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Oh please!!! Just about every country or business attacks every other country or business, it's the nature of the game. Computers are simply another tool. The USA certainly does not have the patent on being truthful, even with it's own citizens.
Simply look how the death count is being inflated, if you want to look for truth here. How many deaths that have nothing to do with CoVid-19 are being counted as CoVid-19 ones? This is all stuff that the academics in the future can argue over.
Everyone needs to comprehend that the MSM has a narrative they want everyone to believe. It doesn't even have to be true. A lie repeated often enough becomes a truth of it's own, but is still a lie. A recent poll came out that said journalists were below the congresscritters as far as being truthful or to be trusted. That's pretty low.

Back in February, I was all for the measures taken with CoVid-19 because it was an unknown virus that we had really no idea of the effects. Now it is almost May and we know quite a bit more about it and the effects on the population. The recent antibody testing shows that CoVid-19 has infected many more people than we thought. Many of these people had only mild or no reaction to the virus. Even if one does contract the virus and the persons seeks medical assistance, they likely will recover. That is if they have no other severe condition that they may be already being treated for.
This CoVid-19 virus has struck quite hard in the cities and surrounding areas that have a dense population, but not in the more rural areas of the country. Even so, the death rate of CoVid-19 is quite low even in those confirmed to have it. As of yesterday according to the Johns Hopkins dashboard, we in the USA have tested almost 5 million people, under a million of those tested showed they were infected and only 52,000 have died. In 2017, over 60,000 died from influenza and pneumonia. CoVid-19 is a nasty virus, but is it worth shutting down the country and economy?
 

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Folks this is trending to being more political than helpful, let's stay focused on factual information that is helpful to the membership not op-eds on political matters.
 
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If your comparing this virus to the 2017 flu, the 2017 flu had a vaccination and a cure. This virus doesn't and that's why the country is at a "Stay at Home" status.This virus spreads ten times faster than the regular flu.
 

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There is no comparison between the flu and Coronavirus. We have not had to practice social distancing and wear masks for preventing the flu. If we didn't do those things with Covid we would all have it by now except for those fortunate enough to have immunity, and many more people would have died.
 

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That navy ship "Comfort" only had 78 patients actually using it--it is now back in VA..

NYC didn't need anywhere near the amount of ventilators requested either--now many are being sent to other "hot spots"..

Still,50,000 deaths in the USA is no joke,and half of were them in NYC alone....death toll here in MA is well over 2500 now,and still climbing by 100+ a day,the peak isn't expected for another week or more too..something close to 50,000 positive tests out of over 200,000 tested..

When I was out yesterday,I saw about 50% of the other people had masks and gloves on..the rest--nothing..social distancing in the store was observed, for the most part--but your still 2 feet away from the cashier,who wears the same gloves all day probably--and who knows where the money you get in change was,or whats on it..or the card swiper,those buttons were pressed by hundreds of folks before you got your turn..

If it is so contagious I'd think no one could escape being exposed by now,no matter what precautions were taken..its probably "everywhere" by now..
The fact many being tested for antibodies that had no symptoms are testing positive proves its been around longer than we have been told--and the fact those who dont feel "sick" are out spreading it thinking they are not infected, makes it worse than most flu viruses ..

I do wonder though,why this year was the one to shut everything down and plummet the economy into a depression,when SARS,MERS,H1N1,Ebola,all were "new & un-curable diseases"also,just as this supposedly is, with no known treatments or vaccines,yet we hardly heard anything about them on the news,and the country went about its business like nothing was wrong..
That and the number of flu deaths in previous years being suppressed,you didn't hear a daily death count on the news when those 60,0000 died ..nor were we told to stay home,businesses forced to close up. ..the flu vaccines are not always effective either,it mutates every year and if the wrong strain gets chosen,your chances of getting it are as good or better than without a shot ..were we any safer then ?..

While I'm not looking forward to being stuck inside all summer,I do think "opening things up"too soon will backfire and cause a second wave,which may prove as bad or worse than the initial outbreak,because we all "hid" from the virus and haven't any immunity built up,and all the field hospitals they built here might be taken down if things look better for awhile ..if our governor has his way,we may end up being house bound the rest of 2020..
 

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Discussion Starter #270
Let's not get political. I think we are close to that and I started it. Sorry.
 

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TH, we got lucky with the first SARS, MERS and H1N1, and Ebola is hard to spread (thank God) Yes, the flu is responsible for many deaths every year. The difference with COVID19 is that it is more contagious and more deadly than the flu. 50000 US citizens in 2 months and that is with attempts to protect ourselves.
 

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This thread is in our Health and Fitness forum, and appropriate for that section. As such, and with what is going on, and at the top of every news show, rather than close it, how about we just keep politics out completely. There is much good information about this headline topic available for discussion without going into politics (and I am guilty as well). If we can't keep on track about the virus itself, updated statistics, and some of the good things that are going on in relation to it, then reluctantly, we will have to close the thread.
 

