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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Tearing down the 444 to restore and found that someone had poured epoxie where the retaining nut should be. Can't tell why, as the entire top of the thing is covered with epoxie. I can't figure how to get it out, except for heat, which will ruin the wheel and I still might not be able to get it off. The only other solutions I see is cutting the shaft and pulling it out that way, or I can cut the hub of the wheel. Problem with cutting the wheel is that the top of the shaft might be why the thing is epoxied in the first. My back is bothering me today, so I can't get under the tractor to see if I can just remove the gear from the shaft and pull it out that way.

Any suggestions? Anyone have a shaft, wheel and gear?

Nick
 

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IIRC the pinion gear is welded to the shaft, SOP is remove steering wheel and extract shaft from BOTTOM of tractor. So.. methinks that s. wheel has to come off.
 

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Are you sure yours has a retaining nut and not the pin through the wheel and shaft? Later 444s had that version and the top of the wheel is filled with plastic, sort of looks like it is filled, but is actually molded that way?

If it is filled, I would drill it out, using a hole saw to cut the large diameter then smaller to clean it out to where a rotary file in a drill or die grinder could get the remainder.
 

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If you had to cut the shaft, you might be able to get away with some sort of roll pin secured union fitting, but that may compromise strength. I'd think this is the last resort though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I am not going to cut it no matter what. I will live with it and paint the shaft while it is still on the tractor if I have to. I do have the shaft with the pin in it. Are you saying that if I pull the pin, and use a puller, it should come off. Isn't there a retaining nut on the tome of it? I had a devil of a time getting the wheel off my Ford LGT165, but with the right tools, you can do most anything. thanks for the quick replies.
Nick
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
What year is this tractor? That's the issue.

From the serial number, I believe it is a 1981.

I just went out and looked at it and there is a pin in it. I sprayed it with LW and used a drift pin trying to drive it out. It moved a bit so I sprayed it and will try again. This is usually a several day event so we will see what happens. Also ran a small drill bit through to allow the LW to penetrate. The hole was clogged. If all else fails, I will just drill out the pin and use the next size pin to secure it later.

Nick
 

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km3h -

This is the exact same setup I dealt with on my 446 (pinned wheel). It's a bear to remove, but not impossible.

You have to drill out the molded plastic in the center of the hub, that is "hiding" the top of the steering shaft and the inner diameter of the metal cup that the shaft slides into. If you can get the wheel off, you'll also get the opportunity to replace the bushings at both the top and bottom of the steering shaft, which will keep the shaft stay nice and true, when the wheel is turned. Both bushings on mine were shot, so it was an added bonus on getting the steering wheel off.

I will post pictures of what I used when I get home from work.
 

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If it is an 81, then the steering wheel was held on only by the spring-pin that is inserted in the cross-drilled hole. The end of the shaft is plain...no threads, no nut. The epoxy can be drilled with a 1/2" bit ...repeatedly until the bulk of it is removed to the point where a hammer and chisel can be used to remove the balance.

However, the epoxy shouldn't be holding anything. To remove this wheel, you need a bearing puller plus a second puller to pull on the first puller. We just went through all of this in another recent thread. But first you need to make sure the cross-pin is not there. You need a drive pin punch of the correct diameter to move it effectively. If you don't use one of those then you run the risk of damaging the pin and making it nearly impossible to remove.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks guys I appreciate it. It was the photos of my Ford that helped on the other thread I do have both a big heavy duty puller and the smaller bearing puller, to go under the wheel. When removing the wheel from the Ford, I actually bent the bolts going through the smaller puller. Just what is that epoxy there for, anyone know?

Nick
 

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km3h -

Not saying that you don't have an epoxy filled hub (possibly someone drilled before then re-filled it), but my wheel is molded out of a bakelite/plastic material with the hub completely molded around the steel cup within the wheel. It's this steel center that slides onto the steering shaft. With the pin attached steering wheels, the only way to see the top of the steering shaft is to drill down through the plastic in the hub center of the wheel, to the top of the steering shaft.

