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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
I had a little bit of time yesterday between an appointment and puppy training, but not enough time to make it to the two dealers I hand wanted to look at. One is a Kubota and the other sells Massey and Kioti. I searched and found another Kubota dealer that wasn't more than a mile or so out of my way and sung by there, but sadly, they only sold construction equipment. They did have a 25" Stihl ES Light bar that would fit my MS 400c for a reasonable price and I was sorely tempted as my saw is quite nose heavy when running the solid 25" ES bar... but I resisted. LOL.

I am going to try and head to the two dealers I mentioned above at some point. It's difficult as I am quite busy most days and the one dealer is not open Saturdays which makes it even more difficult. I am wishing for a loader right about now. Tuesday, I had a tree crew come out to remove 6 of the more difficult ash for me. 2 had limbs that were just dangling and were too high for me to get to with my pole saw and I wasn't going to start cutting into them without removing them, the others were close to and leaning into the road so I figured it would be better to let a pro handle those. Plus, they chipped up all the branches. Unfortunately, they put the chips in front of the garage so I can't get my car out until I move the chips. I could really use a loader right about now!!!

Sky Cloud Plant Tree Land lot
 

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'21 MF GC 1725 MB - '18 JD Ztrak Z960 M
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Just need a good head start馃槀 are you backed in, or pulled in?

That's something I don't understand ... Lots of these tractor dealers are closed on the weekend, and keep bankers hours! My MF dealer is open on Saturday 8-12, sorta ... Only parts and sales, mechanics have the day off ...

On my MF GC 1725 MB it has the foldable ROPS ... Quite a pain to drop, and put up, won't fold all the way down with the BH on either ... it won't fit in the garage up ... So it only went in once, I park it out in the barn now ...
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Just need a good head start馃槀 are you backed in, or pulled in?

That's something I don't understand ... Lots of these tractor dealers are closed on the weekend, and keep bankers hours! My MF dealer is open on Saturday 8-12, sorta ... Only parts and sales, mechanics have the day off ...

On my MF GC 1725 MB it has the foldable ROPS ... Quite a pain to drop, and put up, won't fold all the way down with the BH on either ... it won't fit in the garage up ... So it only went in once, I park it out in the barn now ...
Pulled in鈥 the right bay is smaller due to stairs leading upstairs.

To be fair, a dealer not open on the weekend isn鈥檛 a deal breaker. I am self employed and only see clients 3-4 days a week and then teach and run a group so I can Usually find some time to get somewhere during the week. Saturday hours are just nice to have.
 

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I lost several Green Ash trees to the EAB as well. But they do make good firewood. It splits really clean. Cal
 

Likes Vintage JDs
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Absolutely makes great firewood. I put a stand out front and have been selling bags. Makes more money and seems to sell better than bulk since I don't offer delivery.
Clever! You must live on a road with decent traffic volume, then? Just price it a couple bucks less than the grocery store and bingo!
 

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I will second the Yanmar on your short list.. SA325... SA Series | YANMAR Tractor
Check the loader lift capacity on that compared to your JD or Massey. I am a big fan of MF though.

A really nice option for ballast is a dirt or pond scoop. The yellow king kutter scoops weigh in at almost 300lbs by themselves then you can load some large landscape pavers wood or even sand bags in them to get them to the weight you want. I personally have some 20lb landscape pavers behind the barn that I put in there. Then if I want to use the dirt scoop for hauling other things, wood, tools etc. I can dump the pavers and use it for other things.

I currently have a ballast box and I would trade that in a NY second for a KK dirt scoop. I have had two KK dirt scoops. I paid $100 for the last one I bought.You can get them for that if you look around.
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I like the Massey GC series a lot. Heavy built cast iron everything, made in Japan by Iseki who apparently have a stellar reputation elsewhere in the world. The Iseki engine is on the larger side for a 24hp SCUT and it revs lower- both of those things resonate well with me.

