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Discussion Starter #1
I am getting more than "usual" grinding when I stop to shift on my SS/18. I can push the clutch all the way in, but the belt is still turning. I have watched the idler spin even after a while of holding in the clutch. I recall seeing something about a sliding adjustment in the manual, but it looked like it was all the way "loose". I haven't changed the belt since I bought it a year ago, and I don't remember it being this way until a few months ago. Is there anything I should be looking for to make the clutch release enough to shift without grinding the transmission?
 

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On the idler pulley there is a peice that rubs on the outside of the belt when you depress the clutch--that stops the belt from moving,so the gears can be shifted without grinding...if the clutch is not adjusted right it wont contact the belt enough to stop it from moving,and you'll get gear clashing...which aint good for the teeth on them at all!..

I have had to make a "belt brake" for one of my Suburbans I swapped A different engine onto,in order to be able to shift it without grinding the teeth off the gears...I bolted another longer peice of 1/4" flat stock about an inch wide to the original one,and sanded the part that touches the belt nice and smooth,so it wont tear it up...works good!..

You can google "Vintage Sears Tractor" and find a website that has the proper adjustment procedure to adust the clutch belt..
 

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Cranky Motorsports
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The pivot point for the clutch is probably really worn out too- if it has the clutch that goes through the dash side plate and not one that is made to the bottom of the Battery tray.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I will look for the belt back side "brake" on the idler when I do the planned maintenance in a few weeks to switch from grass to snow duty.

GT80, I am guessing you mean that the pivot/rod holes are oblonged, not round, correct?
 

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Deere 330 Killer
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There is a bushing on the clutch pivot assembly which wears out to the point where you can grind gears. Check that
 

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You shouldn't have any "usual" grinding at all. If it has always ground you might want to check that the PO put the right size belt on. I tinkered with mine forever before I figured out that the belt was 1" too short! Also might want to check and make sure the clutch isn't out of adjustment and over clutching, in which case the belt brake can push hard enough on the belt to make it start grabbing again. Might also check pulley alignment, which shouldn't have changed from a few months ago, but you never know. Don't think it would happen again in a million years, but the cotter pin in my clutch pivot wore off to the point where it allowed my clutch arm to slide out 1/4"-3/8" or so but then bound up in such a manner that it held the clutch in place with almost zero play. Took me forever to figure that one out...
 

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Discussion Starter #7
The "usual" grinding was from trying to shift the transmission too soon after pressing the clutch. Being a mechanical guy, I picture the mechanics of operation of everything as it's happening, so I have a tendancy to over-baby things. I would wait extra time for the belt to stop to shift. Now, it takes way too long, to the point where it really doesn't stop completely without the drag from the transmission being in gear. I find myself starting it in gear with the clutch in to prevent the grinding as much as possible.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I finally got some time to change the belt. I got the green belt from NAPA. The part number was something like 5L830W. It is the same part number as the belt I removed. The new belt will not declutch at all.

There is minimal play in the vertical rod that goes from the clutch pedal to the clutch pulley, not enough that it seems should matter this much. Also, the flat idler adjustment is all the way up.

Accoding to an SS/16 manual that I have, it says that the centerline of the clutch pulley should be 7.5 inches above the top of the frame with the clutch pedal not depressed. It was not clear where to start the measurement. From the top of the side plate on the part of the frame directly below the pulley, the measurement was 6.75". From the surface that the engine mounts to (a little farther forward) the measurement is 7.5 inches.

It really seems that I need a little bit longer belt. Am I missing something here?
 

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Did you check the clutch pivot itself ? The bracket, the clutch pulley is mounted to, has a pivot that goes threw the side of the tractor frame. (That is what GT80 is talking about.)

That pivot bushing gets bad and when you push the clutch in, the pulley bracket goes to the side a little. The result is you loose part of the clutch throw.

The older models were different so depending on the manual your using it might not show it.
 

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Sometimes belts stretch after so much use. Some people have said to adjust the flat idler so as to get the clutch idler pulley the correct distance from the frame.

Other people have discussed using the correct belt for the application. Be sure to buy a belt that is made out of the correct material.

You might need to inspect your brake band to see if it needs to be relined, or replaced. The brake is supposed to be able to stop the tranny's motion also.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Small Fry, thank you. I misunderstood the pivot bushing comment to mean oblonged holes. I will take another look at this.

I am reasonably certain that I have the correct belt. The old belt is the same part number, and it decodes to what I have been told is the correct length. I bought the higher end power transmission (whatever they are called) belt, not an automotive belt.

From the diagrams of the transmission that I have seen, the brake is on the final stage of the output and stops the axles, but not the input if the transmission is in neutral. I don't think this will make a differnece. I have also replace the belt guides that I removed. I can't imagine there are any missing, as there is nowhere else to put one.
 

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2nd79,

One thing that you may want to check is the brake adjustment. If the brake is too tight, the pedal may not have enough travel to de-clutch.

I've seen tractors where the brake would grab( and the pedal would get tight), before the clutching action had stopped the drive belt.

You almost can't look at one without looking at the other. It's difficult to explain, but I found this on the sears group on yahoo.

Dave

_____________________________________________


"First does your tractor have a brake band, or does it have the disk
brake system.

Once we know that we can help you out farther. If it has a brake band,
is the brake lining still there or is it still good.

If it has a brake band, here is how I adjust mine. First I will go
through the adjustment for the brake, then the parking brake, then
the clutch.

Brake adjustment

1. first I push the brake pedal as far down as it will go, then tie
it there with a rope to the front axle so it holds it down while
making the adjustments.

