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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Do you you have a fuse holder?
Yeah, in the switch panel bucket, I checked it, fuse is fine. There is 12.5V at the solenoid on 'Start'. I'm going to work on it some later this afternoon, will test the solenoid then and start tracing ground then.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
I'm back...boy this grass grows fast. Now I've paid the lawn dudes twice...totally against my value-conscious (also known as 'cheap') nature.

Anyway, it looks like someone already installed the relay -- it looks like the JD version since it doesn't have an inline fuse which I'll maybe add later. But for now here's the rundown:

1) battery power to starter, engine cranks.
2) Red wire to relay and relay connection: battery voltage.
3) Jump solenoid poles - no crank, just click
4) Voltage at the short wire between solenoid and starter with key on 'Start': inconsistent voltage, nowhere near 12V.

So since it already has the relay kit and won't crank when jumped across the solenoid poles, I'd say this looks like a dead solenoid, I don't see how it could be a ground connection issue anywhere else. The solenoid gets battery voltage but doesn't push it to the starter when the key is turned. I disconnected and cleaned up the power cable to the solenoid and that cable is pushing 12V, so I don't see what else it could be.

The JD dealer quoted me around $85 for this one:

Amazon.com: John Deere Original Equipment Starter Solenoid #AM102577: Garden & Outdoor

Which is more or less the same price everywhere on the net, and if it's just a matter of a few bucks, I'll get it at the dealer.

There's also this aftermarket starter/solenoid which is supposed to be a drop-in replacement for the OEM MIA13172 starter/solenoid pair, which the dealer sells for about $380.

Starter For Kohler 2409801 2509808 2509809 2509811 John Deere

Does anyone have any experience with this starter/solenoid unit or with a STX38 yellow deck solenoid that's cheaper than the $85 for the OEM AM102577? I've seen some knockoffs that claim to fit the STX38 but with all the black deck/yellow deck shenanigans you never know if it's going to fit.

I know... this is a lot of work just to save a few bucks. But like I said, I own, ride and wrench on older motorcycles (1994's to be exact, same year as this STX38) so I'm used to looking for aftermarket workarounds for ridiculous dealer OEM prices.

Thanks for any help...

Van
 

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Does the solenoid engage and the starter turn when you jump the posts on the solenoid?

Never mind, read your post again. I am going to surmise that you could get an aftermarket solenoid and bypass the original. Should be able to get by with $15 or $20

 

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I MAY possibly have one out in my shed...but it is pouring out and I have to be on a job site in the morning...I will be able to check and let you know if I have it by around 2 or 3 ....if I have it..it is yours...I will let you know
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Does the solenoid engage and the starter turn when you jump the posts on the solenoid?

Never mind, read your post again. I am going to surmise that you could get an aftermarket solenoid and bypass the original. Should be able to get by with $15 or $20

Hmm...looks like the linked unit is the same part that JD sells for $13 -- Stens makes a version also on Amazon that doesn't get very good reviews so if I'm going to go this route I might as well just get it from the JD dealer. It's a universal solenoid so I don't know what mods I'd have to make to mount it. I guess I could design and 3D print some kind of adapter... Brad, have you used this universal-type solenoid on other tractors?
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
I MAY possibly have one out in my shed...but it is pouring out and I have to be on a job site in the morning...I will be able to check and let you know if I have it by around 2 or 3 ....if I have it..it is yours...I will let you know
If you do have one and it's in working condition I'd be happy to take it off your hands if you're sure you won't be needing it. I'll pay the shipping of course. Let me know as soon as you get a minute to look for it. Need to get this done asap since I still don't know if the PTO clutch works and need to get it running to find out, and the danged grass won't stop growing.
 

