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Landscaping Nut
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Discussion Starter #1
How do you measure hydraulic hose assemblies. I've got to replace two hoses to power a tiller and need to know how to define the diameter.

Is it by the outside diameter as measure the outer outside thread diameter or is it the inside bore diameter. Also how about the quick release couplings. The ones on it now are stepped up/down using galvanized plumbing fittings among other things.

Thanks
 

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Premium Member
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Let me give you a few points for your project. I'm a mechanical design engineer and have spent a bit of time designing hydraulic systems on heavy equipment.

As to your first question, pipe sizes don't align accurately with anything anymore. The ID of pipe used to match with the ID of schedule 40 pipe (not fittings). My current charts show it being closer to that for schedule 80 pipe now. For an accurate check, you need to cross reference to a chart. This link shows one good set of measurements.
http://www.fairburyfastener.com/xdims_pipe_threads.htm

If this machine has been cobbled before, you may want to check the ports carefully and make sure that they were set up for pipe. I've seen people cram pipe fittings into other types of ports because they didn't / couldn't take the time to do the job right. I have a fitting identification kit that can turn in really handy. If you work on a lot of misc. machinery, you may want to get one. It's made by Eaton / Aeroquip. The book that comes with it is very detailed and free to download. Here is the link.
http://www.eatonhydraulics.com/products/pdfs/fc/e-srov-ts009-e.pdf

I hope that this helps. Best of luck.
 

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A couple of other points you may want to consider if you don't have exact hoses to copy.

1. Leave a little slack in your hydraulic lines. They act like chinese finger puzzles when you pressurize them. As the pressure goes up, the length of the hose shortens. If the hose is too short, it can actually pull itself out of it's end fitting. Make your routing as clean as possible, avoiding tight bends and sharp edges. Watch the manufacturer's recommendations for hose bend radii. You can go sharper, but hose life will suffer.

2. If you have end fittings that are not straight, make sure you mock up the hose and note the angle between the fittings. Once crimped, you can't rotate fittings relative to each other. I've clocked them wrong (usually the wrong direction), and then you have to make the hose assembly again.

3. When installing hoses, secure them well, but don't tie wrap two hoses directly to each other. They will rub against each other and wear out quickly. The tie wrap will cut into the hose. The best thing are dedicated clamps like Stauff. For paired hoses like those running to hydraulic cylinders, I will either use a paired stauff clamp set, or a special wide double tie wrap that incorporates a spacer so the hoses don't rub against each other.

If you need any more information, just let me know. I thought that these were tips most anyone could find useful.
 

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Landscaping Nut
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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks Loremaster. That was very helpful info. I'm not too worried about the flexible hose for my tiller as it will just hang in the air between tractor and tiller. Don't think they will see that much use. Only question I have is 1 wire or two wire type. I think one will do. They had sae100r1 type hoses on there and lasted many years.

I need to get some dedicated clamps for the metal tubing used for my auxiliary pto plumbing as one jumps when fluid flow changes speed/direction. Right now they are tie wrapped to frame and the pair rub. There made from factory for this install but being used they developed a flat spot wear where they have touched over the years in previous tractor install. Theres not much room in there for clamps but will have to try and work something out.
 

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you are going to want a 1/2" 3500psi hose for that tiller.
good call replaceing them also. I had one burst before!!! NO FUN!! I was lucky... I had just started it. If it was hot, I would have been on my ay to the hospotal!!!

As for the solid lines... Cover at least one of them with a peice of heater, or garden hose slit down the lenght. That will stopp any chaffing/rubbing, and take a lot of the buzz out of the system also.
 

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You have gotten good advice so far....
I have dealt w/ hyd. hoseing for 20 years @ the company I work for--have been to several training seminars/classes--so here are my thoughts..
When you are talking '1 or 2-wire"--you are dealing with the pressure rateing for the hose itself...Most hose manuf.--i.e. Parker /Aeroquip use different design ends (look a little different), but do the same job.

I would go w/ AT LEAST @2- wire--3,000-3,500 P.S.I. You can also have abrasion sleeveing put over one or both hoses, to keep down the wear. You never want to use 'galvanized fittings' in a hyd. oil system--the gal. coating tends to fleck off over a peiod of time--ingesting into the system. If you don't have the right couplers in hyd. plumbing--black steel pipe will do.
Hoses are not that expensive anymore.....
As far as the quick-couplers for the end--male/female--they must be the same brand/style. They have to mate w/ each other--they won't mix up--
Pioneer makes a lot of them for farm implement companies--including JD.
Take your old hoses to a good hydraulic shop, or even NAPA--they should be able to fix you up...
 

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How do you measure hydraulic hose assemblies. I've got to replace two hoses to power a tiller and need to know how to define the diameter.

Is it by the outside diameter as measure the outer outside thread diameter or is it the inside bore diameter. Also how about the quick release couplings. The ones on it now are stepped up/down using galvanized plumbing fittings among other things.

Thanks
Let me explain how us smart folks do it-

Remove hose, take to hydraulic shop, lay on counter, ask hydro hose guy to make matching replacements, ask how much? if you agree to the price then stand there for 15 minutes, find something interesting to stare at, when he returns to the counter pay him, smile and thank him and leave.

See it's that simple and it didn't take an engineer.

