[soloz2]

Just beginning my search into subcompact tractors. I've wanted one for a few years, but struggled to justify the price, as I've been getting by with my old Wheel Horse garden tractor and my Cub Cadet lawn tractor on my property that's a little over an acre. Really, the tractor would have been useful for a couple years now as we've been hit with EAB and have been working on removing the dead ash trees from my property. We started with 86, and have about 20 left to go. We also have added a greenhouse, expanded the garden, and gotten a small flock of chickens.
In the future, we are looking into possibly getting a PTO stump grinder as opposed to paying someone to come grind stumps for us.
We are planning on extending the garden once more, adding more chickens, doing landscaping (redo the paver patio, add a gazebo, fire pit, and maybe a small koi pond), and planting a bunch more fruit trees. Right now, we have pear, apple, and peach.

Things I would like to be able to do:
Move mulch, stone,sand, etc around my property so a loader is important. I'd also like to be able to use the loader to unload or load heavier objects in the back of my truck so I don't always have to ask a neighbor for help.
Add and maintain an in ground garden
Post hole digger for fence posts and probably to use to plant trees. (We will plant probably 30-40 trees)
Move logs/help with firewood processing
Use PTO to grind stumps, 4’ tiller, and maybe a chipper in the future
I will probably use for snow removal as well. I have a 38" walk behind snow blower, soI would probably start with just a bucket.
I'll also pull my utility trailer and splitter around my property.
I probably won't use it to mow as I have a nice lawn tractor and would just assume to put the $3k for a deck towards a zero turn when I'm ready to replace the cub.

I would love a grapple and a backhoe, butI probably won't get those due to expense. I will likely rent a mini excavator when it comes time to dig the koi pond, then use the tractor for everything else. I’m thinking about starting with tractor, loader and ballast (load tires and/or ballast box). I’ll use a post hole digger soon so would probably go with that and forks right away, possibly a tiller, but I may wait until after the stumps are ground before making a larger garden.


I stopped and looked at a 1025R and then went to the Massey dealer and looked at a GC1725M. Both were nice. I felt the JD was more comfortable, but I liked how quickly the MF could move the hydraulics. I haven't really looked closely at specs, but I felt both would probably do what I want. Surprisingly the MF was only $500 less than the JD and the JD dealer is way closer.
I have primarily been looking at the 25HP models to maximize PTO power for implements like stump grinding that I imagine would benefit from as much power as I had.
I was thinking about looking at Kubota and maybe LS or TYM, but those dealers are all farther away. Is there anything I should be looking at or asking about when I'm looking? I just want to make sure I cover my bases.

 

[UrbanTractor]

You are very much on the right track with the GC and 1025R. I would recommend a trip to the Kubota dealer to check out a BX (2380 or 2680) as well.

But do not under-value the convenience of having good dealership support nearby. The best tractor in the world will need dealer support and/or parts from time to time. If it is a logistical ordeal to trailer the machine back to the dealer, or even to drive there for parts, that is a big ownership downer.

This may be a non-issue for you since you are not planning to buy a BH. But of note on the BX machines, you cannot add an oem BH to a 2380 or 2680 later if you change your mind. You need to go all in on the 23S to get a BH upfront, or accept that you will have to trade later if your needs change and you want the oem BH. I do not know whether the same is true with the MF GC series. But JD will sell a BH for the 1025r to you later if you want to add one. (At least they used to. Worth double checking!)

 

[soloz2]

You are very much on the right track with the GC and 1025R. I would recommend a trip to the Kubota dealer to check out a BX (2380 or 2680) as well.

But do not under-value the convenience of having good dealership support nearby. The best tractor in the world will need dealer support and/or parts from time to time. If it is a logistical ordeal to trailer the machine back to the dealer, or even to drive there for parts, that is a big ownership downer.

This may be a non-issue for you since you are not planning to buy a BH. But of note on the BX machines, you cannot add an oem BH to a 2380 or 2680 later if you change your mind. You need to go all in on the 23S to get a BH upfront, or accept that you will have to trade later if your needs change and you want the oem BH. I do not know whether the same is true with the MF GC series. But JD will sell a BH for the 1025r to you later if you want to add one. (At least they used to. Worth double checking!)

