[ford boy]

hi i have two kohler related questions , my first question is i opened up the bottom end on a k241 parts engine of mine to see what shape the crank shaft is in and the crank is in good shape , anyway the question is will this crank fit in one of my k301 12hp engines or is it specific to the k241 model , now the second question is i also have a k181 that i was going to rebuild for my john deere 110 and i noticed that one of the 4 mounting holes on the oil pan is broken off and i dont have the broken off parts to weld it back together so should i buy a good used or new oil pan if the rest of the engine is in good shape , or should i wait and try to find a good complete k181 , thanks for any advise

 

[IHcubguy]

Question #1. K241-K301 the cranks are interchangable, same block size, the only diffrence is the bore.

Question #2 look for a used oil pan.

 

[ford boy]

Question #1. K241-K301 the cranks are interchangable, same block size, the only diffrence is the bore.

Question #2 look for a used oil pan.

ok thanks

 

[RED-85-Z51]

Actually, the K241 had a shorter stroke, as well as a smaller bore.

Bore X Stroke

K91--2.375 x 2.000
K161-2.938 x 2.500
K181-2.938 x 2.750
K241-3.251 x 2.875
K301-3.375 x 3.250
K321-3.500 x 3.250
K341-3.750 x 3.250

 

[IHcubguy]

Actually, the K241 had a shorter stroke, as well as a smaller bore.

Bore X Stroke

K91--2.375 x 2.000
K161-2.938 x 2.500
K181-2.938 x 2.750
K241-3.251 x 2.875
K301-3.375 x 3.250
K321-3.500 x 3.250
K341-3.750 x 3.250

Thanks for clarifying RED, Sorry ford boy my apologies....

 

[ford boy]

thanks red , thats fine cubguy , is it possable to use a k301 connecting rod to make up the different , i know thats most likely a stupid question but i thought i would ask , thanks guys

 

[RED-85-Z51]

thanks red , thats fine cubguy , is it possable to use a k301 connecting rod to make up the different , i know thats most likely a stupid question but i thought i would ask , thanks guys

The crankshaft journal is just a slightly diff size as I recall.

I know the rod length is considerably different. When I rebuilt my M10S (updated K241) the new Rod they sold me was way longer than what i took out of it, they sold me a K301 rod on accident.

Effictively, the crank, rod, and piston all work together by design to among many other things, set the compression height of the assembly.

A longer stroke on a shorter rod would pull the piston into the crankshaft at bottom dead center, so a longer rod is required, but then the piston would pop up out of the cylinder at top dead center, so they used a piston with a higher wrist pin (lower comp height)_ to compensate.

For instance, exact example.

K301 Piston and rod, notice the small distance between the bottom ring and the wrist pin.

Now on a K241

 

[ford boy]

The crankshaft journal is just a slightly diff size as I recall.

I know the rod length is considerably different. When I rebuilt my M10S (updated K241) the new Rod they sold me was way longer than what i took out of it, they sold me a K301 rod on accident.

Effictively, the crank, rod, and piston all work together by design to among many other things, set the compression height of the assembly.

A longer stroke on a shorter rod would pull the piston into the crankshaft at bottom dead center, so a longer rod is required, but then the piston would pop up out of the cylinder at top dead center, so they used a piston with a higher wrist pin (lower comp height)_ to compensate.

For instance, exact example.

K301 Piston and rod, notice the small distance between the bottom ring and the wrist pin.

Now on a K241

thanks for the info and photos , sounds like it might be possable but id rather not mix parts here and there in one of my engines , i think i will either rebuild this k241 and put it on the shelf ready to go or part it out since this is the only k241 i have , do you have any idea what i might ask for the crank if its in good shape , thanks

 

[RED-85-Z51]

thanks for the info and photos , sounds like it might be possable but id rather not mix parts here and there in one of my engines , i think i will either rebuild this k241 and put it on the shelf ready to go or part it out since this is the only k241 i have , do you have any idea what i might ask for the crank if its in good shape , thanks

If you mic it in 4 places and its not tapered, out of round, or scuffed, and within tolerances...75 dollars is about going rate for a good clean crank with a straight PTO.

