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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a snow blower mounted on my one Gravely that does not have a swiftomatic transmission. I also mounted a set of gear reduction wheels on it as well that I bought from Ricard in W.VA, hoping to slow the machine down enough to handle the sometimes heavy and wet snow that likes to fall in this part of Connecticut. I also thought slowing it down would improve my control over the rotary plow and any other implement that works better going slower. Well it did slow the machine down but not noticably slower than the low range on my other Gravelys that do have Swift O Matics. So undaunted, I remember reading a thread about 4 vs 6 leads and their availability plus another recent thread about a guy who's getting rich marketing used ones. So I don't know anything about these but I'd like to understand the difference, what I most likely have, are they universal in their application as far as which machines they will fit, what they do exactly, where they go and what I can expect once I've made the conversion-ie will it help move that snow instead of bogging down or just running over it. Or should I just give up and put the Gravely blower in the antique ag equipment museum?
 

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Hairy,

First understand that there are single speed differentials and two speed differentials, the latter better known as Swiftamatics.

Take a look at page 10 of this document,

http://www.oldgravelys.net/pdf/Conv_76_IPL_19720315.pdf

Page 10 shows the single speed differential.

Page 13 of that document shows the two speed differetial or Swiftamatic.

All differential worm gears, the big bronze part, are driven by steel worms, aka lead worms.

The different speeds between an L, LI, or LS were achieved by different cuts of the gears, same parts in the C, CI, and CS. You cannot convert a single speed differential to a two speed differential, but you can convert an L tractor to an L8 tractor by swapping out the single speed differential, changing the right axel housing to the special Swiftamatic, and maybe the left axel housing, plus adding the shifting linkage. There were bearing changes in that area and that may require changing both axel housings.

The Swiftamatic introduced a two speed axel or differential, and they were cut with 8 lead, 6 lead, and a very few rare 4 lead gear sets. There were several changes in the Swiftamatic itself, from a five cog shifter to a three cog shifter, the latter is stronger. And the internals were changed for the better in mid-1971, parts inside no longer wore away the inside of the bronze worm gear.

The 5000 series tractor uses a different breed of Swiftamatic, it looks the same but will not fit into a 500 series tractor or earlier tractor, and the center thrust pin no longer exists in a 5000.

If you collect a bunch of Swiftamatic parts, always look at the condition of the outside of the bronze worm gear first. When the teeth wear away, you have a nice slug of bronze scrap metal, and nothing else.

If you find a nice pre mid-1971 Swiftamatic with the internals trashed, the bronze gear can be machined out to fit the new style spider assemblies, but you still need good usable parts to rebuild with.

The problem with the pre ‘71’s is that parts of the spider pin actually rode on the inside of the bronze gear. As the inside of the gear wore away, steel on bronze, the spacing of the gears on the spider pin changed to a point where gears never designed to play together collide and that is a bad thing.

As a side note, all the Gravely powered L8's and C8's have oil pick-up screens right below the big bronze worm gear. 'Do change your oil filter often', the bronze tid-bits clog a filter.

Can you change just a simple L to and LS, yes if you can find the right worm and worm gear; and it is a complete teardown of a tractor to change the lead worm.

Roger,
 

· Gravely bug bit.
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.....

Can you change just a simple L to and LS, yes if you can find the right worm and worm gear; and it is a complete teardown of a tractor to change the lead worm.

Roger,
And take it from someone who has done it without removing the engine, it is a real pain in the you know where to do it that way. I'll never do another that way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks , this is a great start but.........

either it doesn't answer the question fully or I don't completely understand where we are going with this. I actually have a copy of the parts list that you linked for me, so I can use that as my reference.
As I explained, I set up the one tractor that I have that does not have the Swift O Matic differential in it with the gear reduction wheels. I could not use either of my other two machines that do have the Swift O Matic because of the lack of attachment points (threaded holes where the gear reduction wheels bolt on) on the Swift O Matic's axel housings.This improvement has proved to be unsatisfactory as the tractor is still moving too fast, even in low range as selected high up on the handlebars. The big tires however are pretty cool and I made a set of chains for them already.
So rather than give up I thought I'd give the lead idea a try, so maybe it would be better if I enumerated the questions I have using what I've learned from you so far,

