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Discussion Starter #1
Looking at the orginal K-361 engine on my PK and there are very few parts available and I would like to change over to something else. I called my local Kohler dealer and they told me that there is not a replacement for this engine in the Kohler line or any other line of engines he has. I could change over to one of the new Kohler 18 (single or twin cylinder) but there is no way to put the front PTO on the new engines. I am considering getting rid of the belly mower and just using the tractor for pulling and garden work. I can always use my Gravelys for grass cutting and bush hogging. Does anyone know of an engine that will fit this tractor? The replacment will have to have the boss cut in the crankcase for bell housing aligment and have the correct crankshaft size.

BUD
 

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Looking at the orginal K-361 engine on my PK and there are very few parts available and I would like to change over to something else. I called my local Kohler dealer and they told me that there is not a replacement for this engine in the Kohler line or any other line of engines he has. I could change over to one of the new Kohler 18 (single or twin cylinder) but there is no way to put the front PTO on the new engines. I am considering getting rid of the belly mower and just using the tractor for pulling and garden work. I can always use my Gravelys for grass cutting and bush hogging. Does anyone know of an engine that will fit this tractor? The replacment will have to have the boss cut in the crankcase for bell housing aligment and have the correct crankshaft size.

BUD
You can use the 12 or 14 HP Kohler or the harder to find 16 HP Briggs.As you stated,you will need a flange mount block and 1 1/8 crank.You can use an 1" crank if you use the 1' flywheel.
 

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Mission Manufacturing had some kohler 16hp engines for these tractors in stock. I don't know if they have any left but it might be worth a shot.

http://www.powerkingtractor.com/
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I found Kustomsmallengine.com while looking at Gravely stuff on e-bay. They will build me a remanufactured 14HP COMPLETE, add oil and drop in for $1000.00. I am really considering this because if I do this engine swap, I will be rid of that troublesome 18 HP K-361 that you can't get parts for and no wants to fool with.

Has anyone had dealings with Kustomsmallengine.com? They knew what a PK was and what was needed to make a drop in fit. I asked many questions and they were able to answer 99% of them. Very knowledgeable people.

I value any input good or bad.

BUD
 

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You can also consider a Kohler Magnum M14, which is really just an updated version of the K321. Some retailers still have this engine available (NorthernTool). That is what I am using on my 1614.
 

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Bud,
Check out this guy. I emailed him about putting a new engine on a 2418 and he said he could even put a clutch on the front. Here's what he said:
Jim's Repair/Jim's Tractors <[email protected]>Add to Contacts
To: Dave Dooley <[email protected]>

Hi Dave,

Yes if you want a clutch I will install one for you on the engine. Let me know.

Thanks,

Jim

1-800-618-8738

651-208-7199

651-437-2751

Jim's Repair/Jim's Tractors

http://www.jimsrepairjimstractors.com

Simply the best used garden tractors & attachments to be found

We specialize in repowering your good equipment

Check out the new ATV UTV & RTV Snowblowers!

http://www.jimsrepairjimstractors.com/ATV-UTV-RTV-attachments.htm

Call us toll free 1-800-618-8738

From: Dave Dooley [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 8:07 PM
To: [email protected]; [email protected]
Subject:

If you put a Vangard on a Power King, can it be set up with a sheave for the front PTO mule drive?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
PK, I think the Vanguard has the correct bolt pattern on the back of the crankcase, but it doesn't have the boss/flange cut in the back of the crankcase. This boss/flange insures the bell housing is in correct alignment. I think if this alignment is not perfect, it will result in worn out clutch parts or transmission input shaft problems. I talked to Small Engine Warehouse and he told me could make an adapter out of aluminum to install a clutch for the PTO on the front of the engine. "Make it out of aluminum", I really don't think aluminum will hold up to the forces that will be applied to this part. I really like the Vanguard, I wish we could make it work. There has to be a reason why people are not putting Vanguard engines in Power Kings. They would make a nice repower engine for Power Kings, Economys and Jim Dandys.

I tried to talk to Jim, but the line was always busy, I'll try again.

BUD
 

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If the adapter can be made from aluminum, it can ge made from any metal. Technically speaking, it's just a matter if proper cutting tools and fee rates. I vote for titaninum over aluminum.

I'm still working on getting the "Mystery Mule" solved. I bought a complete one just like the exploded diagram, so now I know what all the parts look like. Some of the parts were/are froze on the shafts but not the idlers or pullys so I got it sort of working. Still not comfortable with the setup though. More research I guess! If I can't get them to break loose I'll fab a new one from scratch. I'll keep you posted.
 

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Before you installed a vanguard, you might as well find a Kohler magnum to drop in there.

I don't know if it is true or not, but I have heard that the briggs have a different rotation than the kohlers.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I talked to Jim yesterday and he can remember selling a few Vangaurds to Power King owners, but didn't keep in touch with them to see what kind of problems they had or how the conversion turned out. He has never done a conversion from Kohler to Vanguard in a Power King, so he was doing a lot of guessing. Biggest problem is the boss/flange on the Kohler block that is used for aligment of the bell housing, the Vanguard doesn't have one. He said you would have to build something with the boss/flange and bolt it to the Vanguard. He thinks he can come up with an adapter to mount the front PTO on, but wasn't sure. I really didn't have a warm fuzzy feeling after I talked to him, he was VERY unsure on a lot of the questions I asked. I think he does tractors that use belts (easy, put the pulley on and bolt up the engine) and not tractors that use real clutch and steel GEARS.