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So what is your point?
My point is that there are many similarities between CoVid-19 and the 'flu', both are upper respiratory illnesses. If you had read the link I provided from Johns Hopkins, you would have found that most of the symptoms, treatments and outcomes are very similar to the flu. The main differences are that CoVid-19 is caused by one virus where the flu is caused by several viruses and there currently is not a vaccine for CoVid-19. The vaccine for the flu is only for the most common flu viruses and you can still get the flu from another virus not in the vaccine. People do die each year from the flu, mainly because in the later severe stages they develop pneumonia. Both the CoVid-19 and the flu viruses can be deadly to those people that already have another disease.
 

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My point is that there are many similarities between CoVid-19 and the 'flu', both are upper respiratory illnesses. If you had read the link I provided from Johns Hopkins, you would have found that most of the symptoms, treatments and outcomes are very similar to the flu. The main differences are that CoVid-19 is caused by one virus where the flu is caused by several viruses and there currently is not a vaccine for CoVid-19. The vaccine for the flu is only for the most common flu viruses and you can still get the flu from another virus not in the vaccine. People do die each year from the flu, mainly because in the later severe stages they develop pneumonia. Both the CoVid-19 and the flu viruses can be deadly to those people that already have another disease.
Regardless of similarities or differences, there is still no vaccine for covid-19. Covid-19 is actually a cousin to SARS. Without the shutdown we risk mass infection.

If 100 million people get infected over the next 2-3 years and only 1% die that's still a million deaths. That's in addition to all the other health issue we already face. The health system can't handle it.

The measures taken today are trying to prevent the spread until a vaccine is available.
 

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Vaccines are not cures. Vaccines introduce a a weakened virus to the body so that it begins to produce antibodies which allows one to prevent the illness. Medicines can provide cures. This is why the antibody testing was so important.
I think also that people are confusing the stomach flu with the respiratory flu. They are different viruses which also cause different symptoms, perhaps that caused the run on toilet paper.

 

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... In 2017, over 60,000 died from influenza and pneumonia. CoVid-19 is a nasty virus, but is it worth shutting down the country and economy?
Perspective

The 2017/18 flu season was 19 weeks long .

Currently, the CorVid-19 season has run for 12 weeks in the US (starting February 1) with over 53,000 deaths to date, and about 2000 more are added daily. Add in the projected death toll over the next 7 weeks and then make your comparison.

The flu season typically has abrupt peaks and valleys in the death toll from one month to the next. This pandemic has had a generally constant daily rise in the death toll and may or may not have peaked at this time.

Without context, numbers cannot tell the story.
 
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I'm starting to think there's different strands of this virus. The east coast seems to have the European strand. The west coast has the Asian strand. The other states have a different or similar strand. There maybe 2 to 8 different strands.
 

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I own a business and have not done a job since the 1st week of March I would love to get my men working again ...so I can make some money again mostly.....I had just finished a few big jobs in the few days preceeding the quarantine...submitted my bills....and there is no one working to process payables.... .but if you were to live in an area that has been hard hit, and hear about the roundabout ways people have been exposed and become sick I think you would agree that the Quarantine is the best for everyone...when it becomes absolutely necessary to go out and enter a store...one must have a mask, or you cannot go in...most are also wearing gloves ( which people just take off and throw on the ground in the parking lots or in their grocery carts) ...if someone is not wearing gloves in the store they get dirty looks......this is extremely inconvenient.....but with what is presently known, it is the best course of action to prevent unbridled spread of the disease....everyone stay safe and healthy
 

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TUDOR. Perhaps the context to the 2017 flu season statistic was that there were no daily reporting of any numbers. While the flu season may overlap years, the statistic only covered 2017.
MARK (LI). I do understand that many of the members of MTF reside in or near highly populated areas of the USA that are quite hard hit by this current virus. But there also those of us on MTF that are far from those areas that don't have quite the same impact from this virus. Florida, as a whole, has 30,000 cases with the majority at the far southern end of the state. My large rural county in the north has 13 cases with no one in the hospital and no deaths.

Went to Lowe's yesterday in another state and city. Place was quite full with perhaps 30% of everyone wearing some type of PPE. At the grocery store in town here on Friday, there was roughly the same amount wearing PPE. Both locations had the shelves fully stocked. At the auto/tractor parts store in town, no one was wearing any PPE. Saw contractors working on a store remodel. Even though I may be a high risk, I don't wear any PPE ever.
With my limited budget, I don't get out much and can only report what I see on those occasions that I do. I also don't watch or listen to any TV or radio programming that may influence me one way or another. Get my news from a variety of sources online both here in the USA and other places around the world.
 
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