[ricohman]

We finally had some snow last night and today I spent about an hour blowing snow with my 446. It went pretty well but there seem to be a couple of issues.
After working the tractor hard, it stalled a 3 or 4 of times (something the previous owners told me) but it would always fire back up and with a lower throttle setting it would get back to work. Maybe I am running the rpm to high?
Besides that issue I noticed a rattle/knocking sound coming from the front of the engine. Sounds like its behins the tin on the front of the engine. It doesn't always make the sound as its intermittent.
After I heard this sound I decided to blow another parking spot on the lawn and when I drove the tractor back into the garage the sound was gone.
I have no idea what is behind that shroud!
I wonder if waiting to pull the heads to decarbon is a good idea. I was going to wait for spring but I kind of think the stalling is related to engine temp and the crap inside the combustion chamber.

 

[Kbeitz]

The points can make your engine do this.
If they short out they will make your engine missfire sounding like a knock.

 

[ricohman]

The points are brand new. It kind of sounds to sharp for a spark knock.
Maybe a PTO bearing is piling up?

 

[ricohman]

May have figured a few things out. Seems that the fuel filter that was spliced into the line is laying horizontal and it can only fill halfway with fuel. That may explain why it stalled when I had it nose up, maybe. I am going to run some new line and mount the filter properly.
Its not rattling today so I have no idea what that was. I did pull a small mouse nest (or a dead bird) out from behind the right side tin over the cylinder head. Critters seem to like that area.

 

[ubber_gearhead99]

when I disassembled my k532 kohler for rebuild I found that the stator was loose and rocked back and fourth as the flywheel spun making a pinging noise.

 

[CP7]

Darryl the first thing to do on these Case tractors when you get one is change the hydraulic oil. The second and almost more important is to pull the shrouds of the engine and clean it. Since these things tend to leak oil, crap loves to stick to the engine. I've got a steam cleaner and it usually take a couple times to get them nice.
We'll pray for more snow for you (you can have it).
Have a safe and happy new year. :trink39:

 

[ricohman]

One last thought on the rattle/knock.
Are these engines designed as valve interference?
I was thinking that a sticky valve being shut by a piston could rattle. The rattle could also be a sticky valve being hit by the lifter or excesive clearance at the lifter.
I haven't changed the hydro oil in either of my 446's and I know it needs to be done. The "summer" tractor is going to be torn down for paint and I will do it at that time. Then in the summer, I could work on the "winter" tractor!

 

[ricohman]

One last thought on the rattle/knock.
Are these engines designed as valve interference?
I was thinking that a sticky valve being shut by a piston could rattle. The rattle could also be a sticky valve being hit by the lifter or excesive clearance at the lifter.
I haven't changed the hydro oil in either of my 446's and I know it needs to be done. The "summer" tractor is going to be torn down for paint and I will do it at that time. Then in the summer, I could work on the "winter" tractor!

Woops! Obviously the valve hitting a piston does not apply. And I hadn't even had a single new years eve drink when I wrote that!:drunkie:
Can't imagine what I'd write if I had a few.....

 

[ricohman]

Since I can't leave well enough alone...
I ran this thing for a while and found the rattle is kind of related to the position of the front PTO lever. So I tore it all down and found this.

New style PTO?

The friction disc is not fixed to either the PTO or the engine side. I assume its supposed to be fixed to one? The bearing spins but there is a lot of play and its a bit noisy.

In my boxes of parts I have one complete new PTO and half a dozen friction discs, washers bearings and so forth. I am going to intall the new PTO and since I have a few fans I will throw one of those on also since the original has one blade with a chip missing.

Then I will rebuild the original PTO. Are these friction discs glued on? I notice there are no holes in the replacements. Any tips on adjusting this? My engine manual seems to skip this step.

 

[bhildret]

Here is a link to the clutch manual:

http://www.mytractorforum.com/images/reference/CLUTCH_EZ_adjust_PTO_Clutch_manual.pdf

The disc is adhered to the pulley side ... all the details in the manual and/or instruction sheet in the clutch disc kits.

Follow the adjustment/build up to the T in the manual ...

Brian

 

[ricohman]

Thanks Brian!
But this won't be so simple. The new PTO is different. Even the threads turn the opposite way. Is this for an older engine? I can't use it for either of my tractors and thats to bad.

The bad bearing is in the pulley. The other two bearings seem ok.

I assume I need to keep this shim stack as it is for the correct clearance?

