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I dug into the steering issue on my 8183 tonight. The tractor was steering so hard at the end of last season I had to use two hands constantly to steer. I brought this up on my 20G thread and some good information was passed around. If you are dealing with this problem, the subject is between posts 155 to 177 here. http://www.mytractorforum.com/showthread.php?t=254551&page=11.

Some very valuable info was posted at post #177 by IL_Gravely8179, where he posted the details of his solution and reference this thread. http://www.mytractorforum.com/showth...bearing&page=2

Included in his posting are part #’s he used to upgrade to needle thrust bearings in his 8000 series tractor. In the thread referenced, the Thread poster found his parts at Richards in WV.

Thrust bearing were apparently something most G series riders came with. It is not difficult to do an upgrade on an older 800 or 400 series rider.

Once I disconnected the tie rods I could barely swivel the font left tire by hand, using all my strength. It was worse on the right side. I had to get a long bar and pry as shown in this picture to move the tire at all. Wow no wonder I had difficulty steering.


Removal of the King Pin Weldments required some wrasslin’ and some heavy blows with a hammer. I managed to get them out eventually w/o any damage. Here you see how dry the left side is. Considerable work required to get this one out, even after this point.


Here you see some of the hardened long-ago grease, causing the problem. There is more like this in the axle assembley. So we are underway.
 

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Not to mention the dry crack in the tire!! :duh:

I have ran into that on various machines, doesn't seem to reoccur on machines kept inside and greased twice a year. :dunno:

:sidelaugh
 

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Not to mention the dry crack in the tire!!

I have ran into that on various machines, doesn't seem to reoccur on machines kept inside and greased twice a year. :dunno:
No doubt CP. Mine has been kept inside since I have owned it. Prior to that...???....seems self evident it had not. I admitted in my other thread not having greased this area. It wouldn't take grease...and ...well I just moved along, busy with what I do with my tractors. As I posted - not particularly proud of that. Good to hear it won't re-occur if maintained correctly.

I offer up the topic and will document the process with the thought in mind that someone else may acquire or may already own a machine with this issue and will benefit from seeing it.

The dry crack is 1 of 2 on those tires, so more will probably show up soon. The tread on them is still reasonable. I intend to have them filled with a solid hardening foam soon. I have seen this on a friend's 816 and it seems ideal for how I use this machine. The only way off after doing so as I understand it is cutting them off, but it is believed they should last quite a while like that in my application.
 

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Given that the king pins were not greased, the rest of the tractor has likely not been greased either. I wonder if the bearing at the end of the steering shaft is any good.
 

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I have added thrust bearings to the 8000/800 series tractors but it requires that only the bearing be installed. There isn't enough room for the bearing and the races.

If steering slop is the issue, then everything having to do with the steering and front end has to be gone through and custom bushings made. The OEM bushings in the steering arms and front axle pivot are so loose than the parts just fall in. Ideally there should be about .003 clearance in these parts. The clearance from the factory is about .030.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Another question regarding the front end please.

On my 8122 I have the front-axle pto drive shaft. Since I do not foresee using that tractor with front-end powered attachments, it makes sense to move that to the 8183, while I am rehabbing/upgrading that part of the tractor.

How do you go about removing it from the 8122? Can it be done w/o trashing the bearings?
 

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Just remove the snap rings on both sides and use a big socket to drive the bearings out.


Sent from the MTF Free App
 

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Another question regarding the front end please.

On my 8122 I have the front-axle pto drive shaft. Since I do not foresee using that tractor with front-end powered attachments, it makes sense to move that to the 8183, while I am rehabbing/upgrading that part of the tractor.

How do you go about removing it from the 8122? Can it be done w/o trashing the bearings?
It is unlikely that the bearings will emerge unscathed. Brinnelling of the bearings is likely what will happen. While it isn't a death sentence for those bearings which run at low RPMs, but the lifespan will be cut shorter. If in doubt get some new NTN 6205 bearings. The last I checked, new NTN 6205 double sealed bearings are about $8 each from Accurate Bearing.
 

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I had a small amount of time tonight so all I got done was removal of the steering axle casting. The axle pivot tube/bushing looks to have become one with the casting. Yikes! How hard is that going to be to take out? Perhaps I should just take it to a machine shop and have it pressed out?

Obviously the front axle has been pivoting on the non-lubricated axle pivot bolt alone. The bolt is not as bad as I would have guessed, given that. I'm not sure what is acceptable side to side play of the axle casting when it is mounted and hanging from the tractor. There was some but I did not attempt to measure it.