Scott
 

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Landscaping Nut
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1,362 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Let me explain how us smart folks do it-

Remove hose, take to hydraulic shop, lay on counter, ask hydro hose guy to make matching replacements, ask how much? if you agree to the price then stand there for 15 minutes, find something interesting to stare at, when he returns to the counter pay him, smile and thank him and leave.

See it's that simple and it didn't take an engineer.

Scott
I've got to buy it online. Went to one local shop, for previous marine hydraulic project. They didn't want to be bothered. Seems they cater to large commerical issues. I like buying on line. CS is usually better.
 

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I've got to buy it online. Went to one local shop, for previous marine hydraulic project. They didn't want to be bothered. Seems they cater to large commerical issues. I like buying on line. CS is usually better.
Take it to a farm implement dealer like John Deere or who ever.They will make them up as you wait.Boat places are for boats.
 

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Landscaping Nut
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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
you are going to want a 1/2" 3500psi hose for that tiller.
good call replaceing them also. I had one burst before!!! NO FUN!! I was lucky... I had just started it. If it was hot, I would have been on my ay to the hospotal!!!

As for the solid lines... Cover at least one of them with a peice of heater, or garden hose slit down the lenght. That will stopp any chaffing/rubbing, and take a lot of the buzz out of the system also.
How true! Just today secound time out cutting grass with the pto installed and hooked up, some new buzzing sound coming somewhere 'around back'. Grapped each line and found that sound was from those lines vibrating against each other.

I'll try some of that split hose for that.

Those line do get hot. Found that out wed after 1 hr cutting front. Today was a twenty minute with pipes just getting nice and warm.

I think I've got my list together for what I need. Will order on monday.

Thanks
 

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NAPA makes hoses. It's not the length of hose that costs it's the fittings.

You should have steel supply lines through the tractor frame, should be 3/8, no point in using larger diameter hoses as the steel lines have already gauged the flow, further your quick-connects will gauge/reduce moreso anyway.

There are hydraulic shops in most metros.

Expect to pay $50 per including fittings.

Scott
 

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A couple of other points you may want to consider if you don't have exact hoses to copy.

1. Leave a little slack in your hydraulic lines....

2. If you have end fittings that are not straight, make sure you mock up the hose and note the angle between the fittings....

3. When installing hoses, secure them well, but don't tie wrap two hoses directly to each other....

If you need any more information, just let me know. I thought that these were tips most anyone could find useful.

Loremaster71,

Although ‘we’ tend to go the quick and easy way when addressing our problems…It’s very good to know the engineering side of how and why products are produced.

After a problem installing direct, spliced 90° fittings into the high pressure side of a hydraulic system, which caused ‘chatter’, vibration, slow operation of rams and overheating, I talked with a Koyker engineer. His advice, like yours, was to replace the 90° fittings with the gentle sweep fittings. Being suspicious of a cure all (@ $18.50 each), I installed (replaced) the two fittings and eliminated all of the above problems And especially pleased with the results of increased flow/speed of the FEL rams.

Thanks for sharing the inside look of how setups should be done.

Mark
 

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I Love All Color Tractors
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It's amazing how we take for granted what we see everyday and not think twice about it.

I have an Exxon station three miles away from me that is under private ownership. The new owner used to run an auto parts store. I guess he got tired of fooling with auto parts because he closed in the two bay doors and stocked a full line of logging supplies. He carries chainsaws and parts, load binders, binder chains, hydro oil, engine oils, and for me most importantly, a huge assortment of hydraulic hose and fittings with the press to make any hose anyone would want.

The last hose that I needed was on a Sunday afternoon. I stopped in with the old hose. In less than 10 minutes, I had a new hose made, about 8 feet long, for about $20.

Needless to say, when I need gasoline or anything thing else that he carries, I stop and buy there. This guy is local, he employs 3 or 4 locals, and the monies stay local. I just can't say enough in favor of this guy. He's got a great place.
 

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I'll add these comments to my earlier ones. Others have posted a lot of other good points I didn't, including rub shielding for hoses and problems from short radius elbows. I see a lot of well done repairs on this site, and I've performed some quick fixes to get a job done and tide me over. The biggest problem comes when you are repairing 2nd hand (or older) equipment, and you don't know what the owner ahead of you rigged. I've seen pipe fittings jammed into other type ports, and someone wondering why it's leaking. When you understand why something goes together a certain way, you can avoid problems. I hate having to fix something twice, and even more when the second failure was due to my own lack of forethought.

As another note, stuff is not always done right the first time. I've seen problem installations on production equipment, and have had to develop field retrofit kits to fix said problem. I remember one case where we had a hose (over 6000 psi, 1" dia) that was breaking off the stauff clamp securing it due to pressure cycling and the direction it bent coming out of the clamp. The hose turned right after this clamp, and it was literally snapping the bolts by bending them sideways, and over a fairly short number of operating hours. I still have one of the double wide series clamps we used for the fix siting on my desk.

Sometimes cost concerns result in a part being put together too cheaply, and it's nice to do the job right. Clamps can be skimped on. You can get a lot of good ideas from looking at other equipment and how it's assembled. When you have a tool you use a lot, sometimes it's a real benefit to upgrade some of the features and make it work the way you need it to, or make it easier to service in the future.
 
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