If I had the parts, engine and another Power King, I think I could machine a boss in the Vanguard crank case and make it work. Would make an intresting winter project. But Power King and Gravelys are VERY, VERY, RARE where I
live, so not much out there to work with. Besides I am about out of room with tractors, hit & miss engines, shop, garden, and trailers. I need 5 acres.

BUD

BUD
 

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As long as the flywheel housing bolt holes lined up, I think that you would be fine without the flange. The engine bolts directly to the frame, so it isn't going anywhere.

I had gone down the road of thinking about using a kohler (k301) motor without the flange. I almost installed it, but it was a motor out of a JD and I would also had to figure out a different oil pan (they had the narrow pans) for it.

With the vanguard, I don't know if the hood would fit (if you were going to use a hood). The side rails probably wouldn't fit either, they barely fit with the kohler motor.
 

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I found Kustomsmallengine.com while looking at Gravely stuff on e-bay. They will build me a remanufactured 14HP COMPLETE, add oil and drop in for $1000.00. I am really considering this because if I do this engine swap, I will be rid of that troublesome 18 HP K-361 that you can't get parts for and no wants to fool with.

Has anyone had dealings with Kustomsmallengine.com? They knew what a PK was and what was needed to make a drop in fit. I asked many questions and they were able to answer 99% of them. Very knowledgeable people.

I value any input good or bad.

BUD
Where is this place located? I found a place called Kustom in Minerva Ohio over this passed summer from Ebay also. I emailed first then talked over the phone. They rebuilt my 9 hrs briggs off my 65 Jim Dandy and did a fine job. They did a 20 over bore and rebuilt the carb. I got it back, took it home, bolted it on and remade all the wiring. I replaced everything electrical and cleaned out the gas tank while it was down. Then I added oil, and she was running in 5 minutes. No smoke. No strange noises. I ran a few tanks of gas through it so far and been pullin everyhing under the sun. My daughter pulls the tracor locally also. So I guess to make a short story long, if there in Minirva Ohio, I would say they'll treat you right.
 

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I have a 1976 Jim Dandy that has been temporarily repowered with a 10 - 12 year old 16HP Vanguard. I was in the process of rebuilding the K321 for my Jim Dandy when a friend offered me the Vanguard. He bought it to replace a 10HP Briggs that came on his 1966 Power King. He never installed it and gave it to me. I also managed to get his old Power King which needs a lot of work. When I have time to rebuild the K321, I will put it back in the Jim Dandy and use the Vanguard on the Power King.

I had more problems than I expected getting the Vanguard to work. I think it would have been quicker to just rebuild the K321. Here are some of the issues I had.

1) I used the bell housing from the Power King because my friend had already had an insert made to fit the bell housing. I am not sure that it does anything except reduce the amount of debris entering the housing. The bolt holes on the bell housing matched up with the mounting holes on the Vanguard.

2) I do not know if the Vanguard comes with different shaft sizes, but the one I have has a one inch shaft instead of 1 1/8". The original Briggs motor for the Power King also had a 1" shaft, so I used its clutch flywheel which was made to fit on a 1" shaft.

3) The biggest issue was that the Vanguard did not have the flange cut to fit the bell housing. This caused the bell housing so sit farther from the engine. When I put the clutch flywheel on the shaft, it sat about an inch too far away from the transmission. I had to have an adapter machined and welded to the end of the clutch flywheel closest to the engine. That allowed enough bearing surface between the flywheel and the shaft.

4) The clutch flywheel I was using from the Power King originally had a larger belt pully mounted on it in place of one of the three pully grooves machined into the flywheel. That pulley was used to run an external starter/alternator with the original Briggs engine. I had to have the third pully groove machined into the flywheel to run my hydrolic system on the Jim Dandy.

5) I had to shim the Vanguard up higher than the old Kohler. This is a temporary arrangement because I intend to remove the Vanguard in the future.

6) The Vanguard is physically wider than the Kohler. My 1976 Jim Dandy has the new style hood which has rails that run beside the engine. The hood would not fit without modification. The older style hood on the 1966 Power king does not have the rails and I think I can modify it to work with the Vanguard when I finally fix the Power King.

7) The Vanguard engine is lighter than the Kohler. Since I did not replace the hood and front grill, the front end is about 60 pounds lighter and I was having trouble keeping the front wheels on the ground. I have added weight to the front which has solved that problem.

8) My wife thinks the tractor looks like a redneck tractor without a hood and with weights sticking out in front.

All in all, I am happy. But that is mainly because I will eventually have two working tractors. If I were to keep the Vanguard in the Jim Dandy, I would want to modify the hood somehow to make it look better.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I think the issues you conquered in your refit are the main reason why you don't see Vanguard engines in Power King. I would sure like to do one, they sure look nice.

BUD
 
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