Your set-up will work as what I used includes likely the same components.

OTC 1122 Bearing Splitter (available at Graingers)
Craftsman Steering Wheel Puller 41833 (looks like what you have, I liked it mostly for the strength of the puller base)
4 - 1/2" bolts to reach the bearing splitter (the bolts included in the wheel puller are not long enough)

First, drive out the 1/4" roll pin with an appropriate pin punch. It will take several good blows to break the bond. The driver I had was only long enough to get it halfway through (fairly long pin). I used a 1/4" steel rod to drive it the rest of the way out. The pin I removed was pretty corroded for a good part of it's length, altho some of it "cleaned off" as it was driven out. See pics below -




Next, drill out the plastic in the center of the hub face, after you have carefully removed the center cap. Below is a view of the drilled hole which is probably 3/8" deep before you find the top of the steering shaft. I "hogged out the hole a little so I could also see the steel sleeve. If you look closely, you can see the corrosion and pitting in the sleeve of the removed wheel (sorry, the sleeve is a little blurry).



Lift the wheel as high as you can (it's likely dropped a little due to bushing wear) and install the bearing splitter with the flat face against the bottom of the wheel. Evenly adjust the splitter nuts to draw the two halves together to the point that you can start both bolts into the splitter faces. You want to draw them in as far as possible (with the sides of the bolts tight against the wheel hub), so the splitter edges can rest against the metal insert on the underside of the wheel. You won't be able to draw them together as far as you could with your oval Ford wheel, since the Case wheel hub is round, but there should still be plenty on contact area (see the view of the bottom of the removed wheel, along with the splitter/steel insert contact area).



The above steering wheel puller has one other advantage. The threaded rod is 1/2" diameter, which makes it a good choice to drive out the steering shaft (which is 5/8" diameter). My other pullers had threaded rods that were too large. One problem with the puller (for this job) is that the nice swivel base it had was too large, therefore I cut it off (hated to do this to a perfectly good tool). See below -


After that, assemble with the previously installed bearing splitter and bolts (see below). Looks very similar to what you used on your Ford wheel.


Make sure that the puller bolt will find the center of the steering shaft before continuing. If you didn't see the same amount of steering shaft face and wheel hub sleeve edge when looking down through the drilled hole in the wheel hub, it's likely been drilled off center and the drilled hole will only guide the threaded rod onto the top edge of the hub sleeve. You want to avoid damaging/scarring this sleeve as the fit is close to an "end to end" fit, with not much clearance between the sleeve and the shaft.

Tighten very tight with a 1/2" drive ratchet to make sure everything looks centered. Whack down on the top of the puller bolt a couple of times, retighten the puller. Repeat until it won't tighten anymore. Finally, don't expect it to release and pull off right away. I tightened the mutha out of that puller and I could easily still slide that 1/4" rod I used to help drive out the roll pin, completely throught the hub and shaft. Hadn't budged even a fraction of an inch!

I then sprayed liberal amounts of PB Blaster down in the top of the drilled hole and walked away. Did this two nights in a row, then broke out the impact driver on the third night. Set the driver to the lowest "1" setting to hammer the puller bolt a little. Increased it to "2" and I started to see the puller bolt start to walk a little. Stopped, then hit it again with the driver and the bolt slowly rotated, then sped up as it freed the wheel.

I did a quick visual inspection on the steel insert after removing the wheel and found it to be perfectly intact and the wheel undamaged.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
km3h -

Not saying that you don't have an epoxy filled hub (possibly someone drilled before then re-filled it), but my wheel is molded out of a bakelite/plastic material with the hub completely molded around the steel cup within the wheel. It's this steel center that slides onto the steering shaft. With the pin attached steering wheels, the only way to see the top of the steering shaft is to drill down through the plastic in the hub center of the wheel, to the top of the steering shaft.

Your set-up will work as what I used includes likely the same components.