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If you have the key in the on position and hit the PTO switch....you should hear it clearly click...you should also hear the solenoid on the carb, but the PTO is louder
I did get out to my shed....I have a starter....but not the solenoid...sorry....if you need the starter let me know
 

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Hmm...looks like the linked unit is the same part that JD sells for $13 -- Stens makes a version also on Amazon that doesn't get very good reviews so if I'm going to go this route I might as well just get it from the JD dealer. It's a universal solenoid so I don't know what mods I'd have to make to mount it. I guess I could design and 3D print some kind of adapter... Brad, have you used this universal-type solenoid on other tractors?
@MARK (LI) read along and double check my suggestions. Want to make sure I'm leading him right.

I just thought about this for a minute and would rather suggest you watch this video:


Now, I'd seen this previously and that is what I was thinking when I suggested a second solenoid. But, your setup needs the solenoid not only to energize the starter but possibly to engage it as well. But the task that Teryl is performing looks like your setup (or very similar).

And, I would certainly go with the local JD dealers item. Local guy and you don't have to wait for it to come in. Good price!


**Edit--@Mark LI :If he connects the battery cable from the battery right to the starter and the engine cranks, could he not:

Mount the aftermarket solenoid someplace convenient and kind of local to current solenoid, tho not necessary. Take trigger wire off current solenoid and put on new solenoid. Take a short heavy cable from one side of new solenoid and put on post of old solenoid where starter is connected. Take the heavy cable that runs from the battery to the old solenoid and put on the new solenoid. As far as all the smaller wires/cables on the old solenoid's large post, you can move to the new solenoid. Basically those should be: 1, wire that energizes the starter assist relay, and 2, wire from the charging system that charges voltage back to the battery via the heavy red cable on the solenoid.

Now, I have read this thread but just to verify, if you put 12v from the battery to the SMALL trigger wire terminal on the current solenoid, you get nothing?
 

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I don't know, in reading your post again from top to bottom, I'd start with the cheap (free) things first.

When turning the key, tap lightly the relay in the starter assist relay. Then, take 12v right from the battery to the small tab on the current solenoid and see what happens (be careful that you don't have blades engaged or tractor in gear cuz if it starts there will be no safeties to protect it from moving/mowing).

With the symptoms and results as stated not sure if I'm sold on the issue being a bad solenoid. @MARK (LI), thoughts?
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
I don't know, in reading your post again from top to bottom, I'd start with the cheap (free) things first.

When turning the key, tap lightly the relay in the starter assist relay. Then, take 12v right from the battery to the small tab on the current solenoid and see what happens (be careful that you don't have blades engaged or tractor in gear cuz if it starts there will be no safeties to protect it from moving/mowing).

With the symptoms and results as stated not sure if I'm sold on the issue being a bad solenoid. @MARK (LI), thoughts?
I'm going to take a good long look at the thing again today and will test the small tab on the solenoid. It seems strange to me too that this solenoid thing just kicked up after the new PTO clutch install. Having said that, starting has always been iffy as long as I've had this thing and sometimes I've had to trickle-charge it overnight to get enough power to crank it enough to start. Without the battery fully charged, the starter turns but hasn't always had enough juice to turn over with enough conviction to fire up the engine. Will get back to you later this afternoon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
@MARK (LI) read along and double check my suggestions. Want to make sure I'm leading him right.

I just thought about this for a minute and would rather suggest you watch this video:


Now, I'd seen this previously and that is what I was thinking when I suggested a second solenoid. But, your setup needs the solenoid not only to energize the starter but possibly to engage it as well. But the task that Teryl is performing looks like your setup (or very similar).

And, I would certainly go with the local JD dealers item. Local guy and you don't have to wait for it to come in. Good price!


**Edit--@Mark LI :If he connects the battery cable from the battery right to the starter and the engine cranks, could he not:

Mount the aftermarket solenoid someplace convenient and kind of local to current solenoid, tho not necessary. Take trigger wire off current solenoid and put on new solenoid. Take a short heavy cable from one side of new solenoid and put on post of old solenoid where starter is connected. Take the heavy cable that runs from the battery to the old solenoid and put on the new solenoid. As far as all the smaller wires/cables on the old solenoid's large post, you can move to the new solenoid. Basically those should be: 1, wire that energizes the starter assist relay, and 2, wire from the charging system that charges voltage back to the battery via the heavy red cable on the solenoid.

