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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am looking at a B1700 Kubota 4WD, HST, Loader, 60" deck. The tractor has 1247 hrs on it, the owner does not know how old it is as it was left when he bought the house. The tag on the Rops has a serial # of 10055 if that means anything. My concerns are when you start it, it puffs a little black smoke...and when you increse the rpm's it also puffs some black smoke, is that usual or something to be concerned with? Also in the back the 3-point you can raise and lower with your hand, you can not raise or lower with the lever, when you raise it with your hand, there is a clink noise..and you can push it down again with you hand again..that concerns me. There is some dripping underneath the tractor which he says he overfilled something and that is probably why...the HST fluid looks new but the oil is very dark, the air filter is dirty...but the 3-point has a yellow plug where I believe you fill that, and it is dry in there???? What does this all operate because everything else seems to work, the bucked, pto's etc...but the 3-point has some issues. They are asking 5700 for the unit but I am wondering do I pursue and try to get some off or walk??? Just not sure how much could be wrong with the 3-point???? Thanks for all your help guys
 

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welcome aboard buzter. The B1700 is a very good little tractor and it looks like you would be getting the necessary implements with it. The MMM & FEL are valuable implements now that they aren't made anymore.
1247 hrs isn't that much in the big scheme of things in that these machines were designed and built to go 1000's of hrs before needing rebuilt. according to www.tractordata.com they were built from 1995 - 1999 so it's not that old at all.
re. black smoke at startup. Black smoke generally indicates a "rich" condition and is not unusual at all for a diesel to puff black smoke at startup and/or when placed under load as long as it's momentary. A dirty air cleaner could also contribute to an overly rich condition and if the tractor has set up for a long time in a shed or barn I'd recommend to inspect the air cleaner/ductwork to make sure some little mices haven't built a nest in there. Otherwise a momentary puff of black smoke should be considered SOP.

re. 3PH. That doesn't sound good. Is the FEL a Kubota FEL? If so does it have quick connects and appear to be easily mounted and dismounted?
The reason I ask is that the tractors hydraulics are plumbed in "series" and in most FEL installations the hydraulic pressure leaves the hydraulic block, routes to the FEL then back to the 3PH then back to the sump. If theres a problem with the way the FEL is plumbed it "could" effect the 3ph. Course if the FEL works that would indicate that it is probably plumbed correctly.
I'd also recommed to check the linkage from the 3ph lever to where it goes into the HST housing. A loose/disconnected linkage could cause a similar problem.
depending upon the model, it's not unusual to be able to manually lift some 3ph's a couple 6 inches or so but it should encounter resistance the higher you lift it. Most 3ph's in the CUT have the lift piston integral to the tranny. Usually it's accessable through a plate on the top of the tranny just under the seat. The piston will have one or two rings for sealing it in the cylinder and have a connecting rod that connects to the upper lift arms. It's really not "major" surgury to access it and repair it but I guess it could be for those that aren't mechanically inclined. It's possible that the connecting rod is broken, disconnect and/or some mechanical problem within the cylinder. It's also possible that theres a problem w/the 3ph control lever assembly also. Just keep in mind that it is repairable and if you don;t feel confident in tearing into it you should consider asking around a few shops for estimates. This "could" effect the pirce of the tractor IMHO :D
Lastly, the 3ph lever/assembly is also what lifts and lowers the MMM. Does the MMM lift via the lever? If so it would appear that the lift rods that connect between the 3ph's upper lift arms and lower lift arms are disconnected, maybe perhaps so the lower arms don't lift and lower along w/the MMM. Check that also.

A few drips under it aren't major either UNLESS it's from a crack. Seals will eventually leak and are designed to be replaced but a crack in the engine block and/or HST housing could lead to an expensive repair. Cracks aren't very common on Kubota CUT's but due to the environments they may be operated in one can't totally rule it out without tracing out to the source of whats leaking.

re. dark engine oil. part of the job of diesel engine oil os to suspend soot and other byproducts of combustion and this will darken the oil very quickly. Some engines take longer than otehrs to darken. When new my BX23's engine would go a couple months before it got really dark and now it'll darkedn with a couple days. This is normal and doesn't effect the lubricity of the oil, just makes it dark :D

Depending on the price, and condsidering the implements that are with it, it may be worth taking it and haveing the 3ph repaired.

