walk behind gravely

Because they worked too well?

Seriously, that's like asking why computers nowadays are so cheesy, or why cars nowadays are so complicated that you can't fix them in your back yard, or why machine tools nowadays are made so that you have to have a degree to operate them.

Gravelys are simple, solid, get-the-job-done machines. They weren't engineered to have super duper safety features, or to be way fuel efficient, or any of the other characteristics that you get with modern lawn gear. I used to buy Honda and other modern mowers, but they broke every few years. My gravelys beat the socks off the new stuff, but I'd be hesitant to turn somebody loose on them who wasn't willing to take them on their own terms.

I have a 1928 Model A Ford. It strikes me as being very much like the gravelys. My Camry has more amenities, is more comfy to drive, quieter, gets better fuel economy etc. But the A is tough; I can take it in rough terrain, or over ugly roads, run it on fermented kumquat juice, fix it with nothing but a screwdriver and pliers. It also takes some fiddling to get it started, the brakes are wierd, shifting takes some getting used to, etc.

If somebody wanted to build a Model A today, it would be easy enough technically. But nobody would buy it for what it would cost to build, and they'd gripe about lack of "modern" features. Sadly, the same is true of the gravelys.

Well said. Somewhere I read a quote by some modern Gravely exec (whether it really was said doesn't matter to me), but the quote went that Gravely's biggest competitor was the products they already made (sic) namely the L's and C's. You really have to mistreat one to break it, or let it rot. I have two 8000 series riders (1 has the mower deck, the other has a front end loader), and one vintage '69 C-8. I used to praise the 8000's and avoid the C, but as time goes on, I find the C is more versatile (I have and use a bunch of attachments), goes where the 8000's can't and does things the 8000's never dreamed about. Now I'm not dogging the riders, but most of the time I'm running the C doing things like grading my driveway, clearing brush, thatching the lawn, tilling up fill dirt, and hauling wood and stuff with the C. Some of that brush is on an earth fill *** (try that with a rider or a ZTR).

But what JRD said about working with a walk behind is true. You can not "man handle" these beasts. You might get the job done, but it'll do one of two things to you. It'll either wear you out, or kill you. You have to work with it, the way it wants to work. Most folks now days don't get that, and that's why they started buying the more modern stuff. A smart company, like Gravely, isn't going to try to dictate what people should buy, they make things people want. So the walk behinds exited production. Sad, but inevitable.

But what JRD said about working with a walk behind is true. You can not "man handle" these beasts. You might get the job done, but it'll do one of two things to you. It'll either wear you out, or kill you. You have to work with it, the way it wants to work. Most folks now days don't get that, and that's why they started buying the more modern stuff.

I've read this a hundred times and thought I understood it...but what really drove it home was talking to an old timer about his Gravely. He asked me what the "horse" was worth. He saw the look on my face and said "you know just the horse without the attachments." It took me a minute to realize he meant the tractor alone. Later I realized that the early walk behind tractors were replaceing horses! Have you ever seen somebody do real work with a real horse? The horse dictates what you do and how you do it, you guide it, but in the end the horse sort of does it his way. You make the horse angry your going to get bit or kicked or he'll just stop. You don't push a horse or try to manhandle it and you treat a Gravely walk behind the same way, your shoulders and back will apreciate it, and you'll get more done. ED

Funny, but after using GRAVELY walk behind tractors since the 50's my impression is just the opposite. IMO a defining characteristic that distinguishes these 2-wheel tractors from typical riding tractors is the very fact that they're designed to "man handle".

Error401 said:

You can not "man handle" these beasts. You might get the job done, but it'll do one of two things to you. It'll either wear you out, or kill you. You have to work with it, the way it wants to work.

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On 4 wheel tractors a man just sits there turning the wheel & pushing levers. In stark contrast, for a man to operate a 2-wheel tractor requires the man to stand, walk & "man handle" it. A man's feet & legs steer it directly thru the man's arms & hands via the GRAVELY's handle bars. IMO every GRAVELY is an inanimate object that never "wants to work"-they have no agenda & are incapable of "wants". Even mowing w/a sulky requires the strength of a man to handle the most fundamental job-to physically steer.

I've plowed a lot of snow behind GRAVELY 2-wheel tractors & can assure readers that you must "man handle" these machines if you want to remove snow. Its your body that directs the snow plow. Having the man's boots on the ground & hands on the handle bars is the only way to "get the job done". If that's not the definition of "man handle" what is?

I've also done a fair amount of rotary plowing & must warn newbees that you had better be ready to "man handle" these GRAVELY tractors if you ever expect to encounter any rocks.