1. What lead gear would normally come stock in an L7? This is a pretty old machine as the handles on the F/R and Range control are turned wood not plastic or rubber.
2. I assume that the six lead gear would rotate the big bronze gear faster than the four lead would and that in turn would move the tractor faster? Is that correct?
3. If that theory of mine is true, it would lead me to believe the big bronze gear is always the same. Yes/No? If no, does the lead and gear need to be acquired as a matched set?
4. What parts would I need to replace to effect the slowing down of the tractor besides the actual lead and /or big bronze gear? Could you list these the same as the part #'s shown in the document "Parts List for Gravely 7.6" that is available thru the link above at "Old Gravely's", so even I could find them?
Much obliged to you for sharing the knowledge you may have had to acquire the hard way thru trial and error.
 

· Gravelyyard.com
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1. All two wheel swiftamatics came with 8 lead gears. OK, the may have been some special order/purpose 6 leads, but they would be very rare.
2. Yes, the 6 will rotate the worm gear faster than the 4 lead.
3. No, the worm and worm gears are a matched set.
4. I'll leave that one to somebody who has actualy done that.
 

· Gravely bug bit.
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1. Normal gear for an L is 8-Lead. Wood grips says early 50s at the latest and only Ls were available.

2. 6-Leads do move faster than 4-Leads and 8-Leads move fastest.

3 Not the same but with the same number of teeth. Angle of the teeth is different in all three types.

4. You have to change both the Worm and Worm Gear. Items #34 and #91 on the IPL. http://www.oldgravelys.net/pdf/Conv_76_IPL_19720315.pdf

And now for the bad news. You will have to use either NOS parts or used parts as Gravely no longer has anything but 8-Lead parts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
By the way, ratio for the gearsets are 4:26, 6:26, and 8:26.
I got a response email from arcam and I wrote him a response but it did not appear here as I thought it would. His (I assume arcam is male) answers jive with those from Fla Don, so that's good. Further Fla Don somehow anticipated my next question, in my email response to arcam about ground speed and has listed ratios. So I assume that 4,6 or 8 divided into 26 would give me the ratio or for each time the big gear rotates once the 4 lead rotates 6.5 times. the 6 4.333 times and the 8 3.25 times. So the 4 would cut ground speed down to 1/2 of what it is with an 8 lead. How am I doing? Stop me if I'm wrong.
I love the idea of NOS, I have 2 old Volvos-1962&67 so NOS is a way of life with me. Although there is practically nothing you can't get for a vintage Volvo new.
So I know where to get parts fo the Volvos but where would I start to look for NOS gear and worm. I suppose eBay is a possibility but there may be better sources. I'd rather pay for a NOS set than a used set that might be questionable, as:howdy: it sounds like I don't want to do this twice.
 

· Gravely bug bit.
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I got a response email from arcam and I wrote him a response but it did not appear here as I thought it would. His (I assume arcam is male) answers jive with those from Fla Don, so that's good. Further Fla Don somehow anticipated my next question, in my email response to arcam about ground speed and has listed ratios. So I assume that 4,6 or 8 divided into 26 would give me the ratio or for each time the big gear rotates once the 4 lead rotates 6.5 times. the 6 4.333 times and the 8 3.25 times. So the 4 would cut ground speed down to 1/2 of what it is with an 8 lead. How am I doing? Stop me if I'm wrong.
I love the idea of NOS, I have 2 old Volvos-1962&67 so NOS is a way of life with me. Although there is practically nothing you can't get for a vintage Volvo new.
So I know where to get parts fo the Volvos but where would I start to look for NOS gear and worm. I suppose eBay is a possibility but there may be better sources. I'd rather pay for a NOS set than a used set that might be questionable, as:howdy: it sounds like I don't want to do this twice.
An L with 8-Lead is twice as fast as an LS with 4-Lead. Now if you had a set of gear reduction wheels on an L, it would move at the speeds of an LS. An L-8 with Swifty gives you the top speed of the L with the low speed of the LS without the need for the GRWs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
An L with 8-Lead is twice as fast as an LS with 4-Lead. Now if you had a set of gear reduction wheels on an L, it would move at the speeds of an LS. An L-8 with Swifty gives you the top speed of the L with the low speed of the LS without the need for the GRWs.
The GRW (gear reduction wheels) are already there!
1. What's the difference between an L and an LS? And/Or what is an LS?
2. What result would the combination of the 4 lead worm and gear plus the GWR deliver?