OTC 1122 Bearing Splitter (available at Graingers)
Craftsman Steering Wheel Puller 41833 (looks like what you have, I liked it mostly for the strength of the puller base)
4 - 1/2" bolts to reach the bearing splitter (the bolts included in the wheel puller are not long enough)

First, drive out the 1/4" roll pin with an appropriate pin punch. It will take several good blows to break the bond. The driver I had was only long enough to get it halfway through (fairly long pin). I used a 1/4" steel rod to drive it the rest of the way out. The pin I removed was pretty corroded for a good part of it's length, altho some of it "cleaned off" as it was driven out. See pics below -




Next, drill out the plastic in the center of the hub face, after you have carefully removed the center cap. Below is a view of the drilled hole which is probably 3/8" deep before you find the top of the steering shaft. I "hogged out the hole a little so I could also see the steel sleeve. If you look closely, you can see the corrosion and pitting in the sleeve of the removed wheel (sorry, the sleeve is a little blurry).



Lift the wheel as high as you can (it's likely dropped a little due to bushing wear) and install the bearing splitter with the flat face against the bottom of the wheel. Evenly adjust the splitter nuts to draw the two halves together to the point that you can start both bolts into the splitter faces. You want to draw them in as far as possible (with the sides of the bolts tight against the wheel hub), so the splitter edges can rest against the metal insert on the underside of the wheel. You won't be able to draw them together as far as you could with your oval Ford wheel, since the Case wheel hub is round, but there should still be plenty on contact area (see the view of the bottom of the removed wheel, along with the splitter/steel insert contact area).



The above steering wheel puller has one other advantage. The threaded rod is 1/2" diameter, which makes it a good choice to drive out the steering shaft (which is 5/8" diameter). My other pullers had threaded rods that were too large. One problem with the puller (for this job) is that the nice swivel base it had was too large, therefore I cut it off (hated to do this to a perfectly good tool). See below -


After that, assemble with the previously installed bearing splitter and bolts (see below). Looks very similar to what you used on your Ford wheel.


Make sure that the puller bolt will find the center of the steering shaft before continuing. If you didn't see the same amount of steering shaft face and wheel hub sleeve edge when looking down through the drilled hole in the wheel hub, it's likely been drilled off center and the drilled hole will only guide the threaded rod onto the top edge of the hub sleeve. You want to avoid damaging/scarring this sleeve as the fit is close to an "end to end" fit, with not much clearance between the sleeve and the shaft.

Tighten very tight with a 1/2" drive ratchet to make sure everything looks centered. Whack down on the top of the puller bolt a couple of times, retighten the puller. Repeat until it won't tighten anymore. Finally, don't expect it to release and pull off right away. I tightened the mutha out of that puller and I could easily still slide that 1/4" rod I used to help drive out the roll pin, completely throught the hub and shaft. Hadn't budged even a fraction of an inch!

I then sprayed liberal amounts of PB Blaster down in the top of the drilled hole and walked away. Did this two nights in a row, then broke out the impact driver on the third night. Set the driver to the lowest "1" setting to hammer the puller bolt a little. Increased it to "2" and I started to see the puller bolt start to walk a little. Stopped, then hit it again with the driver and the bolt slowly rotated, then sped up as it freed the wheel.

I did a quick visual inspection on the steel insert after removing the wheel and found it to be perfectly intact and the wheel undamaged.
Looks to me like you are or were a teacher. Your narrative as to how you accomplished this, is very clear and leaves nothing to question.

On my first attempt to remove the pin, I applied a liberal amount of Liquid wrench and used what I always called a drift pin to drive it out. I knew it would not come out easily, so I put more LW in it and walked away.

Tomorrow I will us an impact driver on it and see what happens.that's the easy part. Time is on my side and I have plenty of it as I am retired.

When I first removed the cap on the wheel I was very surprised to not see a steel rod with a retaining nut. threw me through a loop. Now after I get it off, and am ready to put it back together, I wonder if I need to fill it back up again with epoxy or whatever that is in there?

Thank you very much for the attention to detail in your reply. I have said it before and will probably say it again, this really is the friendliest forum on the Internet. Never once have I asked a question about any of my tractors, that I have not gotten friendly answers.

