[matt167]

I've got my grandfathers old Troybilt Horse, last ran 6 years ago, and it wasn't running good. I rebuilt the carb but it wasn't quite right. He had barely gotten his garden tilled one last time before he gave up on his big garden. Pretty sure it's an H80 or something. I don't really remember, but the real reason he let it sit is because I had trouble getting the engine parts

I have a brand new, 212cc Predator that I just dug out of my stuff that I bought for a project that will never happen and I think this is what it needs to go on.. What is the parts list that I need for this?

 

[sonny]

old one was probably the tech hh80---8hp--(got one here that I use) ---you will first have to measure up the crank diameter and length. then the bolt pattern and work from there. I think they are s'posed to fit but I repower mine with Kohler motors.

 

[matt167]

Tank is on top, not on the side, so it's for sure an HH80 and not an HM80.

4 bolt circle and looks like 3/4" shaft. Have a spare mostly complete Horse as well but the sliding pins are seized and it's missing the tine covers, and engine parts.

 

[matt167]

Well, the box had gotten wet from improper storage as someone reorganized all my stuff into a leaky shed without me knowing. I found lots of my stuff ruined after repairing the roof this summer but thought the engine might be ok.. It rusted up the carburator but I thought it would be ok but after firing it up, the throttle and governer are frozen open... Go kart engine, later. New carb, pipe and governer removal. I'll find a junk kart somewhere

Now since I'm set on and need a tiller this summer, I'm going to buy another Predator.. I can get the Non HEMI locally, or I can order the HEMI in, which would cost $8 more

 

[matt167]

Well, the local HF had the HEMI ( EPA/CARB ) in stock under the non hemi ( EPA ) part number... I didn't know until I pulled it out of the box

I was eyeballing the 301cc as it has the right bolt pattern on the inner circle, but I would have to give up reverse and get new pullies

 

[sonny]

reverse is kinda needed on a horse---most of mine dont work and its a bear turning around without reverse.

 

[matt167]

Yeah, I got the 212cc so everything will bolt up, and I'll get new belts and a new disc when I put it back together

 

[matt167]

Got the old cast iron Tech removed. I destroyed the fiber wheel as it was stuck onto the pulley sheave and I had to damage it to get it off. I'll put the more modern version back on. Listing says 1989 and newer but everyone seems to say it'll fit.. Serial number tag is blank

 

[matt167]

This is probably the simplest thing I have ever swapped.. All told I think I have 2 hours into it. The Predator went right on. Throttle cable is too short so I'll need a new one, and the bumper will need some massaging to fit back on. Waiting on the reverse disc to arrive

 

[sonny]

Glad you got it that close to runnin! --- garden time is just around the corner!

 

[matt167]

Was running great, and the bumper was fitted after a while. I have a hydraulic press which made precisely kinking the tube very easy... But after a couple minutes of testing, the engine developed a rod knock to the point it won't hold idle, so in the box it goes back for a refund.

I think I'm going to stick on a Briggs XR 9.50 ( 208cc clone ) from SEW. They have them for $200 and I think the air cleaner will fit better with HD use and around the bumper as well.

 

[matt167]

I ordered an XR950 commercial and it was $250 tax and shipping.. I could have had a CR950 for $200 OTD, free shipping no tax but the lttle extra for the commercial variant was worth it. Swapping the engine is easy enough but It was a bit fiddly to get the 4 bolts in and hold the engine all at the same time. Not something I'm willing to do over and over again.

 

[MoJoMowerman]

My Buddy next store builds those Predator's for go-cart racing professionally. He will get 19 hp out of them when done. But the main issue with them is changing the oil after 1 hour of run time. Very important to him. I have put them on tillers and more and change the oil every time and have had great luck. I still dont like putting them on but that is what the people want.

 

[matt167]

My Buddy next store builds those Predator's for go-cart racing professionally. He will get 19 hp out of them when done. But the main issue with them is changing the oil after 1 hour of run time. Very important to him. I have put them on tillers and more and change the oil every time and have had great luck. I still dont like putting them on but that is what the people want.

I normally change the oil 3 times during break in within an hr, and have a few Predators on equipment.. However this engine has ~7 mins run time and most of that was at 1/2-3/4 throttle. I was just testing the tiller gear case really

 

[sonny]

sorry it didnt work! --- I guess all makes have a bad one now and then! ---Hope your new one is a good one, and ya----getting the bolts in is fun!
I take the casting off and set motors on the table then put the bolts in! --- still the casting is heavy but not like holding the motor up.
The pins that the casting rides on are not hard to take out and makes it lots easier to mount on the engine, then set the whole thing back on and slide the pins in.

 

[matt167]

I was going to take the slide pins out and drop the cradle, but it's easy enough to do it in the air. I actually found a 1/4" drive screwdriver handle with a 1/2" socket will snake behind to get them started rean easy, and then a ratchet with extension can snug them.. I installed it with fingers and wrenches.

I looked up the brand new Horses, and they are using Briggs 1450's which are a 306cc clone. As I understand it, the 2 speed Horses were not designed to take over 6hp, so a ~200cc engine is 'right' for my unit. The XR950 should be perfect. Would have went real GX200 except that was $300.. I did find the original engine is an HH60

 

[sonny]

Junk HH60's were on a couple of mine and I went with 8 hp Kholers on them. They work fine for my use which is cultivation mostly and not first time break-up use.
The problem with the new luni motors is that they are too light and the tiller is tail heavy and has no traction whatsoever. You lose 40 pounds off the front end with the new motors---I dont like that as it makes the tillers awkward to handle and not desired, so there is a trade-off with the new motors.
After one season fighting the new motor on one of mine, I was able to get the parts to rebuild my original Kohler 7 and put it back on. new motor will go on something else. ----Maybe to run the dump trailer hoist,--- lighter is better on that.
The original Kholer 7's were something like 84 pounds and the new 7's are 38 ----- Trust me when I say it sucks as far as no traction!

 

[matt167]

According to list weight, the HH60 is only about 10 lbs lighter than the XR950, being 53 lbs vs 44 lbs. I can fluid fill the tires as well

 

[sonny]

I was going to make concrete wheel weights for mine but the wife talked me out of it -----wheel weights would drag the plants down anyway so for now I live with them the way they are.
The biggest problem I have now is finding drive belts for them. the 22" they sell you does NOT work---too long and a 21 would be too short. 21 1/2" would be ideal.

 

[matt167]

Anyone know if the new model bumpers fit the old tillers? They look to mount in identical locations. The Briggs Professional XR9.50 fits and works great except the valve cover requires extensive mods and welding for clearance. The new bumpers are wider for the OHV engines.. I have it all set up and functional otherwise. I just don't like it unfinished, and MTD does sell the bumper as an accessory