As I said before, with just the GWRs on the old L it seems to move at about the same speed as my Swift O Matics with the differencial in the lower/slower range. I'd almost bet that the S-O-M were Gravely's answer to eliminating the need for GRWs.
 

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(I assume arcam is male)
So far I still am. But I'm afraid if I don't stop hauling tractors home, Lindey is going to follow thru with her threats.........


That's Lindey (my wife) on the C in my avatar.
 

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The GRW (gear reduction wheels) are already there!
1. What's the difference between an L and an LS? And/Or what is an LS?
2. What result would the combination of the 4 lead worm and gear plus the GWR deliver?

As I said before, with just the GWRs on the old L it seems to move at about the same speed as my Swift O Matics with the differencial in the lower/slower range. I'd almost bet that the S-O-M were Gravely's answer to eliminating the need for GRWs.
1. An LS has the 4 lead gears, an L has the 8 lead gears.
2. A tractor that would lose a race with a glacier.

You are right, the swify was a way to cover all speeds without having take off or add on anything.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
So far I still am. But I'm afraid if I don't stop hauling tractors home, Lindey is going to follow thru with her threats.........


That's Lindey (my wife) on the L in my avatar.
She doesn't look that dangerous, but then they are the ones to look out for. Earlier this year I promised to clear off some of the herd, my 1 1/2 ton Chevy truck c1951-53, not certain of the actual age of that beauty, or our 1999 Maxima. Or anything with wheels that wasn't in use. About 1 day later a fellow spotted me in one of the Volvos and followed me into the Post Office. "hey, is that your Volvo out there" Yup "I have a really nice 1973 Mercedes 450SE in my yard, you want it" NO "for free" Well peaked my interest, because it was just down the road, had an very good body, motor and interior-so guess where it is now? And, BTW, it is an excellent car to get a night's sleep in.
 

· Old Iron Connoisseur
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OK.. lots of good info here but let me try to simplify a bit.

L = 8 Lead - High Speed Tractor
LI = 6 Lead - Mid Speed
LS = 4 Lead - Low Speed Tractor

L8 = 8 Lead in high range on the lower lever and 4 Lead in the low range on the lower lever (This is the shifter beside the fuel tank and not either of them up on the handlebars.)

L + Gear Reduction Wheels (GRW) = LS or 4 Lead
LI + GRW = Slower than LS
LS (Very Rare Tractor) + GRW = crazy slow but best at a turtle race.

If you have used GRW's on an L and think it is too fast, try to find an LI. A whole LI transmission is easier to find than swapping gears. I actually will have one for sale before too long after I get my LI going. It will need a motor but the transmission appears in good shape. If you are up for a project, there is a one individual that has put GRW on an L8 with the addition of a bracket that he built. I do not know his name or have his contact info but there was some custom building to make it work. There was quite a discussion on here and on the Yahoo! group when he did it.

Also, any of the "L" 's can be switched with a "C" and they are the same. Gravely later changed from L, LI, LS, L8 to C,CI,CS,C8. Tractor is pretty much the same thing.

Does that help clarify any???
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Gettin closer all the time

OK.. lots of good info here but let me try to simplify a bit.

L = 8 Lead - High Speed Tractor
LI = 6 Lead - Mid Speed
LS = 4 Lead - Low Speed Tractor

L8 = 8 Lead in high range on the lower lever and 4 Lead in the low range on the lower lever (This is the shifter beside the fuel tank and not either of them up on the handlebars.)