Nick
 

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Wow those pictures look familiar. I just did that about 4 months ago.
This should be a sticky as it seems to be a common question. Especially with the good job drhulv did on explaining it. :fing32:
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I agree. This really should be a Sticky. Please Mr. Monitor, make this a sticky.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Well I drilled out the epoxy, and can see metal under it. On the other hand, I am not having much luck with the retaining pin in the side of the shaft. Used an impact driver and did my best with a drift pin, but it is not moving. Next step is to just drill it out and be done with it. soaked the devil out of it with LW and kept hitting it with hammer. Lost patience and came inside for a rest. It is hot outside. Going to make sure I put a big air conditioner in that shop before next summer. Would just go buy one now, but a neighbor says to wait and he will be able to get a big one from where he works.

My daughter bought a new TV and brought me her old one. It is a really big 5 year old tube set with a digital tuner. I think it is either 23 or 37 inches. Weighs a ton. Going to build a platform for it close to the ceiling in a corner. Already have a refrigerator filled with suds, so I am getting pretty comfortable out there. Also have a lap top with wireless connection so I can browse the Internet when I need parts. Place is more like home every day. Wife asked me yesterday if I just wanted to move my things out there. Told her I just might do that and she got her U know what up in the air. Came in later took a shower and told her I loved her. Everything is back to normal now.
 

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I have been following this thread and the write up by drhulv is top notch. I don't own, have owned, or even run any Case tractors, but the narrative and the photos are great.

If you gentlemen would like for this thread to be a sticky, would any of you have any objections to make his post a sticky?

If this is the general consensus, would one of you mind posting the exact models, besides the 446, if any, that this is applicable to so that I can make the title reflect this?

Let me know and I will see to it that this becomes a sticky.
 

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You need someone to hold another hammer to the back of the steering shaft when you beating on the roll pin... It make a big difference...
 

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I have been following this thread and the write up by drhulv is top notch. I don't own, have owned, or even run any Case tractors, but the narrative and the photos are great.

If you gentlemen would like for this thread to be a sticky, would any of you have any objections to make his post a sticky?

If this is the general consensus, would one of you mind posting the exact models, besides the 446, if any, that this is applicable to so that I can make the title reflect this?

Let me know and I will see to it that this becomes a sticky.
DJ...
I agree that a sticky would be a good idea. However, I think that ONLY the good doctor's photos and narrative should be in that sticky and it should be LOCKED so that no one can post to it. Delete all the other posts. If anyone has questions, then they can start their own thread and ask them.

The instructions given by the doctor are not applicable to any particular model/s ONLY. In the early years, Case used a spline-style steering shaft and wheel, held on by a nut. This was followed by the use of a half-moon or Woodruff key arrangement in the 70's which was also secured by a nut. This was abandoned in favor of the cross-drilled spring pin steering wheel. The removal method outlined by the doctor pretty much applies to all three types of steering wheels once either the nut or the cross-pin has been removed. The earlier wheels were discontinued and the cross-pin wheel was often retro-fitted onto the earlier shafts. In addition, steering gears did wear out and they are welded to the steering shaft. When a new gear/shaft was needed and only the cross-drilled model was available then that's what you ended up with, along with a new steering wheel.

All of this means that you cannot say to a certainty that a particular year/model will have one of the earlier types of shaft/wheel still in place. Either part may have been replaced at some point. That's the way it is when dealing with tractors that are up to 45 years old.

If you feel it necessary to add clarification to the sticky, then feel free to edit the above and include it as a follower to the doctor's post.
 

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The locked single post sticky is exactly what I had in mind.

I am not going to delete any posts, just copy his post into a thread of its own and make it sticky.

I'll give it shot and see how it turns out.

Thanks for the feedback Castoff.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I think that is a great idea. Most of this applies to the removal of steering wheels on various other brands of tractors. I know that after I get the pin out of mine, I will use the same method of getting the wheel itself off, as I did on my Ford 165, which is exactly as described by Doc.

Nick
 
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