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Old Engineer
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For many years I have admired this small tractor, seems "heavy duty", I like the big wheels, and know that a horizontal opposed twin cylinder engine is probably the best setup for low vibration. Now I can afford to buy one.

My IH Cub Cadet mows the lawn OK (1 acre), and it has been a reliable machine, but: now I have to tow my new steamboat trailer out of the workshop, up a grass hill, and around the house to the driveway to be hitched to the FORD BRONCO. The boat weighs a ton (literally) and the Cub Cadet is too small for this duty, so it is time to replace it. I could use the BRONCO, but it is too big for the tight maneuvering space I have.

I really have no experience with the CASE, is it a good reliable machine? What typical problems should I look for on a used machine? Can I get it with a mower deck 50 - 60 inch? Are there variations that are the same tractor, such as Case-Ingersol, Massey? How much should I pay for a machine in very good condition?

Thanks in advance for info.

Fred Rosse
 

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Case made these tractors from 1965 to 1983 when they sold their Outdoor Power Equipment Division to John Ingersoll. From 1984 to 1986, the name on the tractor slowly changed from Case to Ingersoll and they are known as Ingersoll's to this very day.

I would suggest that you try and find a good, low hour 4020PS Ingersoll for your needs. They are available with a 60 inch cutting deck. Reliability is excellent. They have a 2 speed trans-axle plus the exclusive hydraulic drive with hydraulic lift for the deck. The 4020PS has power steering, a feature you will appreciate when manuevering that trailer. Expect to pay anywhere from $1800.00 to $3000.00, depending upon year, hours on the clock, options and attachments.

A new machine with deck is likely pushing the ten grand mark today but perhaps Brian will comment on that. Go to http://www.ingersolltractors.com
and acquaint yourself with their current offerings.
 

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Actually, there are a couple more options, which you will also find in the Ingersoll site. The 4018 or 4020 with out PS, will run as much as $500 cheaper. The 448 ,pre '59 didn't offer PS, but a good one will also do the same job, but much cheaper. $1000 will by a good one with a 60 inch deck.

As CGToo suggested, check out the options and look around a bit! Either way, you will be happy you made the choice!
 

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Ingersoll Dealer
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Given the stated trailer duty you are discussing, by all means you must get a unit with a holding valve to prevent downhill run aways.

This may be built in (post-'85MY) or added on (small valve between drive motor and travel control valve). You do not want to encounter a hill without it! Even then, 2000 lbs can push around a garden tractor pretty quickly ... but done cautiously and on a hill that is not too steep, this should be OK.

Once you find one, feel free to ask back here on the particulars of the holding valve.

Good luck with your search.

Brian
 

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Fred,

Yes! These are very strong and reliable tractors that have few problems if maintained properly. There are really just two things that can wear out, the engine and the hydraulic pump, but there are a lot of 30+ year old original tractors that are still running strong. The engine is the most likely source of expensive repairs so you should look for evidence of burning oil or bad compression--a total engine rebuild will cost around $1700 but then the engine is good for about 3000 hrs.

Prices for a good running tractor and deck will run from $500 to $1500 depending on age and condition. Tractors with optional accessories like a rear PTO and 3 pt hitch will cost more.
 

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Guys. Let's not confuse him. Everyone is right but no one is making him understand what he would be getting for the money you are quoting.

4020PS's began production in 1993 and continued until at least 2000. Our chart doesn't provide info newer than 2000. So, if you choose a tractor with power steering, it could be nine years old or sixteen years old. What matters most is the number of hours showing on the clock and whether that number is true or not. Ingersoll did not have power steering on any of their GT's prior to 1993.

Bart (I believe) is pricing tractors that were made much earlier and could date back to 1980 for that kind of money..... again.. depending upon condition etc.

Rol is somewhere between Bart and myself.

Low cost tractors are likely to come with issues that will command your attention either immediately or in the near future. My thoughts were that you were seeking something that had no problems right now and still had several years of service in it before needing repairs of any kind. How mechanically inclined are you?

Here is a very nice Ingersoll on e-Bay right now. http://tinyurl.com/kkbgfs

It has the holding valve on it but comes with a 48" deck.

There is also this one. http://tinyurl.com/l8yq5h

but as sweet looking as it is, I am having problems with understanding why it needed a new deck with 6 years back and why it needed "reconditioning" seven years back when it allegedly has under 600 hours on it.

Neither tractor has power steering.

You can help by telling us what your budget is. Aside from shifting the trailer and cutting grass, what else do you want it to do? Having a three-point hitch would allow you to back up to the trailer and then lift it hydraulically to move it. Once you get where you're going, you can lower it hydraulically.

This can be a huge boon if space is so tight that you have to reposition the tractor several times to shift the trailer.
 

