[3macs1]

Is there just the two members that have one of these rare black horse units. Would love to see more pics and details from those that know the particulars or own these machines
Cheers
Joe

 

[3macs1]

Is there just the two members that have one of these rare black horse units. Would love to see more pics and details from those that know the particulars or own these machines
Cheers
Joe

Was really hoping there were other members here than owned one of theses so I could see some more pics and ask some detailed questions. I am closing a deal on one that is totally apart but I am hoping to restore it as close to original as I can
Cheers

 

[3macs1]

HI Mike
Even though all apart this is the only one I have even heard about up this way and if all goes as planned next weekend it will be home with me
I know it sounds crazy but I have a horse 1 and 3 working now. A couple of parts machines that I can make a horse 2 so add the u-haul I intend to do and the black horse and I will have a complete set
A couple of weeks ago I was talking to one of the Troy tech team on the old gl-4 gl-5 issue and he told me he has been there almost 40 years so I asked him about the u-haul and black horse. I was suprised but he knew a lot about both but told me by far the black horse should be done if I could as stock since it is truely a collectors piece by troy collectots with only 500 being made and said I would be suprised just how many have a stash of old troy tillers today
Cheers

 

[3macs1]

Not to change the subject, but what did they have to say about the oil issue or do you have that in another thread?

Well I will try my best to share this experience which it was IMO
Ok first contact was with Troy support in canada who basically gave me the standard response

What lubricant should be used in the tiller transmission case?


In the past the rule was: For partial fill-ups (a few ounces or less) use SAE 140, SAE 85W-140 or SAE 80W-90 weight gear oil with an API rating of GL-4 or GL-5. For full replacement use SAE 140 or SAE 85W-140 gear oil with an API rating of GL-4 only.

We have also found that 80W-90 oil with an API rating of GL-1 is acceptable for both partial and full replacement of tiller gear oils.


I told them this was at least 15 year old and today it is impossible for me to find any gl-4 in canada plus why do you suppy your new machines with 85w140 gl5
They had no clue what I was talking about even after an escallation to a supervisor

So I said thank you I will call the US. Which was an issue for me since they will only talk to US customers. So my work around for that was to ask my brother for his cell phone and WV zip since he was here for xmas
First lady I spoke to was not 100% sure other than pretty much the same response I got in canada and said if you hold on I will transfer you to one of our sr. staff

The guy on the phone this time like me loved to talk troy tillers especially old ones and when I told him I was trying to fix an old u-haul model with the robin engine and hoped to buy a black horse it was like I hit a soft spot

Ok what he said was yes the new troy were coming with 85w140gl5 but syn
Most gl-5 made today are yellow metal safe and would be fine but be sure the gl5 used says that
I told him about the tillers I sold last year and was now worried that the lucus gl5 would damage them
He said I and the people would be dead before any significant break down would be experienced since it mainly will effect synchros,clutches and wet brakes none of which a troy tiller has
Also the tiller doesn't run fast enough or hot enough to really see any immediate break down but it could over many many years

He said if it was him overhauling that black horse he would source some gl4 somewhere since that machine has a chance of being around for another 40 years with a lot of non use
Also said the gl-1 people buy is not really a gl-1 any more since it is never tested now and most are just gl-4 which is fine

So I ended up ordering two gallons of crc sl24238 gl-4 for the u-haul and black horse and will keep using gl5 for the rest of the tillers
Why because it cost me $70.00 a gallon to get that gl-4 from the us

Not sure if I helped here or just made it more confusing

Cheers

 

[3macs1]

I also heard pretty much the same concerning it requiring a lot of heat to really have an effect on the yellow metal. Years ago I bought GL-1 oil from McMaster Carr and more recently found GL-1 at a local hardware store made by the Warren Oil Company Inc (Warren Oil Company, LLC - World Class Lubricants - Motor Oil, Transmission Fluid, Antifreeze, Greases, and more!). I buy their SAE 90W and SAE 140W. I have also seen GL-1 at Tractor Supply labeled for the early Ford Ferguson tractors. Is there a TSC near you?

No nothing like that here. I could not even find gl-4 to buy let alone gl-1
makes it hard and real expensive to keep old gear running
Cheers

 

[3macs1]

Is buying from McMaster Carr expensive for you?

Hi
It is about a year now I checked with them and they said

Yes, they still ship to existing clients only in canada, and are willing to ship to new clients if you buy enough.