L + Gear Reduction Wheels (GRW) = LS or 4 Lead
LI + GRW = Slower than LS
LS (Very Rare Tractor) + GRW = crazy slow but best at a turtle race.

If you have used GRW's on an L and think it is too fast, try to find an LI. A whole LI transmission is easier to find than swapping gears. I actually will have one for sale before too long after I get my LI going. It will need a motor but the transmission appears in good shape. If you are up for a project, there is a one individual that has put GRW on an L8 with the addition of a bracket that he built. I do not know his name or have his contact info but there was some custom building to make it work. There was quite a discussion on here and on the Yahoo! group when he did it.

Also, any of the "L" 's can be switched with a "C" and they are the same. Gravely later changed from L, LI, LS, L8 to C,CI,CS,C8. Tractor is pretty much the same thing.

Does that help clarify any???
Yes that does help, it's actually pretty simple-which is good for me.
I have tried the snow blower on one or the other of the S-O-Ms and found that even in low range (bottom lever near gas tank, pushed forward I believe) it's still moving too fast for the kind of snow we usually experience. So the answer is either L with GWR and 6 lead or L with GWR and 4 lead. My experience in reading the posts here is that the 4 lead worms are hard to come by and maybe that alternative would prove to be too slow anyway. If you decide to part out the old LI and deem the gear set to be worthy of reuse, I'd be interested in that. The cost of the whole tranny plus the cost of shipping it all here may be prohibitive, but we could look at that too. In any case, this swap is not to be taken lightly.
Maybe I could get some feed back as to the issue of L+4+GWR vs L+6+GWR-pros cons, which is more practical etc.:howdy:
 

· Gravely Model L Guy
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There are videos on YouTube of an LS with GRWs. They are pretty slow. I'd guess an LI with GRW would be a winner.
I am with Jimmy on this one. The LI with GRWs is a much more practical setup.
 

· Gravely bug bit.
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Re: Gettin closer all the time

Yes that does help, it's actually pretty simple-which is good for me.
I have tried the snow blower on one or the other of the S-O-Ms and found that even in low range (bottom lever near gas tank, pushed forward I believe) it's still moving too fast for the kind of snow we usually experience. So the answer is either L with GWR and 6 lead or L with GWR and 4 lead. My experience in reading the posts here is that the 4 lead worms are hard to come by and maybe that alternative would prove to be too slow anyway. If you decide to part out the old LI and deem the gear set to be worthy of reuse, I'd be interested in that. The cost of the whole tranny plus the cost of shipping it all here may be prohibitive, but we could look at that too. In any case, this swap is not to be taken lightly.
Maybe I could get some feed back as to the issue of L+4+GWR vs L+6+GWR-pros cons, which is more practical etc.:howdy:
How bored do you want to get. Doing any mowing with an LS is painful. Doing it with a LS and GRWs would put you to sleep. The LI isn't bad to mow with. Mowing with a LI and GRWs puts you in the sleep zone again. Both would be great for rotary plow and snow blowing jobs.
 

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One thing about mowing with an LS and GRW's is that mowing is a never ending job. By the time you are done mowing, you just start again at the beginning. The engine has to be rebuilt every 6 months but you get a lot of seat time in.:ROF
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
One thing about mowing with an LS and GRW's is that mowing is a never ending job. By the time you are done mowing, you just start again at the beginning. The engine has to be rebuilt every 6 months but you get a lot of seat time in.:ROF
I actually mow my 3+ acres once a week in the grow season, but I use a walk behind 1993 vintage Scag 52" w/17hp Kawasaki twin. I do have a 30" rotary I bring out when the going gets tough or want to clear out a new space. I have light, medium and heavy blades for that. Oh and a mulch screen too. Not to mention, a nos, never, ever used 18" horizontal saw that only has a light frame around it for haha! protection. It will probably stay that way until they set it out at the estate sale too.
 
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