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The 446 and the 448 are the same tractor ( 2 hp. ) differance. With the 60" mowerdeck the 2 HP. may come in handy but not a deal breaker.
 

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I think all the advice you've received is good and not really contradictory because we are talking about tractors over a fairly broad range of years and condition. Only you can decide how much you want to spend and what are high priority features. If you are looking for a pretty clean tractor with power steering and a 60" deck I think $3,000 is about right. The 60" decks for the newer tractors (4000 series) are harder to come by than the older left hand models used on the 400 series. Figure adding another $500 if you want one with a 3 pt hitch.

I used my tractors to shuffle trailers around frequently and don't think the power steering is a big issue for that purpose but it is nice for mowing.

If you buy a 400 series and want to use a 60" deck make sure it has the longer frame (2" longer) so that you have adequate clearance underneath for the deck.

Another thing you will need if moving heavy trailers is weight on the front which can be accomplished with the optional weight box or less elegantly with a homemade weight system. The weight box cannot be used with the mower deck in place as it attaches in the same place.
 

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"Ingersoll did not have power steering on any of their GT's prior to 1993."

I will argue with CGtoo on the above qoute, I have a '90 4018 with factory power steering. I didn't check just now, but am pretty sure the 1989 year model, the beginning of the 3 & 4000 series was the first offering of P.S.
 

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Old Engineer
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Discussion Starter #10
I am a mechanical engineer in the power industry, and I have metal working equipment at home (two 12 x 36 lathes, milling machine, etc.), MIG, TIG, Stick and Torch welders (I don't like to lose arguments with metal). However I am very busy with my day job and the steamboat project, so I do not want to get a "fixer-upper". About $1000 to $2000 will be spent, maybe more for a real jewel. The two tractors mentioned on e-bay look good, but are too far away, I am near Philadelphia PA, and would only consider about 500 miles round trip.

Thanks to all for the good advice, I have some time, so I will keep looking.
 

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Actually, I just showed those two to you as examples of what is out there currently. I have sent an e-mail to a buddy that lives in PA to see if he has something that would suit you. Hopefully, I will hear back from him shortly so stay tuned to this thread.

Are you building a paddle-wheeler? And if so, is it a stern-wheeler or side-wheeler? If not, then I presume that it's prop driven. What's the length and beam?
 

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"Ingersoll did not have power steering on any of their GT's prior to 1993."

I will argue with CGtoo on the above qoute, I have a '90 4018 with factory power steering. I didn't check just now, but am pretty sure the 1989 year model, the beginning of the 3 & 4000 series was the first offering of P.S.
Argue away. No resistance at this end. You're the Ingy guy, not me. :ROF I was just working off the chart and looking for stuff with PS as a suffix.
 

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Argue away. No resistance at this end. You're the Ingy guy, not me. :ROF I was just working off the chart and looking for stuff with PS as a suffix.
No arguement? Now you spoil the fun! LOL

What I should have said was to : disagree" with--- Not "argue.""
 

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That....... is one beautiful engine. You do some super fine work, Fred. Congrats. Are you building the complete boat too? If so, will it be a steel hull or are you a proficient carpenter as well?

Presumably, this will be a closed system that will recover the water and then feed it back to the boiler. Will the boiler be propane fired? Will you be heating a tank full of water or will you have a coil of copper tubing that will convert the h20 to steam?
 

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Others can speak for themselves but what I see in those listings is mostly overpriced junk except for the last one. There's value in that one and the source of that tractor is a known one. However, the package contains items that the OP doesn't need and the tractor is far from pretty.
 

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Old Engineer
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Discussion Starter #19
I'm sorry to be off topic, but steam power is my work and fun. I have to build the boat hull, because of the relatively narrow beam required with paddlewheels. It will be a simple "Sharpie" type hull, of plywood, fiberglass covered. I have built other boats, and usually start with a good fiberglass sailboat hull, they go for a song on e-bay if they have a broken mast, or bad sails. I am currently running a 14 ft O'day Javelin hull with an inboard electric setup, swinging a 14 inch three blade prop, about 5 mph, 20 mile range.

The new steam plant will be a closed condensing system, so the water is constantly recovered and re-fed to the boiler. The boiler will be a "gunboat" type, very similar to a small locomotive boiler, except with the furnace entirely enclosed by water cooled surfaces. Wood or coal firing will be the norm, although I can put a large propane "weed burner" into the firebox when I don't want to tend a fire.
 

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Fred,
I sent you a private message. Please check your in box and then let me know you received it.

Don't worry about your steam boat project being off topic. This is your thread and we've pretty much exhausted the original intent of it. Anyone who appreciates the Case tractors can't help but appreciate the beauty of that engine you built.
 
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