trouble with a K181, won't fire

It probably won't run with a 112 carb. Way to much fuel and not enough air restriction.

I'd clean your 110 carb and reinstall. That will work even if your idle jet is still clogged.

Check for spark, do a thumb test for compression. And crank for 30 seconds trying to get it to go. Then check the plug for unburnt fuel.

Most often I find a bad plug or coil on dead ones I get. I've also had stuck points on one.

What kind of coil does it have? Switch it with known good one,the flywheel key could also be sheared.change the condenser too.

Clean out the original carb and reinstall. Are you sure gas valve is open and the screen is not plugged and you're getting fuel to carb?

Couple things to try:

1)Spray some gas/carb cleaner down the plug hole and see if the engine will fire up, if it runs a few seconds then dies you have a carb problem, if nothing happens you have other issues than a carb

2) Do you have an inline spark tester? If not I'd suggest getting one especially if you work on equipment like this they are a very handy tool to have, just because you see spark outside the engine does not mean its a strong enough spark to fire under compression.

Rydplrs said:

It probably won't run with a 112 carb. Way to much fuel and not enough air restriction.


I'd clean your 110 carb and reinstall. That will work even if your idle jet is still clogged.

Check for spark, do a thumb test for compression. And crank for 30 seconds trying to get it to go. Then check the plug for unburnt fuel.

Most often I find a bad plug or coil on dead ones I get. I've also had stuck points on one.

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Sorry if I didn't say that clearly. The other carb is from the same engine on another 110, not from the 112.
I have good spark, at least at the spark plug. Not sure how to check for compression with my thumb, just crank with my thumb over the spark plug hole? This engine has ACR, automatic compression release I am assuming.
Points look almost new, did run some sandpaper over them and regapped.

biker3777 said:

What kind of coil does it have? Switch it with known good one,the flywheel key could also be sheared.change the condenser too.

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I don't have another coil to swap in, but will change the condenser tomorrow. How do I check for a sheared key?

MTB98 said:

Clean out the original carb and reinstall. Are you sure gas valve is open and the screen is not plugged and you're getting fuel to carb?

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The original carb is really really nasty, probably would need to be boiled. Yes, the valve is open, I checked for gas in the bowl. Just to be clear, I did not use the original gas tank, I used the one from the parts tractor. I have new gas line and also installed an inline fuel filter. All should be good in that regard.

Bolens 1000 said:

Couple things to try:

1)Spray some gas/carb cleaner down the plug hole and see if the engine will fire up, if it runs a few seconds then dies you have a carb problem, if nothing happens you have other issues than a carb

I tried this too. Nothing happens.

2) Do you have an inline spark tester? If not I'd suggest getting one especially if you work on equipment like this they are a very handy tool to have, just because you see spark outside the engine does not mean its a strong enough spark to fire under compression.

I will have to look into this tool. To me, it looks like I have a very strong spark, if you can tell from just looking at it, not sure.

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Thanks for the comments guys, I will try all of your suggestions.

The flywheel will need to be removed,but eliminate all the other things,if the coil is Other than Kohler that might be the issue.Remove the plug ( or use a known good plug) and ground it to the block and crank the motor over,if you have used straight gas and it didn't run,there is no spark.coil wires can be bad too.The motor will run with bad condenser but will burn the points up.

biker,

That's how I checked for spark, grounding the plug to the block. Looked very good to me. The coil looks to be original to the engine, but not sure, just going by all the dirt and crud on it. I am using premium no ethanol gas.

If the key is sheared it will still fire but at the wrong time,if you are getting spark then the coil is good.there might be a stuck valve Alamo,pull the head and you can see if the valves are working.

biker3777 said:

If the key is sheared it will still fire but at the wrong time,if you are getting spark then the coil is good.there might be a stuck valve Alamo,pull the head and you can see if the valves are working.

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Oh boy, I was afraid you would say something like this, LOL. I've never done this before ... and at my old age ... do I dare start now? I guess since I won't be out in the woods tomorrow huntin, I might as well try this out. I wouldn't doubt that this could be the problem, just from the looks of the carb. This tractor must have been sitting for some time. Thanks for the help. Will I be able to free a stuck valve?

You can just barely see the valves thru the spark plug hole with a strong light (check if moving). Or remove the valve cover (front of engine, below/behind carb and see them there). The engine has a compression release, but it will still build compression. Mine builds 100 psi, just cranking the engine over. Give it a shot of gas thru the intake or ether. Check if the plug is wet with fuel when you're trying to start it. Is it timed (points adjusted) correctly? Doesn't have to be off much and it wont run.