Thank you. I did see that Kubota only has the BH as an option on the bx23s and not the other models. The MF dealer said it was possible to add a BH later, but they wouldn't advise it as it would require substantial work and cost significantly more than getting one initially. JD said you could add one later, but to not wait too long as they will sell a "kit" of everything you need for a few years before they stop selling the "kit" and you would have to purchase everything individually which would be substantially more $.

The comment about the trailer is valid. I presently do not have a trailer I could move the tractor with. I've been planning to get a new utility trailer for a bit, but have managed with my little 4x6' HF trailer so far. The MF dealer is about half hour away, while the JD dealer is about 15 minutes away. It's about 12 miles so while it would take forever I could drive the tractor to the JD dealer if necessary.
I've had a bit of hit/miss with the JD dealer. I went there first when I bought my property to buy a lawn tractor and when I engaged the blades the entire tractor shook and the salesman told me it was "normal" so I went down the street and bought my Cub. The Cub dealer turned out to not be great and they now no longer sell Cub and do sell LS, but I refuse to give them any more of my $. I did recently buy a new chainsaw from the JD dealer as they were able to get the saw I wanted (MS 400c) while others couldn't, but it took them making several requests to get it from another location. The parts department seems to be way better than sales. I did like the MF dealer a bit better, but either would probably be alright.

 

[Shawn T W.]

In my opinion ... I choose to use a heavy implement instead of a ballast box(BB), or weights ... Only advantage I could see to a BB is if you have really tight maneuvers ... Otherwise spend you money on an implement ... Loaded tires alone aren't enough weight, but does help, for full disclosure I used windshield washer fluid, not the heavier beet juice ...

Do you have a gravel driveway? If yes, I'd buy a land plane, it is heavy enough to act as a BB, and serves another purpose ... I'm not sure if a rototiller would be heavy enough alone ... Mine has the advantage of being pushed out farther (better leverage) because I also have a Quick Hitch on the CAT1 3pt ... If you plan on swapping 3pt implements often, I recommend one of those too!

My Massey Ferguson dealer reminded me that the loader lift specs are "at the pins" which means literally hook that weight directly to the pin ... I have the optional Skid Steer Quick Attach (SSQA) on mine, so I can quickly change from bucket to forks ... But ... That bracket/adapter puts the weight farther out from the "pins" so you can't pick up as much weight as the specs say, PLUS you need to add in the weight of the bucket/forks ... And the SSQA adapter ...

If you skip down to post #160 you will see that I was able to gain 40 pounds, by stacking the weight closer to the "pins" ... Meet "Baby Fergie"! In post #161 you can see the bucket full of rocks, with the Bush Hog brand 4' rototiller acting as my ballast, so it works with my loaded tires and Quick Hitch!

 

[MARK (LI)]

You need to go all in on the 23S to get a BH upfront, or accept that you will have to trade later if your needs change and you want the oem BH. I do not know whether the same is true with the MF GC series.

I am happy with my M-F 1723 E ...BH must be bought with the tractor....can't be added on afterwards...it is a great machine...pretty easy to do your own maintenance and great on fuel

 

[soloz2]

In my opinion ... I choose to use a heavy implement instead of a ballast box(BB), or weights ... Only advantage I could see to a BB is if you have really tight maneuvers ... Otherwise spend you money on an implement ... Loaded tires alone aren't enough weight, but does help, for full disclosure I used windshield washer fluid, not the heavier beet juice ...

Do you have a gravel driveway? If yes, I'd buy a land plane, it is heavy enough to act as a BB, and serves another purpose ... I'm not sure if a rototiller would be heavy enough alone ... Mine has the advantage of being pushed out farther (better leverage) because I also have a Quick Hitch on the CAT1 3pt ... If you plan on swapping 3pt implements often, I recommend one of those too!

My Massey Ferguson dealer reminded me that the loader lift specs are "at the pins" which means literally hook that weight directly to the pin ... I have the optional Skid Steer Quick Attach (SSQA) on mine, so I can quickly change from bucket to forks ... But ... That bracket/adapter puts the weight farther out from the "pins" so you can't pick up as much weight as the specs say, PLUS you need to add in the weight of the bucket/forks ... And the SSQA adapter ...

If you skip down to post #160 you will see that I was able to gain 40 pounds, by stacking the weight closer to the "pins" ... Meet "Baby Fergie"! In post #161 you can see the bucket full of rocks, with the Bush Hog brand 4' rototiller acting as my ballast, so it works with my loaded tires and Quick Hitch!