Good luck
Dave
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Dave,

thanks for the great help. It seems that the 3pt lever is hooked up and the linkage is moving on the outside of the case. But like I stated, I can take the 3pt bars(?) and move them up and down with my hand and when you lift them all the way up there is a clink sound...I am mechanically inclined..with cars...havent worked or even owned a tractor as of yet...but If I had a manuel, I think I could work on it possibly?? Do you think this would not be a big ticket fix issue if I did it my self?

The FEL works great moved it up and down tipped the bucket etc..the mower deck is not on so I do not know if the raise lower works for that or even know how to see if it does...when we were moving the lever for the 3pt...I dont remember seeing anything move underneath.

I am leary of getting it as they don't know much about it, they are more or less in the money so they use it and use it...if it breaks then take it in...so I just wonder how much care was taken with it...but I have heard these little tractors are a tank...

On the rear of the tractor there is a yellow plug...which I belive is for the 3pt...I don't see any fluid in there...is the dipstick below your rt foot when you sit on the tractor for that? Also what fluid goes in there and what does it all operate...the FEL and the 3pt??

Thank you so much for your help
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I forgot to mention that the air filter is quite dirty also so that could be the black smoke issue...and the shaker screen on the front had alot of weeds in it...
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I got to look at the tractor today again and I got the 3point to work, if you increse the RPM then it will hold pressure on it and raise and lower...but it goes from 1-8 and it does not raise it a little at a time like the 1-8, it just kinda raises...then about goes all the way down...so that could maybe be some o-rings possibly...is it easy to rebuild those pumps?
 

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Thats good it works when you give it some rpm.
It's not unusual to have to raise the rpm for it to lift some weight and with the engine running it should hold it steady.
I'm not sure what type of 3ph control that model has. Considering the yr I'm tempted to suggest that its a 1/4" control but I'm not sure. Generally when you have numbered graduations next to the evel tha twuld indicate position control. Kubota considers that a premium type feature and it's possible it wa an option on that HST model but I dunno. If it is either a 1/4" or position control type 3ph there will be a feedback rod with spring loaded adjustments that can be adjusted to make it function as designed. If it's neither and is just a std 3ph, it will either go up or down and the lever will have a neutral or centered position and the 3ph should stay put when the lever is centered.

If the FEL seems to work fast and has power I would suspect that the pump is good and that you'll need to test the 3ph control and/or the 3ph lift piston to determine which may need repair/adjustment.
Perhaps someone will happen along with more indepth knowledge on this particular model. You may need to search for an owners manual, a parts manual and a work shop manual (WSM) if you paln on wrenching iot yourself. Generally you'll have to buy the WSM from a dealer and perhaps even the owners manual but there are several sources for a free parts manual. www.tractorsmart.com can provide you one and one of our sponsors www.messicks.com used to provide an on-line parts manual w/pricing.

I would suspect that the HST tranny uses Kubota UDT fluid. If it is low that would cause slow and/or inconsistant 3ph operation but I'd fill to the marks on the dip stick.
If the previous owners don;t know and no one steps up here, a call to a Kubota dealer may get you some answers.
Good luck and let us know
Dave
 

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I owned a B1700 that I purchased new in 1997, I only put 400hrs on it, then upgraded to a similar B series 2410 when i wanted to add a FEL. I now have 1300hrs on the 2410. This tractor I have kept well maintained, oil changes at regular intervals, new hydrolic filters etc. It has always blew a puff of black smoke when first started cold, and will puff black smoke when I throttle up quickly. My air filter looks dirty shortly after I install a fresh one, so as long as it doesn't look neglected dirty, I don't think that should be a major concern.

Check the hydrolic control knob between your heals, if it gets closed off too much, it will affect the performance of the 3Pt, also, there is a small rod, connected to the right 3pt upper lifting arm, to set the travel of the arms. in the past, the set bolts for mine have come loose and allowed the rod to fall out of possition, if it completley falls out, it will prevent the contol arms from moving.

If you raise the lift lever all the way past 8, you will notice that the speed of the tractor will slow. If there is no noticible difference when the lever is at 5, or all the way to the top, it could be the hydrolic relief valve is stuck open.

As for leaking under the tractor, check the seal plate around the mid mount PTO, if the hydrolic system pressures up for what ever reason it pushes this plate loose off the PTO body, and will leak oil, All of it, if it comes right off. This happened to me a couple times, and I was able to fix it by simpily tapping the Plate back in place.

The yellow cap if for adding oil to the Hydro system, (could they have found a more inconvienient place) You won't see pooled oil looking in the cap. The yellow dipstick at your right heal is to check this level.
 
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