Enough was $500 US

Ahhh just makes it part of the challenge trying to overhaul these old tillers and get parts etc up here
I buy what I can off e-bay, have one Mtd dealer in ontario that will get me some stuff but oil was an issue But only for the cost of it
I can order it now off e-bay but it is like $70 US a gallon by the time I get it
I was getting used troy tiller parts through my brother in West virginia last year from e-bay sellers that would not ship to canada but I took care of that last year by buying probally three parts machines here
Even tines from K&D they will ship to me but I am looking at $250 a set by the time they arrive
It sucks
Cheers

 

[3macs1]

That is ridiculous!

Sure is. Was never like that here. Years ago we were doing well mining coal and every power transmission distributor, bearing manufacturer you could name was set up here which huge inventories. Could get what ever we needed and at great prices Then 17 years ago they closed the mines and with in 3 years poof these companies were gone
I know my brother alone went from two large shipments a month out of west virginia to canada to maybe one a year now
So after that I got what I needed on e-bay and had it shipped usps, then about 6 years ago it seemed they no longer wanted to handle international shipments and their rates went up like 4 times to the extent we can no longer ship from the US
Like $60.25 US to ship that row marker to me is nuts when only a few years ago probally 20 would have done it. I love buying made in USA but cannot afford to ship it
Cheers

 

[3macs1]

Interesting maybe if I land this one here I can get it overhauled under warranty

 

[3macs1]

One can only imagine how expensive it must be, if you can even find a willing shipping company, to transport oil across town, let alone across the border.

I know we've discussed this in another thread in the past, but NAPA (and others) carry the GL-4 oil. The problem is getting it to you for anything less than an arm and a leg. Good to know that the factory doesn't see the risk others have concluded over the years.

Mike

Unfortunately napa here even thought they are just a few miles down the road looked at me like I had three heads when I asked for gl-4. Even had a napa part number for it and they could not use it here
Cheers

 

[3macs1]

Well, now I know what to smuggle into Canada on my next trip north. Seriously, I am amazed (and saddened)that it is so hard to get specialty lubricants

Lubes are just a small part of it Joe. Hard to get a lot of stuff up here I am also a shotgun guy and reloading crazy how hard it is to get components and gun parts
Stuff we do find is always way way over priced
Cheers

 

[3macs1]

You need a friend across the border. Would that not make it somewhat cheaper or is there a huge import fee? I had a fellow who bought some Rototiller parts from me who lived in Canada and to send it to him in Canada it would have been $40 more. He had a son across the border and only ask that I write a detailed bill of sale for him to take it across the border after picking it up from his son.

Or live closer myself. I have two brothers state side one in Ohio and one in west virginia but lets just say I have to be on my last hope before I would ask either to help me with stuff like this
Basically the way it works now I buy something state side I have to add 30% just to get US dollars, then they ship which is crazy money for even the smallest items
Customs get it and charges $10 to inspect, if not made in the USA I pay duties from whatever 7% to maybe 15%, then I pay 15% tax on the total value in canadian dollars including the fees and shipping
so a gallon of oil that I bought for 24.00 US cost me $70 US ib this case by the time it hit my door
Cheers

 

[3macs1]

Well I got my black horse home this weekend only one I have ever seen up this way I think
She is all a part and I mean all apart including the two gearboxes which will be a challenge for me to get back together but I will with the right drawings
The guy that had it intended to do it exactly as it was originally supplied so the parts he finished are as new all bead blasted, primed and professionally sprayed with automotive paint and I will have to do the same I guess with what is not done and that will be costly for me. From looking at the gearbox gears etc I think that was the only reason they were totally stripped down for cleaning and paint
I think I have all of the main parts but will be buying most bearings, seals, fasteners, gaskets and shims
Will probally start it in the fall
I was also wrong when I posted her serial number earlier it is actually 2399 with the al tag that says Dean Leith jr silver anniversary signature Model # 2399
Cheers

 

[3macs1]

If you have the transmission manual which is available on this forum, it will be fairly easy. I had one completely disassembled and put it back together.

Ahh I see it now. I didnot know that was there. Thanks for pointing that out. Greatly appreciated
Kind Regards
Joe

 

[3macs1]

Keep us posted on your progress and what you find different from other T-B Horses.

Will do but it will be probally late summer early fall before I get at it. i don't think it is too much different at all from looking so far but I have not got deep yet. Now the u-haul she is a unique animal and I will share what i noticed all ready

On the black horse
Stainless motor mount pins and tapped for grease fittings there
All the painted parts were bare metal just painted black except the bumper guard was red and they sprayed the black over it
The cover over the tines is a different profile stamping and the rims are factory drilled for wheel weights which I don't think is standard on others of this year

That is it so far
Cheers

Oh yes everything I have read on these said they came with special hardened tines so I was expecting a good set to use since they were originals. Well if they were special I would not want to see the regular ones since I have never seen a set worn down that low on a machine and they were two hole tines so factory I would say

 

[3macs1]

I guess it really depends on the soil. Didn't an earlier poster say he still has the originals on his tiller?

