[Dodgeboy49]

Who likes story problems? :hide:

The State of Washington laws state that a CDL is required for trailers with a weight rating of 10,001 lbs or more, and a gross combined weight rating of 26,001 lbs or more.

Let's say that I am looking at a trailer with a manufacturers weight rating of 10,000 lbs (1 lb under the limit!) and a truck with a GVW of 17,000 lbs. Do these numbers combine to make a GCVW of 27,000 lbs? Separately, neither of these would trigger a need for a CDL. Together, at least in my conceptually-challenged brain, they would.

Am I thinking about this correctly, or is there something else in the equation that I am missing (such as the truck's tow rating)?

 

[JRC0528]

I would think your trucks GCVW rating would be the deciding factor there... but I wouldn't be surprised if they scaled you if it looks too heavy.

 

[TUDOR]

GCVW = Gross Combined Vehicle Weight

Check with the local authorities, but it seems to me that as long as the actual weight is within your license rating, you're golden, or at least in an arguable position depending on the mood of whoever is handing out the ticket.

A lot depends on what the truck is rated for on the registration, not on the door jam. I have seen a contractor register his dump trucks at such a low weight that it required the removal of the dump boxes for separate transportation to the next job site. The trucks were registered for 20,000 lb for highway use, but on the job site they weighed upwards of 60,000 lb with a full load. Different rules hold on a contractors job site.

 

[TooManyGT]

Are you doing commercial work with it? A lot of states only require CDL's at that low of a weight if its used in a commercial capacity. Non commercial can usually be much higher, but as TUDOR stated check with the local DOT enforcers if you have any questions as laws vary greatly from state-state.

 

[KWDAILYD]

Are you doing commercial work with it? A lot of states only require CDL's at that low of a weight if its used in a commercial capacity. Non commercial can usually be much higher, but as TUDOR stated check with the local DOT enforcers if you have any questions as laws vary greatly from state-state.

I have a class "A" CDL and around here it's not required if you own the vehicle you are driving and it's used for personal use, not commercial. At least that's the way it was when I was still working. An example is you can have a 40' motor home towing just about anything behind it as long as it's yours for personal use with no CDL. The CDL requirement only applied to commercial vehicles.

 

[89YT12]

As far as all my training has told me you do not need a CDL for personal use above 26k

For example Penske and Budgets biggest truck has a GVW of 25,999 and the car hauler most tow behind has a GVW of 7,500

Hee-Haws (U-Haul) biggest truck is a GVW of 20,000 and the car hauler 7,500 still over the 25,999 combined.

To be safe and possibly even to be legal you need to have "PRIVATE NOT FOR HIRE" in 3" letters on the truck and/or trailer

 

[rscurtis]

I bought an IH 4300 in 2001 for use at my rental store, and had to get a non-CDL class "C" for it's 26,000# GVW. That category existed in NY State for vehicles in the 18- 26,000# weight class. It required a written test and a road test. That requirement has since been dispensed with. If the truck had air brakes, that endorsement would have been required also.

 

[meburdick]

GCVW is determined by the tow vehicle. So, while you may have a 10k trailer and a 17k tow vehicle, if the GCVW listed for the tow vehicle is 26k, you can't have more than 9k in trailer and cargo combined if the tow vehicle is at its max.

Also... Many tow vehicles are only rated to two a "full trailer" (like a 10k) with a certain maximum cargo load in the tow vehicle itself. So, that 17k tow vehicle might only be able to be at 14k while pulling a full 10k load behind it (because some of that trailer weight is carried by the suspension of the tow vehicle).

 

[Dodgeboy49]

So basically what I am hearing is that the truck itself will have an indication on it somewhere concerning what the truck's max GCVW should be.

Washington makes the CDL requirements pretty easy. Anything with a GVW of 26,001 lbs or more requires one (unless it's an RV). Any trailer with a manufacturers weight rating of 10,001 lbs or more and a combined rating of 26,001 lbs or more also requires a CDL (again, except RV's). Registered weight, ownership, and intended use (private or commercial) make absolutely no difference on that score, though it does make a difference in registration fees.

I will be checking with the local DOL before acting on anything, but I like talking to you guys better.

 

[TUDOR]

So basically what I am hearing is that the truck itself will have an indication on it somewhere concerning what the truck's max GCVW should be.


I will be checking with the local DOL before acting on anything, but I like talking to you guys better.

There should be a sticker or plate on the driver's door jam below the latch giving the axle ratings, and maybe the GCVW rating as well. The one for my Chevy G20 states 3500 for each axle and 11,000 GCVW.

Yup. It can be frustrating talking to the swivel service folks.

 

[KWDAILYD]

I drove a truck for 5 years back in the early 90's and what's frustrating is out on the road, at least here, the law can be subject to interpretation. I drove semi dumps and triaxle's in the summer and pulled a flat bed in the winter. We had a construction job going on that required us to cross the scales going both ways 5 or 6 times a day, loaded both ways. Myself and a friend stopped at the NB scale the first day driving triaxle's and asked what they expected of us and the DOT officer came out and told us what they wanted for weight but she said we needed to stop at the SB scale and ask them because they could interpret the law differently. These scales were across from each other on a divided interstate highway.

 

[Diesel Powered]

So basically what I am hearing is that the truck itself will have an indication on it somewhere concerning what the truck's max GCVW should be.

Washington makes the CDL requirements pretty easy. Anything with a GVW of 26,001 lbs or more requires one (unless it's an RV). Any trailer with a manufacturers weight rating of 10,001 lbs or more and a combined rating of 26,001 lbs or more also requires a CDL (again, except RV's). Registered weight, ownership, and intended use (private or commercial) make absolutely no difference on that score, though it does make a difference in registration fees.

