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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Been a while since I posted about my JD-400 with an FEL & Backhoe.
The rear tires were recently replaced, rims refurbished and brakes adjusted.
Since the refurb, I've been working the little guy like a $5 horse and it's paid for itself 10 times over.

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I originally did a partial rebuild on backhoe controller, which started leaking recently.
It's declined to where nothing holds and I'm forced to do it right this time.... my bad.
:(

I broke apart the spools to reveal the separator O-rings and some seepage. I need ALL the O-rings to do it right.
Can't find any manufacturers marks or other identifiers so assume this is a standard design.
Also can't find any specs on the O-ring sizes and would prefer not to guess...

Font Parallel Music Rectangle Diagram


The spools need new wiper rings - which are u-shaped (can't remember the name).
There's also a wiper ring inset into the top of the spool block to seal the control ends where come out.


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I haven't looked closely at the spool block separator rings, but suspect they are round.


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There are also some very thin cellophane wafer seals between the 3 holes for the clamping rods - one on each half.
I would have missed them if one hadn't peeled up a bit.


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The Brantly manual shows a 2-control option for the backhoe. I'm wondering if I might be better off buying a new controller rather than go through the hassle of rebuilding this one.
However, there's a really good O-ring store near me which stocks about everything you can imagine.....and they're cheap.


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Thots...ridicule...admonishments?
 

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Been a while since I posted about my JD-400 with an FEL & Backhoe.
The rear tires were recently replaced, rims refurbished and brakes adjusted.
Since the refurb, I've been working the little guy like a $5 horse and it's paid for itself 10 times over.

View attachment 2527578

View attachment 2527580

View attachment 2527581


View attachment 2527582


I originally did a partial rebuild on backhoe controller, which started leaking recently.
It's declined to where nothing holds and I'm forced to do it right this time.... my bad.
:(

I broke apart the spools to reveal the separator O-rings and some seepage. I need ALL the O-rings to do it right.
Can't find any manufacturers marks or other identifiers so assume this is a standard design.
Also can't find any specs on the O-ring sizes and would prefer not to guess...

View attachment 2527572

The spools need new wiper rings - which are u-shaped (can't remember the name).
There's also a wiper ring inset into the top of the spool block to seal the control ends where come out.


View attachment 2527583

I haven't looked closely at the spool block separator rings, but suspect they are round.

View attachment 2527573

View attachment 2527574

There are also some very thin cellophane wafer seals between the 3 holes for the clamping rods - one on each half.
I would have missed them if one hadn't peeled up a bit.


View attachment 2527575

The Brantly manual shows a 2-control option for the backhoe. I'm wondering if I might be better off buying a new controller rather than go through the hassle of rebuilding this one.
However, there's a really good O-ring store near me which stocks about everything you can imagine.....and they're cheap.


View attachment 2527576


Thots...ridicule...admonishments?
Well I've used both the two joystick controllers and separate levers. I found the joystick controllers really make working a back hoe intuitive, I was never good with the separate levers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Well I've used both the two joystick controllers and separate levers. I found the joystick controllers really make working a back hoe intuitive, I was never good with the separate levers.
That's my experience as well. No matter how long I'm on it - I get the out-in backwards on the control because they aren't the same for each. The backhoe arms get jerked around the wrong way and it's caused damage because of it. The joystick would make things a whole lot easier.

Any suggestions for brands and type?
 

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You might want to get @TUDOR to give you some advice there, I'm not an aficionado on hydraulic controls. Good luck and I hope you can get it changed over.
 

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Glad you did an update. You were missed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
You might want to get @TUDOR to give you some advice there, I'm not an aficionado on hydraulic controls. Good luck and I hope you can get it changed over.
@TUDOR monitors this forum so hoping he will respond at some point. I need to get the little green guy back to work!
 

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4 lever controls are harder to use, but if you run them enough you can get good at it.
Granted there are some awkward lever combinations that you have to use sometimes, but it is doable.

The twin wobble sticks would be easier to dig with, but you will be into replacing some hoses and fabricating a mount.
If the machine is going to sit outside, I would get a 5 gallon bucket to cover the wobble sticks and linkages as best I could, and keep them lubricated.
Otherwise you will find they start binding and wear a little fast.
 

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O-rings are standard and available at hardware and auto parts stores. Measure the outer diameter and the diameter of the stock they are made from with a tape measure or digital calipers, or take one of each size to the store for comparison. The best place is a hydraulics shop which should be able to get the cup shaped wipers as well. The cellophane spacers are just that, spacers, used to make up for any machining marks that may be proud of the surface that they are on. Cigarette packages used to be the easiest source for cellophane to make replacements, but cookie or baked goods packaging works as well. Either re-use the ones that you have or cut new ones with an exacto knife or a Cri-Cut.

Sectional spool valves are expensive to buy, but cheap to add extra valve sections for more functions. Unless you have deep pockets, reseal and get used to the individual sticks. The inlet and outlet sections total $110.75 for the basic open center. The power beyond outlet section will cost a bit more. The work sections cost $91.95 each and the tie rod bolts are extra and cost according to the number of sections. Total price will be over $675 for a straight stick valve set. The 6-spool joystick valve set is $976.40, and power beyond may add to that.

Sectional Control Valves | Hydraulic Valves | Hydraulics | www.surpluscenter.com

Joystick Valves | Hydraulic Valves | Hydraulics | www.surpluscenter.com

Don't kid yourself, you will do just as much banging on stuff until you get the hang of a joystick set, and it all goes out the window if you are standing beside the machine while making small adjustments for placing something with the bucket when working alone. Muscle memory doesn't do much good when you are using the opposite hand to operate the controls.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Awww Heck..... :cautious: I knew there wasn't a magic low-cost solution.