 

[boomers_influence]

ricohman
you should be able to use a lot of the parts from this clutch.
it appears to be a shim adjust style.
boomer

 

[CP7]

Sounds like there's your knock, a bad bearing. Replace it and glue that disk back on. I haven't done it but there was something about heating the pulley in the oven to get the glue to setup.
The early style clutch looks to be on a Kohler screen.
I told you you need to sell that new one and get your money back on the deal you made. :fing32:
Ask Brian what it's worth retail.

 

[ricohman]

Boomer, I have thought of that but it seems a shame to canabalize it for parts as its new. Maybe I could trade it to someone who needs it for other parts?

Brian, my adjusting nut is a one piece and the PDF shows a 2 pieces. Is this correct? You can see the nut and the washer behind in the pic above.
I also have one thicker spacer instead of three (#10) as shown in the PDF but then the PDF says whatever is present. I guess I have to trust the last guy who was in here.
The new bearings I have are 23245 but I have found they should be 29735?
Also, the packages with the new friction discs say they have a 12 month shelf life. Being as its 2 or 3 decades past should I forget about using these?

 

[bhildret]

The adjusting nut should absolutely be 2 pieces ... the inner which is threaded and the large hex outer which is more like a shell. You sure the inner isn't there? The large outer wouldn't stay there without it, I don't think.

The C23245 bearings were replaced with the C29735's more than 20 years ago ... some old bearings in those boxes ...

I can't really judge on the disc aging ... but one must assume they put a notice on them for a reason back then. Last summer Ingersoll introduced a new adhesive compound which is thoroughly modern and applied still with heat. I can't begin to guess what the chemistry was for these in the 70's and 80's. I have never seen a disk with a shelf life call out, though only been doing Ingersoll about 4 years now.

There was a variety of spacers/shims available ... .010", .050" and .100" ... just get the correct stack height according to the illustrations and instructions.

Now ... is that Onan shaft smooth to the touch? Do the bearings slide fore/aft on the shaft easily with a very light lube? The pics are hard to determine if the shaft is scored, or only miscolored a bit. The bearings must slide easily to engage/disengage the clutch.

Brian

 

[ricohman]

The adjusting nut should absolutely be 2 pieces ... the inner which is threaded and the large hex outer which is more like a shell. You sure the inner isn't there? The large outer wouldn't stay there without it, I don't think.

The C23245 bearings were replaced with the C29735's more than 20 years ago ... some old bearings in those boxes ...

I can't really judge on the disc aging ... but one must assume they put a notice on them for a reason back then. Last summer Ingersoll introduced a new adhesive compound which is thoroughly modern and applied still with heat. I can't begin to guess what the chemistry was for these in the 70's and 80's. I have never seen a disk with a shelf life call out, though only been doing Ingersoll about 4 years now.

There was a variety of spacers/shims available ... .010", .050" and .100" ... just get the correct stack height according to the illustrations and instructions.

Now ... is that Onan shaft smooth to the touch? Do the bearings slide fore/aft on the shaft easily with a very light lube? The pics are hard to determine if the shaft is scored, or only miscolored a bit. The bearings must slide easily to engage/disengage the clutch.

Brian

The nut is threaded on the inside. It does not come apart. Its also hex shped on the inside, so nothing could rotate. I will take a pic later today and post it. Maybe I am missing parts and need to place another order.

 

[ricohman]

Here are some pics of the nut.

 

[bhildret]

I had to do a double take and walk out to the parts bin ...

I bet if you tap that gently, you'll find it is 2 pieces, just like shown in the parts manuals. Maybe a PO has dressed it with loctite or something and will required some solvent ... can't quite tell from the pics ...

If it is thoroughly stuck/wedged/adhered in there, it would most certainly create adjustment problems.

Brian

 

[ricohman]

Thanks for all these tips Brian. It came apart after a few taps with a hammer. It was just gummed up I still don't see how these two pieces can turn independently as one is fixed inside the other. But once I assemble this it will be clear.
Got to bake some parts today. Or I may just use a high temp contact cement and clamp it.

 

[ricohman]

New bearings (3) and the new friction disc installed. The metal I had laying around isn't quite a 1/4 inch but it seemed to be ok.
I wonder what this date means? I used it anyway.

I adjusted the clutch exactly by the PDF Brian sent me. I set it to .007 and I realize the old setup must have been approaching 1/8 of an inch. Before the clutch was very easy to engage. Now you have to give the lever a push, like you really mean it. I can't imagine doing this with the hood on and the muffler in place.
Do you think setting up at the outside of the tolerance is a good idea? Or should I set it closer to the inside spec as it will wear some.
I noticed the bearing slide easy enough on the shaft but they are not tight fitting. All three have a bit of side to side ply. But I imagine that will disappear once they start spinning.