Yes he did as well as others have. Soil or someone knew what they were at one time and did an exchange prior to selling the machine. Don't know what it is but here I am finding many guys have at least two machines
and as we age now selling off one I know the u-hauls had them also and funny how one I got is stripped clean but they left the tine housings and the other still has a set on it and not that bad and I can just imagine the hours and rocks that machine seen
My only experience with them is the wife's uncle has a set on his roughly 90 machine and the older guy across the road has a set on his and both have tilled large plots for many years and they are still in good shape
That is why I was hoping with three machines here I would get a couple of sets but it was not to be
Those KD's I put on last year and they were not the hard hat ones seen a lot of rocks and look new so they will be my future replacements on any machines
Cheers

 

[3macs1]

I got some info from a former Garden Way employee who was in marketing when the Black Horse was made. He called it a "styling and marketing exercise". He mentioned that a Hilller/Furrower and plastic wheel weight shells came with it.

U-Haul tiller: "The U-Haul folks prevented any accidents in reverse by the simple expedient of removing the reverse disc. They also wanted to use the Wisconsin robin engine for conformity with their inventory. That was a sweet little engine, but so light weight that the weight and balance of the horse was not very happy. And then, there was the ugly orange color.
I think things worked out better than we feared, as I don't recall spending any time in court on injury lawsuits. Not sure how many people came away with doubts about the mythical Troy built. And, there were some outlets that rented it with the times on it backwards. I can only imagine the amount of satisfaction by the user." Choppy Wicker

Thanks for the information is is greatly appreciated. On the black horse from a quick inspection I agree 100% it seems just to be paint and decals with a few extras.
There is a black hiller in the batch and a set of plastic wheel weights so now I know for sure what machine they are for

The u-haul now seems to be a lot more than paint. I have never lifted a engine of that size so light in fact I almost dropped the first one after taking the kolar to the truck first I was expecting a lot of weight and there was almost nothing
I will list what I have seen so far on the u-haul below
Cheers

 

[3macs1]

Choppy was their marketing guy. It was his job to research and develope new ideas. Take a look at the link below.
Marketing Strategy Consultant Albany NY develop small business growth - Crazy Ideas He said that after the 3rd try the company lawyers got wind of what he was doing and put a stop to it. The idea was to have this land in a field and be ready to till. It took three tries to get the balance right so it would not just tumble. The tiller was non-functional (internals removed to lighten it).
On my last trip to Troy I was able to meet Choppy Wicker. Quite an interesting person and I saw some of his ideas in experimental stage at his place.

Thanks for sharing. He is interesting for sure and I would stay a blast to work with

Well I am here sitting waiting not to use a tiller but a *** snowblower again
Yes we got about a foot of snow last night and it still has not stopped so much for spring here
Hope I can get the snowblower out LOL with all the tiller junk some would say I piled in front of them
take care
Joe

 

[3macs1]

There you go guys
Nice machine $1400 buy it now on e-bay

Troy-Bilt Horse Rototiller 'Dean Leith Jr.' 25th Anniversary | eBay

 

[3macs1]

I used my Troy Horse commercially for about 8 years in northern NJ and northeast PA back in the 1980's. Now the location I mentioned is important, because we only have just enough dirt to fill in the spaces between the rocks. I think my machine is currently wearing it's fifth set of tines. But I would often till 6 to 8 gardens a day on weekends all spring long, with many being new gardens where I had to bust up the sod and packed earth. The Horse model is one of those rare machines that actually did everything that the manufacturer claimed it would do. And that machine paid for itself many times over.

And I'm making a list of stuff to bring with me if I travel to Nova Scotia
1. case of gear oil
2. shotshell wads
3. lead shot
4. Hoppes #9 gun cleaner
5. perogies (for my cousin in Maine)

Ok Joe, Now you are spooking me out. If this list is directed at me. Would love to buy some sae 140 gl1 gear oil and I am a huge shotshell reloader but have lots of lead, wads and hoppes but there are many here having trouble finding components
On the perogies and I kid you not I made a batch monday from scratch for my girls here
My dad was american from west virginia but Mom is ukrainan and we grew up on them
*** I have to start checking for cameras here LOL