OK - pulling out the old one's and off to the o-ring store for some Buna O's. Also have to take apart the relief bypass valve to replace those rings. I don't smoke, so will have to either swipe a pack from someone or improvise the block spacers.

The maintenance never ends when you own old machinery. But hey....that's part of the joy too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Ran everything through the sonic cleaner, including the spools - just because. Might as well get every bit of debris and deposits out while it's cracked open.

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Rinsed and hosed with WD-40 so they wouldn't flash-rust while sitting.

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Inspected all the surfaces, bores and pieces for minute imperfections and couldn't find anything suspicious.

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Installed the o-rings after wiping clean and dry - or at least a very light film of WD.

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Now waiting for the quad-rings for the ends of the spools and inside the top of the spool blocks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I have everything prepped and ready to assemble. Only missing one fitting for the new, 1800 psi, main relief valve to finish setting up the system. The valve is between the pump and backhoe controller, which diverts anything over 1850 psi back to the tank. The backhoe controller uses 1800psi and believe the blown seals were due to being over pressured from the pump putting out 2800 psi directly to it. I don't think the controller relief/bypass valve was set correctly.

I rigged up a pressure tester so the system can be accurately balance.

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Figured I'm all-in on the BH controller rebuild so took the time to use a cobalt grinder to open up and even out the passage openings between blocks. They cut the blocks across the cast cavities and didn't always open the channel in the right spot and/or had a ragged hole.
Selected an appropriate shape size to open the holes.

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One to open and one to bevel the opening and debur.

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The 'BEFORE' below was actually better than the others, which had smaller and jagged holes.

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Wood Tool Auto part Composite material Metal


Then put the blocks on a belt sander with 600 carbide grit. This removed the varnish and much of the cutting swirls on the block face.
The passages are open much wider and still well inside the o-ring seal.


Helmet White Sports gear Font Dice game


I'm a bit concerned about the spool ends where they come out the top for control arms. This is where they started to first leak. I buffed them on wheel using Tripoli compound, being careful not to remove any metal. This got the varnish/rust off them, but they are pitted and can feel there's a slight indent in the shaft where the X-o-ring wipes it.

BEFORE & AFTER

Wood Rectangle Electric blue Tints and shades Pattern


I'm assuming the blocks are assembled dry....
 

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Assemble using a little hydraulic oil for lubricating the spools and for protecting the flat surfaces between the sections.

If you're up for it, slit a short piece of 3/4" copper water line as a protector so you can chuck the spools into a lathe. Spin it up and sand where the X-ring rides with a strip of emory clothe. The emory cloth doesn't take off much stock, but it will take the peaks off of the rust pits and break the edges of the grooves left by the X-rings.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Thanks Tudor - should have clarified I was referring to assembling the blocks. Of course the spools and channel will be thoroughly wet with Hydraulic fluid when assembled.

I don't have access to a bench lathe as it's with my friend in Phoenix. Think I'll leave them smooth, albeit pitted, and see how it seals. Hoping the correct pressure in the control block will put less stress on the rings.

Also thinking about ordering a set of XX-o-rings to have on hand. McMaster says the 4 wiper grooves hold a bit more fluid than the X rings. I would think they might be a bit less robust than the single X (2-wiper) rings, but these are easy to change if needed.

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Tudor: You have any experience with these?
___

When inspecting the spools I found one had some damage where a bit of debris got jammed in the block channel, which gouged the first two wiper rings. Took a bore-scope and found the block with a corresponding gouge in the wall.


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Camera accessory Household hardware Nickel Tool Auto part


The chunk in the first ring is slightly proud of the ring. Going to take a fine jewelers file and my magnifying headset to carefully flush the piece with the wiper surface.

QUESTION:
Should I rotate the spool so this damage is on the opposite side of the block channel?
~ or ~
Leave it where it's mated to the groove?


Going to move this block/spool to the end where it operates the outriggers. They get the least use of the control blocks.

I may be getting a bit anal about this whole thing.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Received the last fitting to complete all changes to the whole hydraulic system. Now getting ready to reassemble.
Took an ultra-fine jewelers file to the spool bur and smoothed it to the surface. It's laying next to the spool. Was careful to not hit much area on either side, but it looks good and I can't feel it. The file is so fine it looks smooth, although the edges are serrated for scraping more material.

Compare to the photo above where you can clearly see the chunk outlined and sitting a half a hair proud.

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
The backhoe controls are back together and on the tractor. I haven't hooked it up yet because the dang gauge isn't reading pressure. I know there's pressure because the FEL is working, albeit a bit slow.
I don't get it... is there something simple I'm missing here?

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The IN/OUT quick-connectors for the BH are plugged into each other so the incoming pressure can be confirmed before setting the BH control bypass pressure.

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I had to kluge together the pressure gauge connection with fittings on-hand, but shouldn't make any difference.
It should read the output pressure from the regulator valve to the BH controls.


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Installed a T at the tank for the in-line regulator diverted flow from the pump.

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I need to know what the regulator is putting out to be sure it's set correctly at 1850 psi. The pump should be putting out 2600 psi @ 2800 rpm's and the over-pressure will be diverted to the tank. The backhoe runs on 1800 psi and want the incoming slightly higher to ensure adequate flow. I then will set the controls spool bypass to 1800 so it diverts any spikes or when it's not being used. The output should be 1800 to the FEL controller, where it's knocked down to 1500 psi. All over pressure is diverted to the tank.

I'm going to pull the pressure gauge off and check the passage for debris. It's a brand new gauge so it's possible it's bad from the box - but not likely.

This is really frustrating.... :mad:
 
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