I will be checking with the local DOL before acting on anything, but I like talking to you guys better.

I can't recall ever seeing GCWR listed on a pickup; it should be in the owners manual, but sometimes they get lost. GVW for the truck is always listed in the door jamb unless somebody has damaged the tag.

There should be a sticker or plate on the driver's door jam below the latch giving the axle ratings, and maybe the GCVW rating as well. The one for my Chevy G20 states 3500 for each axle and 11,000 GCVW.

Yup. It can be frustrating talking to the swivel service folks.

That's GVW for the truck, not GCVW; there's a big difference.

 

[Dodgeboy49]

So maybe that's how I should ask the question- If I get stopped for inspection or something, how will the inspecting officer determine what my GCVW rating would be? Actual weight doesn't seem to be the issue, otherwise I could drive just about anything with a regular license as long as it was unloaded.

 

[Diesel Powered]

So maybe that's how I should ask the question- If I get stopped for inspection or something, how will the inspecting officer determine what my GCVW rating would be? Actual weight doesn't seem to be the issue, otherwise I could drive just about anything with a regular license as long as it was unloaded.

Actual weight doesn't matter as far as what license you need to drive a certain rig; what the rig is capable of (at the gross level) is what matters. If the officer doesn't know what the truck is rated for on the combined level, they could go off of the truck tag plus the trailer tag, but that isn't even close to being correct in a lot of cases (way overloading what the truck manufacturer says is the GCWR); that's why it's best to check with your local authorities and see what they expect. My truck, for example, has roughly a dozen different GCWR specs in the manual depending on engine/trans/axles/4x4/etc. I'd recommend getting their answer in a hard copy some how (around here they'll actually send you an email followup, after you call in, of questions asked and answers given so you have proof) so you at least have a leg to stand on if you get stopped by a different officer (since they can/will interpret things differently).

 

[saskman49]

If you are talking pickup trucks there is no way it would have a GVWR of 17,000lbs. Imagine that most 1/2 tons weigh around 6000 lbs or less so that would give one a payload of 11000 lbs and a 3/4 ton like mine weighs abit over 7300 so again almost 10k payload (not gonna happen) It would be more like anywhere from abt 7500 for a good 1/2 ton up to 10,000 in a Ford F250 and then maybe 11000 or 12000 in a 1 ton. 17,000 lbs would be the GCWR of a specific pickup for example my 08 Dodge Ram 2500 Megacab 4x4 had a GCWR of 17,000 and a GVWR of 8800. My current F250 has a GVWR of 9600 and and GCWR of 19,000 and if it had 4.30 gears it would be 22,000. Now if you are talking larger trucks like a 5 ton etc well thats different. Around here you need either a G endorsement or a Class 1 CDL to haul a trailer over 10,000 lbs period and that entails medical etc., the tow vehicle is also supposed to be registered (on our registrations it is listed as Registered Gross Vehicle Weight RGVW) and as the owner you are responsible for ensuring the number is accurate as we get charged a non commercial version of road tax and are suspectable to fines if that number is exceeded, they don't even look at the trucks ratings just the registration.

Hope this helps abit.

 

[jar19800]

as i was taught:

Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating= GCVWR
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating=GVWR

GVWR: maximum that the vehicle can weigh with weight of the vehicle, cargo, passengers, fuels ect.

GCVWR: maximum that vehicle, cargo, passngers, fuels ect PLUS total COMBINED weight of a tow AND its cargo.

so lets say the GVWR of a 3/4 ton pickup is 7900 pounds. and the vehicle empty weighs 5900 pounds; gas weighs full tank 150, you, the ole lady, the dawg, and lunch cooler combine for 450. this brings the total so far to 6500 pounds. you can have a MAXIMUM cargo load of 1400 pounds.

now lets say that the same car has a GCVWR of 10900 pounds. we know the car empty weighs 5900, gas weighs full tank 150, you, the ole lady, the dawg, and lunch cooler combine for 450. this brings the total so far to 6500 pounds. this means that the weight of the trailer and cargo cannot exceed 4400 pound. the trailer weighs 800 so the 69 Camero (make believe) you are on the way to pick up weighs 3200 pounds so we have 400 pounds of excess capacity we can use for picking up a new BBQ grill and some groceries on the way home.

clear as mud?:duh:

 

[Dodgeboy49]

I'm trying to hit that spot right in the middle between regular pickup and heavy truck. I'm thinking of something in the two to three ton range for a tow vehicle, which easily falls under the CDL limit on its own. I'm less concerned about getting a load moving than I am about having the mass and larger brakes to handle that load once it is moving. Depending on how the trailer changes things, I may need to just stick with a long, straight truck that is just under 26,000 gross to keep things simple.

 

[jar19800]

it is my understanding that this is what the weight limits are for. CONTROLLING the load with brakes and such as you mentioned.

some states need this to be controlled"professionally" thus the need for a commercial class license.

 

[Boyd]

Get copies of your states Commercial drivers manual and the regular drivers manual. Read both and keep both in your vehicle for when you get pulled over. I have read the Minnesota CDL manual relating to my lawn service when I still had it. Since I just mowed lawns and I didn't haul any dirt or other products sold to the customer for landscaping or other work I didn't need a CDL or DOT numbers on my truck. Once a year I would call up the DOT and chat with one of the officers asking if there were any changes to the laws. Usually there would be no changes but in the latter years the officers would often lie to me and state I needed to have state DOT numbers when I was just mowing lawns. The lies spoken to me by them really was irritating. I have talked to many different business owners around here and they recommend not having a business name on the truck, trailer or mowers,,, and also not to drive a truck that is a dually. Minnesota DOT is really strict.