About midnight, I started coughing and my chest started hurting, but I thought that this would pass after a night's sleep. The next day (Friday), the symptoms got worse, and my kidneys started hurting, so I drank a bunch of liquids and cranberry juice. Though sometimes I felt okay, I was really in a lot of pain on and off for the next several days, as well as weak and tired. Then my urine became very dark.

By the next Monday, nine days after the poisoning, I lost all balance. I was confused and could hardly talk, so I finally went to the emergency room. My symptoms were low O2 level, sugar levels out of control, vertigo, and I was hurting badly in my entire chest. I was admitted and put into ICU. My kidneys had shut down for those first four days. My lungs were damaged, so I had to be on oxygen. I had to be on insulin to keep my sugar in check. Since there is no antidote for phosgene, all I could do was try to rest and hope I got better. After CT, MRI, EKG and EEG tests, as well as several blood tests it looked like, at least for now, there is no permanent damage. However, the MRI showed fluid in my sinuses and a buildup of fluids near my brain. The phosgene scarred my sinuses, which then became infected. The three doctors I saw said I was really lucky to make it.

After four weeks, it appears that I may have emphysema and chronic bronchitis. I'm on nasal medicine and an inhaler. My sinuses are severely scarred, and my smell nerves are damaged. I still have that awful chlorine taste and smell. I may also have pancreas damage. The insulin that I was taking had little effect on my sugar levels, so I'm now on some stronger medicines.

So why am I telling you all this? I hope to save someone from an easily avoidable severe illness or even death. The cleaning sprays commonly found in thousands of bike shops across the country can be just as dangerous if improperly used. Read the labels and warnings! Look up the chemicals you use. Just because you got away with it before, doesn't mean you won't get in trouble the next time.
 

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Red Clay Rambler
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Regarding carbon tetrachloride: don't know about combustion products for it, but I can tell you that back when we used it in the lab it was handled with full body protection- gas mask, rubber gloves and suit. It is a very potent carcinogen and was eventually outlawed from being sold.
 

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I thought that the information was valuable enough to print to take to my next welding class. It starts Aug.24.
Dave
 

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Printed it off to give to the boss who does most of the welding here and often uses spray cleaners first.
 

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Thanks for sharing this information. It is scary. I use brake cleaner a good bit as it does not leave a residue; and I have a wire welder. Really surprised I havent gotten into trouble.

I plan to print this and share with my friends.
 

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That's why they make wire brushes and pressure washers, and lastly sandblasters! I worked for a large welding facility and if you got caught cleaning with a chemical you got an un-payed vacation! What are people thinking ??
Welding is bad enough , adding chems to it ??? WOW !!:Stop:
 

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TE Writer!
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i've been welding for far to long, the smoke and grinding dust can really mess with you, even with a fan on, I don't smoked but i'm sure my lungs probly look like i do! I'm a cert. pipe welder and i do alot of stick welding, and the amout of smoke that comes off, it's like a cloud! some ppl don't think of long term effects, thats why I'm looking into a new line of work!
 

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The only thing the article lacks is advice in what brake cleaners to avoid.

The chemical at issue is tetrachloroethylene. It appears to be most common in non-flammable brake cleaners, notably "Brakleen" in the red can. I guess that makes sense of course because putting it in a flammable brake cleaner would be like a ticking time bomb. Brands that advertise as being "non-chlor" are advertising that they do not contain this chemical.

Read your labels. This is just the result of an hour or so of research and you really don't want to risk your life on the words of some internet yahoo like myself.
 

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Yeah, Im a maintainence welder , and I sure am glad for the Heads up on that.
 
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