I don’t think I’d want an implement on the back all the time, and My driveway is paved… but needs to be replaced so if I just continue to let it go I might end up with a gravel drive in time. 😂 I do have some right spaces that having something hanging off the back all the time would not be ideal so maybe a ballast box is best for me?

 

[MARK (LI)]

I made this from old elevator weights I got at a scrap metal place ...each plate weighs 53 pounds...and tires filled with rim guard

 

[UrbanTractor]

I don’t think I’d want an implement on the back all the time, and My driveway is paved… but needs to be replaced so if I just continue to let it go I might end up with a gravel drive in time. 😂 I do have some right spaces that having something hanging off the back all the time would not be ideal so maybe a ballast box is best for me?

Yeah, in my tight operating and storage areas, having a large implement hanging off the rear of the tractor all the time would be a hassle.

In addition to being very compact, a ballast box can double as a handy “trunk” for hauling tools, extra fuel, etc, even when full of ballast. The ballast (if using steel, lead, or concrete) usually only partially fills the ballast box, leaving plenty of extra space for odds and ends.

 

[Renster of N.H.]

Of course, I'm going to ask;

Is there a Kioti dealer in your area by chance?
If there is, you'd be doing yourself a disservice if you didn't at least visit them and investigate.

A CS 2520 will capably do all that you indicate above for very reasonable money. However, as pointed out - dealer support is just as, if not even more important than product brand.

Renster

 

[lx176mainer]

If you end up going non backhoe, then the rops on the MF is short and fixed. It is nice as you can get in any garage I bet and don't need to worry about folding it (I am taller than it sitting on the tractor and standing next to it if I remember correctly). When a upand unfolded the MF will also provide more room around your trees compared the the MF backhoe folding rops or the Deere.

Second thought: Post hole digger for trees sounds like a large auger and more likely to get hung up or stuck. Catch a root/rock and get it hung up and the PTO post hole digger is non-reversible. Less prone to happen with a 6" auger I would suppose. Just some food for thought.

Adam

 

[soloz2]

Of course, I'm going to ask;

Is there a Kioti dealer in your area by chance?
If there is, you'd be doing yourself a disservice if you didn't at least visit them and investigate.

A CS 2520 will capably do all that you indicate above for very reasonable money. However, as pointed out - dealer support is just as, if not even more important than product brand.

Renster

I did look and there are a couple dealers, I would consider reasonable distance of about 30 miles,
but they are not in the direction I would normally travel.
More convenient dealers would be JD, LS (but I won't go to this dealer due to past issues), and Kubota, but Kubota is a bit out of the way. The MF dealer is opposite direction, but only about 25 min so it's feasible.

 

[soloz2]

If you end up going non backhoe, then the rops on the MF is short and fixed. It is nice as you can get in any garage I bet and don't need to worry about folding it (I am taller than it sitting on the tractor and standing next to it if I remember correctly). When a upand unfolded the MF will also provide more room around your trees compared the the MF backhoe folding rops or the Deere.

Second thought: Post hole digger for trees sounds like a large auger and more likely to get hung up or stuck. Catch a root/rock and get it hung up and the PTO post hole digger is non-reversible. Less prone to happen with a 6" auger I would suppose. Just some food for thought.

Adam

I hadn't really thought about not having reverse on a PTO post hole digger. I do have roots and rocks so even the tow behind ones I've used in the past have struggled.
What would be better for digging to plant? I had also throught about a stump bucket and I'd be lying if I said I hadn't thought about a BH. I think that part really comes down to my SO as she normally sets and approves budget.

Speaking of the lower ROPS on the non BH MF. I noticed that and honestly really liked it. I have low garage doors, about 6' 4" clearance and would have to lower the ROPS every time or get the MF, so that is a pro for me. I also liked how quick the hydraulics worked and that the engine was backwards so it wouldn't blow hot air on you all summer.
I did feel the JD seat was more comfortable, so comfort plays a role here, they also were giving a discount instead of markup and had better financing. The MF sales guy was better though.
I left thinking either would suite my needs.
The dealer didn't have a dirt pile or anything so I couldn't try lifting anything and pricing was essentially the same as the JD which surprised me. There's another MF dealer farther away, I think they sell kioti too. Maybe I'll call and see what they have for pricing.

