[TClowers]

I have a question for those of you experienced with both the 3813 and 4514 models. We used to have (it's in a good hiding spot at the moment) a service manual for the 3813 and are not excited about the prospect of purchasing another.

Of course we currently have an issue with the 3813 not wanting to start and could really use the troubleshooting section from that manual if only we could locate it in all my dad's "stuff". :banghead3

Anyways, I was able to find a link to a downloadable 4514 service manual and am wondering if the troubleshooting section from that manual would apply equally to the 3813?

Specifically tests for coil, charging, relays, etc.

Best Regards,

Tom Clowers

 

[limequat]

I just rebuilt a 3813 with the 4214 manual. It's not exact, but it's pretty close. Better than nothing for sure!

 

[larryccf]

very little difference in the actual engines, the 4514 carb has a fuel solenoid cutoff on the carb bowl, muffler and pto are different but as far as starting - the starter etc are the same, but i think where you'll have issues is the relays (control relay or combo relay) on the 4514 is an entirely different setup than the 3813

what kind of starting problems are you having? - if like what i just experienced, Dave4514 tuned me into some values for the solenoid and starter that helped me find the problem - they might help you http://www.mytractorforum.com/showthread.php?t=282738

 

[TClowers]

It turns over but seems to have no spark.

Sent from the MTF Free App

 

[limequat]

It turns over but seems to have no spark.

Sent from the MTF Free App

Have you verified this by pulling a plug and rolling it over?

Ether is really handy in these situations for a quick indication whether or not it's getting spark.

 

[TClowers]

We had previously pulled plugs and verified no spark.

Have you verified this by pulling a plug and rolling it over?

Ether is really handy in these situations for a quick indication whether or not it's getting spark.

 

[TClowers]

Thank you for your suggestions we managed to confirm that the ignition coil is working as it should and within spec but only after first reading an open circuit across the ignition wires.

Quickly realized the plug boots should not be in the circuit. Removed those and voila, correct ohm reading. Took apart the inside of the plug boots to figure out why no continuity and discovered it to be somewhat oxidized where the brass screw cap contacts the "resistor"? Cleaned these up with our little sand blaster and put it all back together.

Now we have consistent spark. Put it all back together and she fired up! So we are back running but my dad noted after things got warm it was running erratically. Hoping this is from gas sitting in it for a year...

 

[larryccf]

in all likelihood it is, the alcohol blended gas is horrible in terms of leaving sediment and clogging passageways. couple years back i'd just cleaned the carb, left it over the winter without running it or using that fuel stabilizer and had problems in the spring - pulled the carb bowl off and found what looked like clear cellophane shavings in the bottom of the bowl..

run some seafoam thru it - a few ounces each tankfull for awhile - it'll clean the carb out

 

[TClowers]

Well scratch what I said earlier. Went to start it tonight to load up and bring to my place and we are back to not starting and no spark. Will verify ohm readings on ignition coil tomorrow in the daylight.

For what it's worth. Seems to have no trouble getting fuel judging by the perfume of gasoline with the plugs out.

Sent from the MTF Free App

 

[larryccf]

for the heck of it, pull all the plugs from the relays on the "relay tree" to the right of the battery (behind the radiator overflow bottle) - pull em one at a time and work them in/out a couple of times just to re-establish good contact - those spade connectors in the plugs like to corrode over time, and like i said earlier, the control relay does control the spark, ie if it's not seeing 12V from the battery, it kills the magneto

you wouldn't hurt yourself to do the same with the PTO connector body and the seat safety connector (under the seat) - if PTO lever is in the on position (forward) and there's no weight on the seat, it will not start

fwiw

 

[MBL3813]

Hi TC,

I might be wrong, but this apparent intermittent spark condition is very much like, if not identical to my HT3813 when I first got it.. I got it going .. was real pleased .. then if would not start had no spark.. etc..

I tested resistances plug connector ends... and it turned out to need the spark unit coil assembly which I got from boats for $94... While I was in there I replaced the Timing belt and due to a fair amount of wear on the drive pulley teeth I replaced the water pump & water pump O-ring as well..

The Ign. coil assembly got my machine running reliably again and my lawn had not looked as good for years..

Should you need a quick Boats Coil http://www.boats.net/parts/detail/honda/H-30500-ZA0-701.html link:

Cheers & Good Luck, MBL

 

[TClowers]

Well I ordered the ignition coil from Boats. Hopefully it's a stock item from them. The cryptic order screen at the end made it look as though they may not have stock on hand? Too long on hold to call them so I'll just wait the 3 or so order fulfillment days and see what happens.

In looking at the schematic and from our short experience with it running it looks like the only thing the control relay does is prevent throwing the single wire on the coil to ground and thus killing the output of the magneto. In our testing we started it and ran with that wire disconnected. Of course we couldn't kill it until we plugged it back in and shut it off.

The mower deck on this thing has some cancer and has been welded before and will need some again. Too bad you can't buy decks for them anymore.

In the meantime the grass keeps growing...

Hi TC,

I might be wrong, but this apparent intermittent spark condition is very much like, if not identical to my HT3813 when I first got it.. I got it going .. was real pleased .. then if would not start had no spark.. etc..

I tested resistances plug connector ends... and it turned out to need the spark unit coil assembly which I got from boats for $94... While I was in there I replaced the Timing belt and due to a fair amount of wear on the drive pulley teeth I replaced the water pump & water pump O-ring as well..

The Ign. coil assembly got my machine running reliably again and my lawn had not looked as good for years..

Should you need a quick Boats Coil http://www.boats.net/parts/detail/honda/H-30500-ZA0-701.html link:

Cheers & Good Luck, MBL

 

[TClowers]

Realized I had not update you all on my project. Ordered the ignition coil unit and replaced it and we are back in business. Mower runs excellent.

After thinking about it a little more clearly it's obvious it had to be this part. It's basically isolated from the rest of the electrical system outside of the kill to ground for the coil.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions and help.

Now if I could find a deck in better shape than the one I have. We welded some new steel into it this weekend and that should hold off the specter of death for a while.

 

[larryccf]

i've got a 42" deck i need to get up for sale - let me get some photos and i'll pm you with a link to em