That said I own a Yanmar (not an SA) and it's a fine machine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Well, my local JD dealer was having a sale on remaining 2022 models and offering a GC so I went back and got an updated quote of a 1025R with loader and 3rd function. They were all out of 2022 models without backhoe so they quoted a 2023 and out the door with 3rd function was $200 more than the previous quote of a TLB 2022! I think realistically, I am going to be looking at purchasing in the spring, but I may be looking closer at some of the budget brands and used units. I'll have to do some more research.
 

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I looked at TYM and the value was impressive. Fairly cheap, heavy built in Korea, and mostly they use Yanmar engines. My local dealer had a T224 with loader and 54" deck for $15k. The T264 and T25 were $18k with just the loader, and they're a step above a subcompact with huge tires and bigger wheelbase. TYM makes rural king tractors too and they're pretty inexpensive too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
I looked at TYM and the value was impressive. Fairly cheap, heavy built in Korea, and mostly they use Yanmar engines. My local dealer had a T224 with loader and 54" deck for $15k. The T264 and T25 were $18k with just the loader, and they're a step above a subcompact with huge tires and bigger wheelbase. TYM makes rural king tractors too and they're pretty inexpensive too.
I hadn't realized TYM made RK tractors. I've seen lots of folks talk about how good the RK tractors are for the price. NO RK nearby so I ruled them out initially. I do want to take a closer look at Kubota and Yanmar. I'll probably also add TYM and Koiti to the list as well. I just haven't had time to get to any dealers and actually look of late with my work schedule. I mostly have time when they are closed.
I looked there's a TYM dealer only about 25 minutes away which isn't bad. I stopped there once to inquire about a part for my Cub Cadet and wasn't impressed, but that was during the height of COVID and as a dealer they were taking zero precautions. Not trying to be political. At the time, I was working for the local hospital system and knew how prevalent COVID was in the area. Times have changed a bit and masks are thankfully not so charged anymore. I no longer work for the hospital, but I do still work with a lot of immunocompromised clients so I am mindful and do my best to protect them.
 

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Unfortunately the tractor is just the beginning. BUT fortunately you should be able to rent the individual peices of equipment that you need for each job until you have all the implements that you need. My little JD 1025 does wonders for what it is, but there are times that it is financially adventitious to rent a peice of equipment rather that buy something thast you will only use once every year or so.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Took a bit of a hiatus in my search as I just didn鈥檛 have time for any extra trips to dealers. Self employed is great, but sometimes it can get a bit hectic and the end of the year was just an absolute mad dash.

Our favorite local winery released my favorite Riesling that hasn鈥檛 been out since 2017 so we took my pup for a ride to get wine, a stop at the butcher, and look at tractors. Before leaving, I called around to a couple dealers on the way and one not far out of the way before stopping at Yanmar. Honestly, this was the dealer I liked the best thus far both when talking to them on the phone and then in person. Sales person introduced himself to my dog which scores points with the Mrs. LOL.
They had a 424 and a 325. They offered me a good deal on the 424 with a plow and bucket for $21k OTD which was good, but I鈥檓 not ready to purchase and I was honestly more interested in the ever so slightly smaller 325. It鈥檚 bigger than the other tractors I have looked at, but it just seems to offer more for less money. Just the way the tractors were parked I test drove the 424 since I understand both the SA 3 and 4 series are functionally the same with just different sized tires. I was impressed with the comfort of the seat and how small the turning radius was considering it鈥檚 bigger with larger tires. I also really liked how the new ones have the rear remote valves and greater lift capacity.
I got a quote for a SA325 with loader, 3rd function valve and grapple and with tax it was less than the quote I got for a 1025R with 3rd function valve and no grapple back in October. Before this the JD was at the top of my list. There were some things I really liked about the MF, but I just didn鈥檛 find the operating seat quite as comfortable as the JD. The Yanmar shot up.

I do think before I make a final decision I want to check out Kioti, Kubota, and maybe TYM.
 