I read a posting by Ron C somewhere saying the bushing design was not ideal. Someone was suggesting grooving the bushings OD to provide for easier penetration of the grease. The point was made the tractor should be pivoting on the bushing, not the bolt, but often it does not end up that way. Now I see why.

Today I ordered a new bushing and needle bearings from Richard's. I hope to find a new bolt locally.

Richard: I noted your posting in the 2011 thread referenced above regarding the bearing on the steering wheel shaft, and plan to check it out. Also thanks for the sourcing details on the bearings for the front PTO shaft.

BTW That link above is not working if you want to review that thread try this http://www.mytractorforum.com/showthread.php?t=194692

Ralph: Thanks for the tip. Much like the process of getting the races and bearings out of the front wheels except for the snap rings.

Jeff: thanks for the tip.

 

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It is unlikely that the bearings will emerge unscathed. Brinnelling of the bearings is likely what will happen. While it isn't a death sentence for those bearings which run at low RPMs, but the lifespan will be cut shorter. If in doubt get some new NTN 6205 bearings. The last I checked, new NTN 6205 double sealed bearings are about $8 each from Accurate Bearing.
This is why I love these forums. I could go look up Brinnelling, but would much rather hear Richard's explanation. Isn't a Brinnell test one of the hardness tests? Things get a Brinnell number for their hardness? That's all I remember about Brinnell. Or maybe I also remember that a pointed weight is dropped on some material and the depth or size of the dent determines the Brinnell number?

So what does "Brinnelling of the Bearings" mean? Is it anything like "Changing of the Guard"?:confused:
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Don't know but had saved it to google later. Gooood question Ralph.
 

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Much like the process of getting the races and bearings out of the front wheels except for the snap rings.
I didn't see those snap rings the first time I removed a front stub axle bearing and promptly busted out a semicircle of axle casting which was not pretty. Good thing I was putting that assembly into another axle casting.:fing20:
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I didn't see those snap rings the first time I removed a front stub axle bearing and promptly busted out a semicircle of axle casting which was not pretty. Good thing I was putting that assembly into another axle casting.:fing20:
Exactly the kind of thing i was trying to avoid by asking. To some I'm sure a silly question, but that's why i come here. To learn. Thanks again for taking the time. Al
 

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All this spring re-habbing and rebuilding has put one word on my mind: GREASE!

I'd like to just have a pit of penetrating oil and drive the thing in it up to the clutches and let it sit for a day or two...then drive it out and hit all the zerks with a power grease gun till it was spewing out everywhere.
 

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This is why I love these forums. I could go look up Brinnelling, but would much rather hear Richard's explanation. Isn't a Brinnell test one of the hardness tests? Things get a Brinnell number for their hardness? That's all I remember about Brinnell. Or maybe I also remember that a pointed weight is dropped on some material and the depth or size of the dent determines the Brinnell number?

So what does "Brinnelling of the Bearings" mean? Is it anything like "Changing of the Guard"?:confused:
Actually, "Brinnelling" occurs due to a shock overload of the bearing,

fretting is more likely the failure mode of these bearings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fretting

Fretting usually happens when there is not enough motion to maintain adequate lubrication, but, there is vibration, or VERY slow motion.

I built a machine to move fabric at VERY low RPM (1 or 2 RPM) when I was young. The WAY-oversized ball bearings failed in a week. This was due to fretting.

The failed ball bearings were replaced with bushings, and all was well.

The failure could be due to brinnelling, if you are doing "wheelies!! :00000060:

:ROF
 

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Actually, "Brinnelling" occurs due to a shock overload of the bearing,
Which is exactly what will happen when driving the bearings out by hitting the shaft with a hammer.

There just isn't any way to prevent the front PTO bearings from being damaged when removing them from the front axle assuming they have been in there a while and the bore is rusty.

The way I see it, if the bearings seize, the shaft will be damaged. When that happens, then it is time to buy a new shaft and bearings. I believe that an ounce of prevention is worth at least a pound of cure in this case. I recommend that two new bearings be installed.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
1. There just isn't any way to prevent the front PTO bearings from being damaged when removing them from the front axle assuming they have been in there a while and the bore is rusty.

2. .......I recommend that two new bearings be installed.
1. A common sense observation which led me to ask about removing them

2. They will indeed be replaced
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Have you used it Kevin? Does it work as well as represented? I have never heard of one before.
 
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