My Tractor Forum banner
  • Are you passionate about Tractors? Would you like to write about topics that interest you and get paid for it? Read all about it here!
1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
215 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey dere;

Had no responses to my post of days back, so am trying again:

Tonight I was finishing up blowing out a neighbors drive with the 3416 H, had the lights on (12 AMPS total), then had to reverse quickly, the GEN light come on and stayed on. . Belt is good and con't see any wires that fell off. Put on a rebuilt regulator a couple months ago , it and the Gennerator?starter were working fine till this.
Any ideas?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,939 Posts
If the Gen is belt driven, the amps are near max, and a high load on the belt.

Blowing snow "wets" the belt, making the belt less capable of handling max load.

2 strikes, you are out, of juice!!
 

·
What happened?
Joined
·
638 Posts
12 Amps for lights???

What's the current draw with the lights off. What's the max load for the generator?

Are you sure you aren't overloading things??

It could also be a poor ground.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
215 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hey homesteader;

I was looking for a weak link, and turns out the generator puts out solid 2 volts about idle, and now got to find another USA made regulator, 3 pole. The one I got was a rebuilt one I got last August, but now after hardly being used, it is giving me the fits.

Thanks a lot for the material.

all the best
If the belt isn't slipping and the wiring is good see Section 3, page 3-19, (Generator Warning Lamp) of this Manual. Also see page 3-24 (Battery Will Not Charge).
 

·
4K Poster!!!
Joined
·
4,504 Posts
The brushes are probably stuck (in the generator). Pull the end cap off and check the brushes and commutator.
If the starter function works well, then ignore the above statement.
 

·
Tractor Nerd
Joined
·
3,241 Posts
Generators and alternators are different. Alternator has a regulator to regulate it's voltage. Because of this it can create the same amount of amps and voltage idling or full throttle.

Generators are regulated by rpms. The more revolutions the more amps & volts. On idle, there is going to be very little generated if none at all. While full rpm is going to show you it's max output. This is a good reason why if you blow snow or mow lawn with lights or something that draws juice to run it at the higher rpms. There will always be a little lost from the generator just from engine ignition such as coil and points.
 

·
What happened?
Joined
·
638 Posts
To add to Justy's comment.

The starter generator has TWO fields in it. One is used during the motor function when power is applied, (starter) and the other IS an alternator function. The voltage regulator "cleans up" the output and charges the battery as needed. To inspect the actual voltage output on the S/G, you need to have the voltmeter set to AC volts.

If the charging input is 10 amps, and the lights draw 12, then you will be slowly discharging the battery.

Unless it is a battery powered ignition, the coil and the points are not part of the electrical charging/discharging of the battery.

The armature (coil) on a Briggs engine is excited by the magnet on the flywheel.

Inspect your voltage regulator input, AC volts, and output, DC volts at both idle, and WOT and note the difference in the voltages.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
160 Posts
To add to Justy's comment.

To inspect the actual voltage output on the S/G, you need to have the voltmeter set to AC volts.

Inspect your voltage regulator input, AC volts, and output, DC volts at both idle, and WOT and note the difference in the voltages.
I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with you on that one. Output of S/G is DC volts and the voltage regulator is not a rectifier.

Link: Alternator and Generator Theory
 

·
Tractor Nerd
Joined
·
3,241 Posts
A rectifier in a alternator is to convert ac to dc. Without that it would be ac current. This is why it's easy to convert a alternator into a mobile power station or generator to power ac items such as a drill and such.

But back to the subject. First the poster needs to take a voltage meter and with the engine full rpm get some reading. Amps, & volts.

Next they need to look at the watts on the lights. Remember it's not the cardboard box or something that determines the amount of amps it takes. Maybe if they new then yes. If someone else had the lights could have changed the bulbs. Making it possibly higher then 12 amps. 12 amps = 144 watts. 6 amps = 72 watts. A set of walmart 55 watt fog lights comes to 4.6 amps per bulb. Or a pair would be 9.2 amps.

But anyways, The light should not be more then the generator output. If the generator is only 14 amps. Then 12 amp lights should be ok, as long it's not ran at low idle for extended period of time or the battery will go dead.

If the generator puts out 10 amps. And lights use 12 amps. You'll need to replace the bulbs with a lower of ampere set of bulbs to meet within your guidelines.

Also, I run lights on own my garden tractor on dark mornings. To help out a bit when I'm done and park it. Throw the maintainer on it. Charge the battery up for next time and keep the battery a little healthier. But also keep eye on the battery water. Between the lights discharging the battery and recharging the battery with maintainer or generator, eventually water is lost through evaporation.
 

·
What happened?
Joined
·
638 Posts
Homesteader,

I stand humbly corrected, somewhat.

The following paragraph is from your link. I forgot about the function of the commutator inside the starter/generator.

The current generated in the armature is AC - not DC. To get it converted to DC so it can charge your batter and run your headlights, a device called a commutator is used to "rectify" this situation. It is on the armature and has a series of contacts along it's outer surface. Two spring-loaded brushes slide on the commutator - one brush is connected to ground and the other is connected to the main output of the generator. As the armature and commutator assembly rotates, the brushes come touch the different contacts on the commutator such that the polarity of the current moving in the armature is always connected to the correct brushes. The net effect of this is that the generator output is always DC even though the current inside the armature windings is always AC.

I was thinking of the charging system in my Gold Wing having a regulator/rectifier. On that, there are three hot leads coming out of the alternator. They are a low voltage three phase AC.

Anyhoo, I would follow Justy's recommendations. Check the bulbs for their wattage output, and so on.

You could also run the tractor for a few minutes with the lights off to help charge the battery if it is needed...... not the most ideal way, but it works in a pinch.
 

·
Tractor Nerd
Joined
·
3,241 Posts
Good to hear Horvik! Come up with anything else down the road, post it!
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top