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Sounds like you're real close to having a lot of fun with a new machine.. the suspense ought to be killing you!! :ROFLMAO:

'No time for tractor shopping' is gonna sound pretty ironic when you finish the thing you were supposed to be doing with your tractor and then start making up silly new reasons just to stay on it a little longer! No time, he said! Look at him now!
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
I suppose I can't say that I truly do not have time, but I am rather busy. I started a private practice last year and also taught a grad course last semester so that has taken most of my waking hours and then my other side gig of selling firewood has taken up weekend and nicer weather time. Today I had time, but no desire to go look at tractors in the cold. I did place some calls and send some emails for updated pricing.
I think based on price a MF GC1725M, Kioti CS2520, Kubota BX 2680, and Yanmar SA325 are all right around the same price. The BX will have probably highest retail, good PTO power, but lower than everyone else lift capacity. MF and Kioti are right in the middle, but Yanmar just gives more tractor for the $. It's a bit wider and heavier so should be more stable, better lift capacity, and includes rear remotes. I'm really leaning towards a SA325. I know the Yanmar QA is something to either be aware of and deal with or swap to SSQA right away. I am wondering about long term parts and service. I've heard the older cub cadet scuts built by Yanmar do not have parts support anymore and are not that old. I'd like a tractor that will last 20+ years and a big part of that will be parts availability. Does anyone have any insight on this? I would hope actual Yanmar branded machines will be supported long term.
 

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The cub cadet branded SCUTs were pretty rare, just not many out there. Big reason they鈥檙e not well supported- not financially viable for the company or dealerships. The true Yanmar stuff is more common so the odds of long term support are a lot better.

There are A LOT of 20+ year old machines of pretty much all brands out there with a lot of hours on them that haven鈥檛 required much more than generic oil/fuel filters and mostly generic fluids.. basic maintenance stuff. It鈥檚 fairly rare to have lack of parts availability completely cripple a machine, but it does happen. Your odds are pretty good going with any brand, especially one that has a lot of product history, that you won鈥檛 have a major breakdown within your 20 year target, even mixing in a little abuse. Your odds are even better that lack of parts availability won鈥檛 permanently cripple your machine when something does break. Sure, maybe you鈥檒l break a headlight or something that was discontinued and doesn鈥檛 exist on the used market. Just install an aftermarket light bar. Break an unobtanium hood latch on your 25 year old machine? Bungee cord will do just fine! if you break your transmission case or engine block that鈥檚 no longer in production and can鈥檛 be found used, well, now you might have a problem.

Yanmar isn鈥檛 nearly as common in North America as it is overseas. Lots of imported parts will likely always be available.

As far as lift capacity, I鈥檝e always taken them with a grain of salt. Kubota and Massey I know for a fact are under rated based on personal experience. Couple examples- my L4610 is rated to tow maybe 6000-8000 lb. I鈥檝e exceeded 30,000 lb on multiple occasions. Attached photo is my L4610 pulling a dump trailer (3000 lb) with conservatively 8 yards (27 scoops with a 1/3 yard bucket on an excavator) of soaking wet fill sand (3200-3500 lb/yard). I also had close to .75 yards of that same wet sand in the bucket on other trips with a full trailer. The trailer was far too heavy to self dump - I had to scoop out a bunch of sand as well as help it dump using the loader. And I did break the trailer(destroyed a rim and the studs) due to overloading. A Kubota L2900 is rated at maybe 5,000 lb towing capacity. I鈥檝e exceeded 12,000 lb hundreds of times. By the way - those examples were with the 3pt hitch, not the fixed draw bar. They will lift a lot more with the 3pt than they claim in their literature. Safely? I dunno鈥 but they will do it. I鈥檓 pretty sure the loader on my Kubota L4610 that鈥檚 rated at 852 kg will pick up more than 1000 kg (2200 lb, 24鈥 ahead of the pins). Based on how easily it picks up .75 yards of VERY wet sand. I鈥檝e also picked up and moved a 7鈥 wide 3pt twin auger 2 stage snowblower that weighs well over 1,000 lb. On a 400+ lb industrial lifting table. On a heavy duty 50 lb pallet. Using a 60 lb pair of forks. Clamped onto the cutting edge of the bucket. Center of gravity farther than 3鈥 ahead of the pins. Yes- my bucket is bent now, and I had to straighten and reinforce the forks. I often wonder whether or not some manufacturers include the weight of the bucket in their calculations鈥