2. Then with the tractor in neutral, try pushing the tractor, is it
moves then the brake needs adjusting.

3. under the tractor, in the middle of the break rod, there should be
what looks like a turnbuckle adjustment. it has a right hand tread
and a left hand tread, there should be a locking nut on one side or
the other, loosen it.

4. Now turn the adjustment so it makes the brake rod shorter, that
will put more pull on the brake ban, just turn it one turn at a time.

5. Now check to see if you can push the tractor, if you can't then
the adjustment was enough, tighten the lock nut back up, if the
tractor moved while pushing it then repeat step 4, until the tractor
cannot be pushed.

Parking brake adjustment



1. first I push the brake pedal as far down as it will go,then set
the parking brake lever.

2. Then with the tractor in neutral, try pushing the tractor, if it
moves then the brake needs adjusting.


3. Under the tractor, right by where the parking brake handle is
located there should be 2 nuts the are locked together, loosen them.
With the brake lever in the park position, tighten the nuts against
the brake mechanism so that they put added pull on the brake ban.

4. once again try pushing the tractor, if it moves those nuts need to
be adjusted again. If not then lock the 2 nuts together.

Clutch adjustment

1. first I push the brake pedal as far down as it will go, then tie
it there with a rope to the front axle so it holds it down while
making the adjustments.

2. With the tractor in NEUTRAL start the engine and see if the drive
belt is staying still or moving with the drive pulley on the engine,
it should be staying still at this point.

3. If the belt is staying still then there is no need for adjustment,
unless the belt is slipping while you are in gear and driving.

4. If the belt is moving with the drive pulley then adjustments need
to be made.

5. There are a couple of adjustments that can be done.

6. On the drive side of the tractor, right below the Dash, there
should be a slot, it has and idler pulley on the inside of the
tractor there.

7. with the brake/clutch pedal tied down at this point, you must
adjust that idler pulley so it makes the belt looser. then re-tighten
the idler.

8. with the tractor in NUETRAL restart the engine, see if the belt
still moves while the engine is running, if not it should be OK, if
it still still running repeat step 7

9. one of the most important part of the clutch system which gets
over looked is the belt guides on the drive pulley on the engine,
they have to be set so when the brake/clutch pedal is all the way
down, the the belt pushes against the guide on top of the drive
pulley. that guide has to be set so that the guide pushes the drive
belt out of the bottom of the drive pulley.

10. most important is that people forget that the engine is pulling
the belt from the bottom of the pulley, and the belt is running off
from the top of the pulley to the clutch pulley, which then put pull
on the belt to tighten it up to drive the trannys.

11. basically clutching and braking is just the opposite of the
engine driving the trans.

If you do all these adjustments, your tractor should work OK

Hope this helps

Joe "
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thank you.

I hadn't thought about the brake adjustment's impact on the clutch adjustment. Shortly before I started having probllems with the clutching, I had tightened the brake adjustment so that I could get the brake to engage a little sooner (my wife couldn't engage the brake). I loosened the brake by lengthening the brake rod,and the clutch pulley drops down enough for the tab on the clutch bracket to stop the belt.

The only issue I have with the procedure listed above is that my idler pulley is already at the top (loosest) of the adjustment slot. I just would like to get the brake to come in a little sooner.
 

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Just curious, have you checked the brake band? If the lining is worn out, it will take a lot of effort to stop the tractor, and it shouldn't. If it's metal to metal, that would explain why your wife was having so much trouble.

The brake lining, when new, is about 1/8" thick, and it causes the brake to come on a bit sooner.

just a thought.

Dave
 

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On a similar note, my 16 has a small gouge in the drive belt on the outside, when I look under it, the up & down rod that connects the clutch and the throw out idler has about an extra 1 1/2" of rod that sticks through bracket onteh bottom that looks to ride on the belt when disengaged, but mine is bent down which has caused the gouging. Is it supposed to be bent or straight across?
I too sometimes have the grinding issues so wondering if this could be an issue?
 

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On a similar note, my 16 has a small gouge in the drive belt on the outside, when I look under it, the up & down rod that connects the clutch and the throw out idler has about an extra 1 1/2" of rod that sticks through bracket onteh bottom that looks to ride on the belt when disengaged, but mine is bent down which has caused the gouging. Is it supposed to be bent or straight across?
I too sometimes have the grinding issues so wondering if this could be an issue?
If all the belt guides and other parts have been properly installed I would think the problem with gear grinding would be the flat idler being out of adjustment. Make sure all the washers and the finger are put on in the correct order like the parts section shows them in the manual.

I adjusted my 1973 ST16's flat idler bolt about an inch down from the bottom of the dash and it works great. My clutch idler is not at 6-1/2" per the manual but it still works well.
 

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On a similar note, my 16 has a small gouge in the drive belt on the outside, when I look under it, the up & down rod that connects the clutch and the throw out idler has about an extra 1 1/2" of rod that sticks through bracket onteh bottom that looks to ride on the belt when disengaged, but mine is bent down which has caused the gouging. Is it supposed to be bent or straight across?
I too sometimes have the grinding issues so wondering if this could be an issue?
Tahoe99,

Is this the piece you're talking about? Mine sticks out about 1 1/2" and has a slight bend on the last 1/2" also.

I've had problems with it dragging on the belt and gouging it also.

 

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Dave...exactly. Gouging outside of belt so not really a big deal. Mine may just need fine adjustment or I need to wait just a hair longer before shifting gears:fing32:
I know I need to replace brake lining and adjust it, maybe a little of my problem too. Everything feels tight, but then I did have the squealing bearing from the rear idler so maybe it's slightly wore causing mis-alignment.
 
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