 

[lx176mainer]

The backhoe or rented mini would also allow you to set the tree in the hole. Root ball is what...16-24"?

 

[Gage A]

We have owned sevral massey tractors over the years mostly of larger size. I only have owned one (MF 383) of my own the rest where my dads. One thing I can say is their hydraulics seem to be stronger and last longer over the John deeres. Not sure on Kubota. Hope you find what you are looking for. Dont forget about used tractors. Around me many come up for sale with 500-1,000 hours on them, which for a diesel, is just breaking it in!

 

[steddy]

Caution - personal opinions below!!!

I think you might be selling yourself short if you don’t at least LOOK at kubota and the aforementioned Kioti, and maybe the LS and TYM, maybe even Mahindra. Those last three brands will be cheaper than the others, and they’re usually great machines especially for the price. But I’m on this forum way more than I should be and have read many stories about chronic issues (major and minor) with all brands of machines. Those stories tend to be from a non-proportional ratio of Mahindra, LS, and TYM. Kioti seems to be a little higher quality than the other 3 (LS, TYM, Mahindra). You might find that the loader lift capacity for JD, Kubota, and Massey is within a few lbs, and the other brands are much higher. I feel those are inflated numbers and that capacity REALLY pushes the limits of the machines, whereas the Big 3 brands are a little more conservative to help preserve the life of the machines and safety of the operator. (Hint - loader lifting capacity can be increased without major upgrades to the machine).

If I were in your shoes, I’d look at all the brands but I’d really only consider Kubota, MF, JD, and maybe Kioti in that order but that’s just me. I’ve played with SCUT and CUT for a lot of years with a few different implements, but never a stump grinder. IMHO a stump grinder is only good for grinding stumps. A backhoe on a SCUT is a lot of power in a really small package and won’t have any trouble digging out even a medium to good sized ash stump since the roots just tend to rot. The backhoe will also do A LOT of other things, especially when equipped with a thumb, although the choice to rent the mini ex to dig the pond would likely be a wise one (I’ve run one and would take it over a backhoe any day except $$$).

Also if you ever deem your projects complete, a SCUT with loader and backhoe or even just a factory backhoe setup for a common machine (think Kubota and Deere in particular) is incredibly easy to sell. Not sure about the stump grinder. Someone looking for a used factory backhoe might not be picky about having the exact swivel seat or the exact roll bar or the other things a TLB is factory equipped with.

Controversially, I’m also a big advocate of the rear mounted snowblower. Cheap, simple, universal, easy to install, and you don’t need to choose between a front end loader or a snowblower… you can run both simultaneously. Also with the front mounted, you’re pretty limited to like one or two models the factory offers for your model tractor. You can easily run a 60” blower, but I think the largest unit the factory offers for front mounted is 54”… and prepare to pay several thousand for it. You can find a good used 60” rear mount for under $1k usually. But I don’t mind turning around to operate the tractor.

Again just my humble opinion but to summarize, I’d be after the TLB from one of the big 3.

 

[3 Legged Dog]

You're smart to go with a 25 HP tractor for the increased PTO HP. Especially for what you want to do.

I have a Kioti CS2210, which is 21 engine HP and 16.3 HP at the PTO. The new Kioti CS2520 has a greatly improved SSQA loader and other improvements, and 24.5 engine HP and 18.5 PTO HP. I have the FEL and many implements, but no MMM as I mow with a YT.

I regularly use my ballast box, core aerator, front-mount snowblower, rear blade, sub-soil ripper, pine straw rake, Piranha tooth bar, drag harrow, clamp-on pallet forks, bucket Edge Tamers with Edge Extenders, and my PJ T/A utility trailer.

I've been very pleased with Kioti. Cal

 

[TheMurf]

Your quest for a sub compact sounds exactly like mine. Looked and Looked, waited, couldn't justify buying one. Then this year I bought a BX 1880 and now wished I had years ago. It's everything I wanted and it's quality built. I wanted a Kubota and that's what I bought..The dealer has a outstanding reputation and that is why I chose to buy from them. I looking forward to moving some dirt with it and filling the low spots in our lawn along with mulching. The 1880 is all I really need. Don't hesitate like I did for years.

 

[UrbanTractor]

Caution - personal opinions below!!!