Park a Mahindra and similar sized Massey or Kubota next to each other. Dimensionally they鈥檙e pretty close. Front axle housings, curb weights, loader arm dimensions, and cylinders are pretty close. How can the Mahindra be 鈥渞ated鈥 to lift so much more than the Massey or Kubota? It鈥檚 several hundred pounds from what I can recall off the top of my head. I honestly don鈥檛 know those answers but can only speculate my 鈥渞ated without a bucket theory,鈥 higher hydraulic pressure (either of which I suppose could be verified), or just a lower factor of safety being advertised because that鈥檚 how Mahindra or (other brand) handles their business. With The 鈥渂ig 3鈥 Kubota, Deere, and Massey - which are pretty much legendary for dependability- similar models are spec鈥檇 really close to each other.
 

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'21 MF GC 1725 MB - '18 JD Ztrak Z960 M
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My Massey Ferguson dealer explained it to me that it is rated "at the pins" ... Which means than anything added past the pins is included in the weight rating ... So, that includes the SSQA adapter, the bucket/forks, PLUS the load.

My loader is rated at 922 lbs.

Here is my real life example ... A 40"X48" hardwood pallet (50 lbs) plus 40 lb bags of hardwood heating pellets ... These are heavy duty forks rated for 4,000 lbs, which weigh 300 lbs! (All my dealer could source at the time!) This is actually the highest I could lift them!

Vehicle Wheel Tire Plant Sky


By moving the load back closer to the pins, I was able to add a extra bag!

Tire Plant Sky Wheel Vehicle


This is about the best picture I can scrounge up to show the difference of the pin, and back of fork ...

Vehicle Motor vehicle Plant Automotive tire Agricultural machinery
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
That鈥檚 pretty impressive! Probably a bit over 1k lbs and way farther out from the pins. I鈥檒l be honest, I鈥檓 not sure how much lifting capacity I need, but I would want to be able to lift logs to more easily cut and move, load and unload my truck. Last year, I injured myself trying to get my new air compressor out of my truck alone鈥as just impatient and the top heavy compressor ended up on me. I did learn my lesson and have asked for help from neighbors to help me unload the fridge and freezer I got this year. I suppose most of these things are only a couple hundred pounds, but logs could be more. I have an old furnace in my garage I鈥檇 like to move. It鈥檚 probably several hundred lbs of steel.
My fear is not having a strong enough tractor for what I want, but also not wanting to upsize due to space and monetary reasons. I have seen videos on YouTube and definitely a gc1725m, 1025r, could absolutely do what I want. I do have some concerns about lift capacity with a kubota bx.

Nearby I see many JD and Kubota. Then everything else is a mix. Some kioti, MF, new Holland, LS, Yanmar. There are 2 bobcat dealers within 30min, but I have yet to see one driving down the road or up for sale. There are probably more Kioti than MF, LS, or Yanmar and that is shown in local dealers. There are 3 Yanmar dealers in a 100 mile radius, 5 kioti dealers, and professional 15 or more JD and Kubota dealers.
I鈥檒l probably try and go look at Kioti and Kubota, but so far Yanmar was the most comfortable by far followed by JD. I just struggle to justify the premium for JD.
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
The cub cadet branded SCUTs were pretty rare, just not many out there. Big reason they鈥檙e not well supported- not financially viable for the company or dealerships. The true Yanmar stuff is more common so the odds of long term support are a lot better.

There are A LOT of 20+ year old machines of pretty much all brands out there with a lot of hours on them that haven鈥檛 required much more than generic oil/fuel filters and mostly generic fluids.. basic maintenance stuff. It鈥檚 fairly rare to have lack of parts availability completely cripple a machine, but it does happen. Your odds are pretty good going with any brand, especially one that has a lot of product history, that you won鈥檛 have a major breakdown within your 20 year target, even mixing in a little abuse. Your odds are even better that lack of parts availability won鈥檛 permanently cripple your machine when something does break. Sure, maybe you鈥檒l break a headlight or something that was discontinued and doesn鈥檛 exist on the used market. Just install an aftermarket light bar. Break an unobtanium hood latch on your 25 year old machine? Bungee cord will do just fine! if you break your transmission case or engine block that鈥檚 no longer in production and can鈥檛 be found used, well, now you might have a problem.