Now, I have read this thread but just to verify, if you put 12v from the battery to the SMALL trigger wire terminal on the current solenoid, you get nothing?
OK, I see what he's doing. Not sure I want to go that route...I'm cheap but that's a lot of hassle and for $60 more bucks I get the JD OEM STX38 solenoid and they'll stand behind it. Also, I think it's good to buy stuff from the JD dealer occasionally so they don't start flipping you off when you come in with questions. I've seen that guy Taryn. Those teeth drive me nuts. He'd get a lot more views with his regular teeth...or who knows maybe they're even more rotten than those fake ones.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
And if things weren't bad enough, the Deere dealer says they don't sell the original AM102577 anymore and it's been substituted with the MIA13172 which costs over $160. Not gonna happen, now way in ****. There are people online who say they're selling the OEM AM102577 but then if I pay the $90 and they ship me aftermarket garbage how furious will I be?

I'm gonna test out this solenoid thoroughly and if it does need replacement we should start a new thread with Taryn's thing, I'm definitely not going to be the last person needing an STX38 solenoid so that info should be shared.
 

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Motor, you've got a couple possibilities here! Bad contacts "someplace" between battery and solenoid, bad solenoid (probably contacts), bad cable to starter, or bad starter!
I didn't go back through the entire post, but I think (??) Mark mentioned the start relay kit for the solenoid. This would give you full battery voltage & amperage to the solenoid. A quick check is a temporary wire from battery to existing solenoid. If engine cranks, solenoid contacts are OK. If it doesn't, cold be bad connection from solenoid to starter. From your pic, I can't see where/how solenoid connects to starter motor. If possible, connect jumper cable from battery to starter motor and see if it will turn over. If not, bad starter. Bob
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Motor, you've got a couple possibilities here! Bad contacts "someplace" between battery and solenoid, bad solenoid (probably contacts), bad cable to starter, or bad starter!
I didn't go back through the entire post, but I think (??) Mark mentioned the start relay kit for the solenoid. This would give you full battery voltage & amperage to the solenoid. A quick check is a temporary wire from battery to existing solenoid. If engine cranks, solenoid contacts are OK. If it doesn't, cold be bad connection from solenoid to starter. From your pic, I can't see where/how solenoid connects to starter motor. If possible, connect jumper cable from battery to starter motor and see if it will turn over. If not, bad starter. Bob
Hey Bob thanks for joining the party, here's the status, I'm working on it now.

First, there is already a relay installed, it looks like it was probably installed by the dealer service tech ages ago by the original owner.


I've coonfirmed these diagnostics just now:

1) Turn key to Start - solenoid clicks but starter doesn't engage.

2) Jump from battery positive to starter - starter spins.

3) Voltage at spade terminal on solenoid key is turned to Start: 12.45V.

4) Voltage at solenoid terminal where the red lead from the relay connects: 12.45V.

5) Jump from battery positive to small tab on solenoid (as directed by Brad earlier today) - clicks loudly but doesn't engage the starter.

6) Voltage at starter connection coming from solenoid when key turned to Start: initially about 10V but then immediately drops to less than 1V.

So I think considering 3) and 4) it's clear that the solenoid is getting power both from the relay and the switch, and considering 6) it's clear that the starter isn't getting that power from the solenoid. So, what other explanation is there than the solenoid is toast?

.
 

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OK.....so without going through all the posts ...have you listened for the PTO to click on?.....there is another guy @Whirly ...who has had more of these than I have, and knows more about them...kind of hoping he see the thread and jumps in, too.

Can you post a picture of the base of the starter...you say there is a starter assist relay.....I would like to take a lok at how that is wired in.....also want to point out that...that arrangement becomes necessary as a result of oxidation on wire connections...so you could disconnect and wire brush every connection you can lay your eyes on and reconnect them
 
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