I think you might be selling yourself short if you don’t at least LOOK at kubota and the aforementioned Kioti, and maybe the LS and TYM, maybe even Mahindra. Those last three brands will be cheaper than the others, and they’re usually great machines especially for the price. But I’m on this forum way more than I should be and have read many stories about chronic issues (major and minor) with all brands of machines. Those stories tend to be from a non-proportional ratio of Mahindra, LS, and TYM. Kioti seems to be a little higher quality than the other 3 (LS, TYM, Mahindra). You might find that the loader lift capacity for JD, Kubota, and Massey is within a few lbs, and the other brands are much higher. I feel those are inflated numbers and that capacity REALLY pushes the limits of the machines, whereas the Big 3 brands are a little more conservative to help preserve the life of the machines and safety of the operator. (Hint - loader lifting capacity can be increased without major upgrades to the machine).

If I were in your shoes, I’d look at all the brands but I’d really only consider Kubota, MF, JD, and maybe Kioti in that order but that’s just me. I’ve played with SCUT and CUT for a lot of years with a few different implements, but never a stump grinder. IMHO a stump grinder is only good for grinding stumps. A backhoe on a SCUT is a lot of power in a really small package and won’t have any trouble digging out even a medium to good sized ash stump since the roots just tend to rot. The backhoe will also do A LOT of other things, especially when equipped with a thumb, although the choice to rent the mini ex to dig the pond would likely be a wise one (I’ve run one and would take it over a backhoe any day except $$$).

Also if you ever deem your projects complete, a SCUT with loader and backhoe or even just a factory backhoe setup for a common machine (think Kubota and Deere in particular) is incredibly easy to sell. Not sure about the stump grinder. Someone looking for a used factory backhoe might not be picky about having the exact swivel seat or the exact roll bar or the other things a TLB is factory equipped with.

Controversially, I’m also a big advocate of the rear mounted snowblower. Cheap, simple, universal, easy to install, and you don’t need to choose between a front end loader or a snowblower… you can run both simultaneously. Also with the front mounted, you’re pretty limited to like one or two models the factory offers for your model tractor. You can easily run a 60” blower, but I think the largest unit the factory offers for front mounted is 54”… and prepare to pay several thousand for it. You can find a good used 60” rear mount for under $1k usually. But I don’t mind turning around to operate the tractor.

Again just my humble opinion but to summarize, I’d be after the TLB from one of the big 3.

“Again just my humble opinion but to summarize, I’d be after the TLB from one of the big 3.”

Sound advice here. However, I would also add Yanmar to my short list, if there is a good dealership in your vicinity.

 

[steddy]

I forgot to mention as a bunch of others already hinted- whatever you buy, make sure it has skid steer quick attach on the business end of the loader, and quick attach for the loader frame itself. Make sure the control valve stays with the tractor when the loader is removed. I think that’s pretty standard across the board for new machines now, but on some of the early quick attach loaders the valve stayed with the loader, rendering it inconvenient to install a plow or front snowblower on the tractor without a second control valve setup. Super easy to find buckets, forks, grapples, plows, and a myriad of other attachments. You won’t appreciate it unless you don’t have it, especially if you frequently switch between bucket, forks, plow, and/or grapple.

I don’t have it on my machine and it’s somewhat cost prohibitive for me to convert at this time… about $1800 to buy the loader side SSQA bracket and covert my bucket to SSQA.

A couple weeks ago I bought a random Kubota factory loader setup for cheap partially due to the off chance I might be able to use the SSQA bracket it came with. Sadly it’s way undersized for my loader.

 

[blrmkr744]

In terms of a SCUT, look at every brand and model that you are able and pick your color. Some are a little better than others, but no one makes a bad one. Any brand you pay more new tends to hold higher resale.
JD and Kubota are probably top tier.
Massy, Kioti, Bobcat(Kioti), Yanmar, Mahindra are in the middle.
Nothing wrong with LS, Tym either and people seem to love their Branson(Tym) and Badboys (Tym).
Many brands have the same engines and use the same parts. Availability of part can be an issue. Dealer service is another issue.
Knowing what you want it to do is half the battle and to me, mowing with a SCUT is not your best option.
For me, the Bobcat CT1025 with FEL and backhoe made sense after I looked at several others. If I had to do it again, I would wish a Branson dealer was close by.