Yanmar isn鈥檛 nearly as common in North America as it is overseas. Lots of imported parts will likely always be available.

As far as lift capacity, I鈥檝e always taken them with a grain of salt. Kubota and Massey I know for a fact are under rated based on personal experience. Couple examples- my L4610 is rated to tow maybe 6000-8000 lb. I鈥檝e exceeded 30,000 lb on multiple occasions. Attached photo is my L4610 pulling a dump trailer (3000 lb) with conservatively 8 yards (27 scoops with a 1/3 yard bucket on an excavator) of soaking wet fill sand (3200-3500 lb/yard). I also had close to .75 yards of that same wet sand in the bucket on other trips with a full trailer. The trailer was far too heavy to self dump - I had to scoop out a bunch of sand as well as help it dump using the loader. And I did break the trailer(destroyed a rim and the studs) due to overloading. A Kubota L2900 is rated at maybe 5,000 lb towing capacity. I鈥檝e exceeded 12,000 lb hundreds of times. By the way - those examples were with the 3pt hitch, not the fixed draw bar. They will lift a lot more with the 3pt than they claim in their literature. Safely? I dunno鈥 but they will do it. I鈥檓 pretty sure the loader on my Kubota L4610 that鈥檚 rated at 852 kg will pick up more than 1000 kg (2200 lb, 24鈥 ahead of the pins). Based on how easily it picks up .75 yards of VERY wet sand. I鈥檝e also picked up and moved a 7鈥 wide 3pt twin auger 2 stage snowblower that weighs well over 1,000 lb. On a 400+ lb industrial lifting table. On a heavy duty 50 lb pallet. Using a 60 lb pair of forks. Clamped onto the cutting edge of the bucket. Center of gravity farther than 3鈥 ahead of the pins. Yes- my bucket is bent now, and I had to straighten and reinforce the forks. I often wonder whether or not some manufacturers include the weight of the bucket in their calculations鈥

Park a Mahindra and similar sized Massey or Kubota next to each other. Dimensionally they鈥檙e pretty close. Front axle housings, curb weights, loader arm dimensions, and cylinders are pretty close. How can the Mahindra be 鈥渞ated鈥 to lift so much more than the Massey or Kubota? It鈥檚 several hundred pounds from what I can recall off the top of my head. I honestly don鈥檛 know those answers but can only speculate my 鈥渞ated without a bucket theory,鈥 higher hydraulic pressure (either of which I suppose could be verified), or just a lower factor of safety being advertised because that鈥檚 how Mahindra or (other brand) handles their business. With The 鈥渂ig 3鈥 Kubota, Deere, and Massey - which are pretty much legendary for dependability- similar models are spec鈥檇 really close to each other.
Thanks, this helps. I wonder though if down the road any less popular tractor might face similar issues.
Cub cadet yanmars are pretty popular near me so they seem like a bigger cautionary tale than maybe they are? At the same time there are lots of old Yanmar built JD tractors that don't have the same caution about parts availability. I know CC has changed hands and really cheapened their products. My CC XT2 mower has been good, but my neighbors older JD 240 will probably outlast mine. MTD has some good products and I like my lawn tractor, but it's no GT or SCUT and it's had a hard life. Just a couple weeks ago I needed to move some logs and my wheel horse was already loaded so I grabbed it out and proceeded to hit a couple lower stumps with the deck pretty good. I may be welding the mounts again this spring.

I guess at the end of the day, limited parts may not be as big a deal as long as there is dealer support. My understanding is that Yanmar dealers are not tied in anyway so bringing a cub Yanmar would be no different than any other brand for repairs. They would have to try and source parts too and may not be able to order them.

I just saw a sc2400 for $11k. I'd have to go back. I wish used prices were more reasonable overall.
 
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