 

[ford boy]

ok , when you say straight pto , you mean the pto end of the crank right? , thanks

 

[RED-85-Z51]

yep, 1", 1 1/8", etc...all useful on various models. Tapered cranks are less desirable, along with externally threaded cranks.

 

[ford boy]

yep, 1", 1 1/8", etc...all useful on various models. Tapered cranks are less desirable, along with externally threaded cranks.

yeah this one is a straight pto crank i think 1/1/8'' , right now i am fighting with one of two set screws holding the pto pulley on , for some reason this one won't budge , have you ever drilled out one you could not free up? or will that damage the crank , thanks for all the help

 

[RED-85-Z51]

Its a bugger for sure, seems like they either are stuck or strip out.

If it wont free up, its drillable, just use a small bit to make the pilot hole, then a larger bit to finish it off. If you dont care to save the pulley, drilling is easier.

The crank is hardened steel its harder to drill but it can be damaged if you bear into it.

If its the set screw over the key way, you really dont have to worry about hitting the crank.

 

[ford boy]

Its a bugger for sure, seems like they either are stuck or strip out.

If it wont free up, its drillable, just use a small bit to make the pilot hole, then a larger bit to finish it off. If you dont care to save the pulley, drilling is easier.

The crank is hardened steel its harder to drill but it can be damaged if you bear into it.

If its the set screw over the key way, you really dont have to worry about hitting the crank.

yes i believe it is the screw over the key way , i remember one of the two screws came loose really easey but i will check before drilling , thanks for all the help

 

[IHcubguy]

your part number "should be" A-235406-S, 3 25/32" pto extension end with a 3 1/8" 1/4" keyway 1 1/8" dia. once you remove the pulley, check these numbers. useful when selling a crankshaft. $75.00 seams reasonable.

 

[ford boy]

your part number "should be" A-235406-S, 3 25/32" pto extension end with a 3 1/8" 1/4" keyway 1 1/8" dia. once you remove the pulley, check these numbers. useful when selling a crankshaft. $75.00 seams reasonable.

thanks for the info , i will rite down those numbers when i get the crank out

 

[IHcubguy]

Use this chart once you remove the crank, to determine if the crank is within the wear limits. http://www.yetmans.mb.ca/kohler/page4_5/page4_5.html

 

[ford boy]

Use this chart once you remove the crank, to determine if the crank is within the wear limits. http://www.yetmans.mb.ca/kohler/page4_5/page4_5.html

i just thought of one more question , is there any way from the outside of the engine to find out if a k series has balancer gears or not , when i was inside of the engine i did't see any , i have herd that if said engine has a bolt on dip stick tube then it has balancer gears , and if said engine has a pressed in dip stick tube then it has no balancer gears , i don't know if that is true or not just thought i would ask , thanks

 

[thirdroc17]

One other consideration. The K-241 and K301 pistons are different weights. If you start to interchange parts from the two engines, you'll have to get it balanced.

The K-321, K-341 and K-361 cranks and rods are interchangeable, as the pistons all weigh the same, rod length, weight, and stroke all the same. The two larger engines have interchangeable pistons as well.

All of them have the same 1.5" crank journal.

 

[ford boy]

One other consideration. The K-241 and K301 pistons are different weights. If you start to interchange parts from the two engines, you'll have to get it balanced.

The K-321, K-341 and K-361 cranks and rods are interchangeable, as the pistons all weigh the same, rod length, weight, and stroke all the same. The two larger engines have interchangeable pistons as well.

All of them have the same 1.5" crank journal.

thats the reason why i am going to either part this k241 out or rebuild it and have it on hand if i need it , like i said above i don't want to mix parts in one of my own engines and i don't really want to mix parts on a engine i am going to sell either , on another note heres a photo of the broken mounting flange on the k181s oil pan