Yes, there can be no doubt that operating a GRAVELY 2-wheel tractor is a work out compared to sitting on a riding tractor. The handles also present an infamous risk to the 'nads'. Plowing snow can often be more effective if the man operating the GRAVELY bears down w/the blade by pulling up on the handle bars, so as to help chisel away at compacted snow. Alternately, when busting back snow banks, a man's weight on the handles will lift the blade & either break away frozen heaps or throw new snow over the top. No hydraulics here, you must "man handle". The notoriously physical nature of operating a 2-wheel GRAVELY is an integral part of their utility, right down to the man at the handles adding traction by using his weight, or getting unstuck by using his back.

IMO "most folks" are lazy, perferring to sit & ride, push buttons & avoid man handling anything. They "started buying the more modern stuff" b/c "more modern stuff" that was also much cheaper, flooded the market. GRAVELY was at a disadvantage specifically b/c it was designed to be man handled, requiring it to run at walk behind speed. Almost all the "more modern stuff" moved significantly faster than walk behind speed, thus covering more lawn in less time.

eveled said:

You have to work with it, the way it wants to work. Most folks now days don't get that, and that's why they started buying the more modern stuff.

The horse dictates what you do and how you do it, you guide it, but in the end the horse sort of does it his way. You make the horse angry your going to get bit or kicked or he'll just stop. You don't push a horse or try to manhandle it and you treat a Gravely walk behind the same way, your shoulders and back will apreciate it, and you'll get more done.

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Having grown up on a farm that still had mules & worked on several horse farms, I get the impression you're not familiar w/horses. "Most folks now days" have never even ridden a horse. Horses were successfully domesticated b/c they're compliant, easily trained & very responsive to many forms of man handling. Perhaps "The horse dictates what you do" & runs away w/you, but my experience has been with horses that have been trained & learned that the horseman "dictates what (they) do". The domestication & training of horses is the direct result of man handling. Without substantial man handling horses remain wild & you'll get NO work done at all. Man handles horses w/training from birth, reins, bits, saddles, girths, grooming, using legs to squeeze the horses ribs, heals to punch at the flanks, hands to pat the neck, voice commands, whips & spurs, etc.

For instance, horses only very rarely jump on their own. Jumpers must be trained to jump & jumping is dictated by the rider. Anyone who's ever loaded a reluctant horse on a trailer will quickly set you straight about whether or not you can "push a horse". I've had a gift for cajoling rebellious horses into trailers. Some horses are more likely to bite or kick than others, most bites stem from rowdy 'horse' play. Horsemen recognize if a horse is "angry" when the horse mostly wants to just run away. If a "horse sort of does it his way" for too long, messing up & refusing to obey, it might get man handled to the 'glue factory'.

IMO "operating it normally" will naturally include "trying to force it to do something" for most owners. Something like an exceptional Winter storm, hurricane washing out the driveway, or wild hair for clearing the back 40 is all it takes to end up "trying to force it to do something".

Error401 said:

there is a difference between a man handling a two wheeler (operating it normally), and "man handling" it (as in trying to force it to do something).

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I think everybody can understand my point; that the "walk behind gravely" BY DESIGN relies on "man handling" to accomplish any task, in the most fundamental sense. Makes no difference if its an easy task or "trying" a seemingly impossible task. To operate at all requires a man standing/walking & controlling the handles, regardless of the level of exertion or success.

Sorry, if my alternate opinion upsets you.

Your "alternate opinion" doesn't "upset" me, your overuse of quotes of what people write irritates me. It's getting to the point that if I see a post of yours, this is what I see in my mind:



No offense, but it does get irritating.

(now where's that ignore function?)

Error401 said:

It's getting to the point that if I see a post of yours, this is what I see in my mind...



(now where's that ignore function?)

Click to expand...

Here you go...

CLICK

Error401 said:

Your "alternate opinion" doesn't "upset" me, your overuse of quotes of what people write irritates me. It's getting to the point that if I see a post of yours, this is what I see in my mind:

No offense, but it does get irritating.

(now where's that ignore function?)

Click to expand...

:sidelaugh

For the record, "man handle" does not mean "a man handling the machine," it means treating something roughly or abusively. I think the point here is that you cannot be rough and toss around the Gravely walk behind. For instance, I had a small 22" push mower with a little belt driven rear drive that I regularly used to "man handle." I often mowed extreme slopes, went places it was not designed to go. The carb would often flood with oil from these angles, sometimes the mower would tip over or fall sideways. You can't do that with a Gravely, because it'll take you with it. You have to respect the limits of the machine. Just like an old dozer vs. a new one.