If you remove the nut on the FW you can see if the key lines up with the slot in the crank.

Jim help me out, pretty sure I am missing something..... The points are driven by the plunger that goes to the cam shaft.... The points are hooked to the coil which gives spark when the points tell it to from the cam shaft.... The cam shaft is driven via a gear on the crankshaft linking the cam and crank permenantly.... Right? How does the flywheel affect the time img of the engine in this case. I can see if it was a solid state or other type of ignition that relates to the flywheel but as described I don't think the flywheel key would matter.

My suggestion: buy a bucket of carb cleaner from Walmart, spend $16 on a carb kit for the k181 and clean the original carb.... Fuel, air, spark... You have spark and I am guessing it is getting air (if the valves are moving) leaving fuel as the concern..... Since the engine ran recently....

bmwpowere36m3 said:

You can just barely see the valves thru the spark plug hole with a strong light (check if moving). Or remove the valve cover (front of engine, below/behind carb and see them there). The engine has a compression release, but it will still build compression. Mine builds 100 psi, just cranking the engine over. Give it a shot of gas thru the intake or ether. Check if the plug is wet with fuel when you're trying to start it. Is it timed (points adjusted) correctly? Doesn't have to be off much and it wont run.

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I will see if I can see the valves, got a good light. I don't have a tester, but I will see if I can get one or at least borrow one. I will double check the points. I've got them gapped at .015 per my mechanic friend, but I see the manual says .020. Could this be the problem?

biker3777 said:

If you remove the nut on the FW you can see if the key lines up with the slot in the crank.

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I can do this, yay!

mrbeef said:

Jim help me out, pretty sure I am missing something..... The points are driven by the plunger that goes to the cam shaft.... The points are hooked to the coil which gives spark when the points tell it to from the cam shaft.... The cam shaft is driven via a gear on the crankshaft linking the cam and crank permenantly.... Right? How does the flywheel affect the time img of the engine in this case. I can see if it was a solid state or other type of ignition that relates to the flywheel but as described I don't think the flywheel key would matter.

My suggestion: buy a bucket of carb cleaner from Walmart, spend $16 on a carb kit for the k181 and clean the original carb.... Fuel, air, spark... You have spark and I am guessing it is getting air (if the valves are moving) leaving fuel as the concern..... Since the engine ran recently....

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I don't know when this engine was run last, just a really long time ago. My donor tractor was running 2 years ago, and the PO pretty much butchered it up on the electrical side, ie: took the stator out and cut all wires, took the coil and kept it, and also cut any wires. I think he did this all because of a bad ignition switch, :fing20: which I found right away, that or bad points. I will have to order the carb kit and carb cleaner. All I have is cleaner in a spray can.


:thThumbsU Thanks again guys for all the help. I will be getting out to the garage shortly.

Flywheel doesn't matter... only if you use it to set the points based on the marks on it. Start with points at 0.020" when the "S" mark is aligned.

I'd start with points at 0.020" and try starting it, then give it a shot of gas or ether.

The flywheel itself doesn't trigger the ignition system. However it has marks that nessecary to set the points.

bmwpowere36m3 said:

The flywheel itself doesn't trigger the ignition system. However it has marks that nessecary to set the points.

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I hand turned the pto for TDC and then set the point gap. (Turned fairly easy, lack of compression?) Should I be using the flywheel instead?

Unless you have the pto engaged it will just turn on the crank. Turn it over from the flywheel side, removing spark plug makes it easier. You will want to be on the compression stroke when it fires.

Just one little thought from me, Papa... There's a red wire that goes from the ignition switch all the way to the + side of the coil. Did you check if you have continuity on that wire? I had a temporary "no-fire" condition when mine on my 110 cracked where it ran under the flywheel side of the block so it was grounding against the frame. You should have +12 volts at the + side of the coil when your ignition switch is in the "on" position... If not, no fire!

littletractorguy said:

Just one little thought from me, Papa... There's a red wire that goes from the ignition switch all the way to the + side of the coil. Did you check if you have continuity on that wire? I had a temporary "no-fire" condition when mine on my 110 cracked where it ran under the flywheel side of the block so it was grounding against the frame. You should have +12 volts at the + side of the coil when your ignition switch is in the "on" position... If not, no fire!

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He already said he had spark.